Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We're Necrons. We really don't need to worry about destroying enemy tanks...unless of course Gauss and Entropic Strike are gone, in which case we should start worrying I guess.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

If Ctans once again have 12" movement,

Once again?

Meant having it like Trans CTan already do, my mistake.

Oh if only!

 adamsouza wrote:
I'm going to use my C'tan shard to shoot whatever is within 24" and I want dead.

Good luck with that, because its abilities on average are not excellent at killing anything. no wait its got a 66% chance of rolling a power that is decent against T5 4+sv or worse models and av10-11 vehicles, so I guess if you were struggling to kill guardsmen/fire warriors and land speeders at 24" with your necrons then this is a miracle for you.

otherwise. only 1/6 of its abilities is good at killing T6 3+sv MC's, only 2/6 of its abilities are good at killing MEQ and 1/6 of its powers are good at killing AV13+. if the c'tan is 130 points then yeah I guess its worth a buy if youre really struggling against 4+sv units and light vehicles, but something tells me its not going to be 130 points.

 adamsouza wrote:
Wait, you guys completely convinced me C'tans are crap. Let's not field any

1. Antimatter Meteor -S8 AP3 lg blast
Clearly a terrible power. Battle cannon hits are just uselss against everything

When you need to take out a vehicle, yes it is terrible.

2. Cosmic Fire - S6 AP4 lg blast ignores cover
Clearly a terrible power. Sure it frags every horde unit in the game, (jinking units too right ?) but it can't crack open Landraiders, so feth using it.

Also mediocre agaist MEQ, TEQ, and multi wound units, so yeah, pretty bad

3. Seismic Assault - S6 AP4 assault 10 strikedown
Another one of those terrible anti infantry powers.

See above

4. Sky of Falling Stars - S7 AP4 assault 3 lg blast barrage
3 Large S7 Blast Markers ? Dammit, I might accidently wipe entire units off the board while being uselss against Land Raiders

Again, against vehicles its not so good.

5. Time's Arrow - SD AP1 precision shot
Dammit, that 1 target that I pick has a 16% of surviving

Only great power, and whoops, only a 1/6 chance of getting it.

6. Transdimensional Thunderbolt -S9 AP1 Tesla
Grrr...Arrrgh now I have a great antitank shot that doesn't mow down entire squads.

In what universe is a single S9 attack good against anything?

 adamsouza wrote:
Wait, you guys completely convinced me C'tans are crap. Let's not field any

1. Antimatter Meteor -S8 AