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I like the bikes themselves, but the pilots look a tad derpy.
If they were actually sitting and not doing that weird half stand I think they'd look better

I think the tomb blades look great, really effective models, especially when souped up with exta gubbins like shields, vanes and scopes.

I also rather like tomb blades. The only bother with them is that they take forever to assemble. I got like 15 of them and it took ages to finish them.

Rules wise they performed rather well for me so far in 6th and 7th. I usually use em without any additional gear. Once you upgrade them they become way too expensive in my opinion.

God In Action wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah what's up with just the picture of the Deciever and no rules.

Yeah, what kind of a person leaks pictures of models from a hardcopy WD, without the rules?!

GW itself would post pictures of just a picture from the hardcopy without rules.

Fluffwise, Immortals have always been "elite warriors" and the warriors were the made from the non-military trained individuals. I guess that is why warriors have the same stats as the elite warriors of the Imperium (who are also in the troop slot of their respective codex).

I don't expect Immortals to move to elites or to change too much. Immortals are currently 3 more points a model than Blood Angel Tac squads... then the Immortal could see a bit of a points drop since they don't have the options that Marines have.

This is the reason I don't think that they will move... in the Core of the Decurion Detachment you have a HQ, Elite, a FA, and a HS choice already. Rather than having 2 elites, it makes more sense to have 3 troops.

Warriors on the other hand... well, they have better than IG attack and shooting but the same armor save. Hopefully GW will make the warriors significantly cheaper than... say Space Wolves Scouts (who have the same base stats, but many more options and special rules). Cheap enough to make running a Mephrit Silver Tide possible in a 1500 point game.

Isn't the Deceiver just a C'tan shard now, rules wise? There has been no generic C'tan model; that's what the Nightbringer and the Deceiver are used for now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't the Deceiver just a C'tan shard now, rules wise? There has been no generic C'tan model; that's what the Nightbringer and the Deceiver are used for now.

No, not in the new codex. The Deceiver and Nightbringer are specifically mentioned by name in the Reclamation Detachment.

Maybe we shouldn't read too much into that yet - they're specifically mentioned in the model gallery in the current codex too, but they don't get unique statlines.

The Gallery isn't rules, but the Reclamation Detachment is.

 Ghaz wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't the Deceiver just a C'tan shard now, rules wise? There has been no generic C'tan model; that's what the Nightbringer and the Deceiver are used for now.

No, not in the new codex. The Deceiver and Nightbringer are specifically mentioned by name in the Reclamation Detachment.

Maybe it's a configuration?
Some of the powers in the 5th ed book were basically modified versions of the 3rd ed C'tan powers.

The C'tan Shard of the Deceiver and C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer are listed as actual units in the Decurion Detachment.

So the Deceiver and Nightbringer get their own rules again, and we get to make our own shards, sounds like a win to me.

I just hope it means we'll get a generic C'tan Shard kit as well. I fething hate the Nightbringer and Deceiver models.

 Anpu-adom wrote:


don't expect Immortals to move to elites or to change too much. Immortals are currently 3 more points a model than Blood Angel Tac squads... then the Immortal could see a bit of a points drop since they don't have the options that Marines have.

(...)

Warriors on the other hand... well, they have better than IG attack and shooting but the same armor save. Hopefully GW will make the warriors significantly cheaper than... say Space Wolves Scouts (who have the same base stats, but many more options and special rules). Cheap enough to make running a Mephrit Silver Tide possible in a 1500 point game.

The last time I did some mathhammering, necron warriors turned out as resilient and shooty as space marines with boltguns, and if you spent the same points on immortals instead, you got on average the same resilience and firepower.

Still, I think a small point drop is likely (though I would prefer a stat upgrade and a point increase TBH, collecting palayble army would be faster then).

 adamsouza wrote:
So the Deceiver and Nightbringer get their own rules again, and we get to make our own shards, sounds like a win to me.

Well, if by "make" you mean "roll on a random cinematic table", then yes.

 skybax wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:


don't expect Immortals to move to elites or to change too much. Immortals are currently 3 more points a model than Blood Angel Tac squads... then the Immortal could see a bit of a points drop since they don't have the options that Marines have.

(...)

Warriors on the other hand... well, they have better than IG attack and shooting but the same armor save. Hopefully GW will make the warriors significantly cheaper than... say Space Wolves Scouts (who have the same base stats, but many more options and special rules). Cheap enough to make running a Mephrit Silver Tide possible in a 1500 point game.

The last time I did some mathhammering, necron warriors turned out as resilient and shooty as space marines with boltguns, and if you spent the same points on immortals instead, you got on average the same resilience and firepower.

Still, I think a small point drop is likely (though I would prefer a stat upgrade and a point increase TBH, collecting palayble army would be faster then).

All true, Skybax. Currently, we are getting a 1 point discount but we don't have the cheap special/heavy weapons, access to chapter tactics, cheap transports or They Shall Show No Fear. I would like stat increases, but I don't see them as likely (especially between books that are only 4 years apart).

The little mathhammering I've done on the rumored change to Gauss makes our anti-tank the same on a Landraider... but doubles the efficiency for each AV less. That is HUGE. It would be almost too much to hope for the same against armor saves, as giving Gauss Instant Death on a 6 to wound most models would be way too good (even if it matches the fluff of the gun). Maybe the cost of our troops will stay roughly the same if the change is made to Gauss.

I dont think this has been posted here yet...

http://imgur.com/D3tnybN

liquidskyys wrote:
I dont think this has been posted here yet...

http://imgur.com/D3tnybN

Thanks. And.... sigh.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, they just fixed the 'TC'tan is OP' problem.

Wait wait wait sooo its confirmed that all they want to do is make pew pew noises? well that explains EVERYTHING

Sheeesh some pretty big changes there.

So with the Ctan you pick a target and nasty gak just happens?

I don't buy their reasoning. Lots of units in 40k are hard to control, but that don't have random attacks. Silly.

I don't love the idea, but it could work as long as half of the powers aren't 12" range and/or flamer template.

I don't want to be 36" inches away and roll the flamer power.

 Ratius wrote:
Sheeesh some pretty big changes there.

So with the Ctan you pick a target and nasty gak just happens?

Im thinking no.

more like

1: Pick a target
2: roll dice - (pray to get the attack that can hurt the target) (OR even reach target as docdoom77 said)
3: put money in the swear jar

If they balance out the powers nastiness wise and have a few that can actually backfire as the capricious nature of the Ctan line suggests, then it might work.

But if its a faceroll to pick a Ctan shard, I cannot see any point.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I don't buy their reasoning. Lots of units in 40k are hard to control, but that don't have random attacks. Silly.

I don't love the idea, but it could work as long as half of the powers aren't 12" range and/or flamer template.

I don't want to be 36" inches away and roll the flamer power.

Its supported by their fluff in the current codex though.

liquidskyys wrote:
I dont think this has been posted here yet...
http://imgur.com/D3tnybN

Because we don't want to read it.

If I target my T-C'tan with Tank Hunter from Zhandrekh.
Then move it closer to a Baneblade-chassis.
Then shoot it with an attack that statistically kills it at average.
The last thing I would freaking want is to roll an entire other ability that is aimed at wiping out mass groups of Space Marines.

 Ratius wrote:
If they balance out the powers nastiness wise and have a few that can actually backfire as the capricious nature of the Ctan line suggests, then it might work.

But if its a faceroll to pick a Ctan shard, I cannot see any point.

Given the names of the attacks in the image I'm guessing you can get a "sneak peak" of the powers by looking up the Trans C'tan in Escalation.

What fracking garbage. I was excited to finally put down my Shards on the table (have Nightbringer, was thinking of buying Deceiver, have T-C'tan with Vault) but this? This is crap. "Oh, you don't have Psychic powers to roll on random? Here, have random shooting each turn!"

If the powers aren't explicitly fantastic, or the C'Tan don't have something else baseline to make them worth bringing, no thanks. I play Daemons and get enough randomness from there, Necrons are supposed to be the army where I know exactly what I'm bringing and can play them tactically each time.

Well the Ctan and Shards baseline stats are pretty decent anyways.

And inr elation to randomness, the rest of the Cron army is reliable, very reliable so it does add a certain flavour to the Star Gods.

Remains to be seen the final implementation however.

GW Game Design 101: if anything fails, add randomness!

Eh... every time I think "oh yeah the C'Tan stat lines aren't bad" and bring one, they die before they get into combat because 6" is not good in the current meta. Probably better now with the Veil, but still.

The stat line is good, but the cost is insane. If that gets toned down, I'll try them out. If they stay in the same range, ugh.

The only way this could possibly work is if:

You roll the random power at the start of your turn

The range is only limited to line of sight (unlimited rng)

Powers have dual profiles for both regular targets and targets with AV.

These provisions would allow tactical flexibility. Everyone is in range, everything can potentially be affected.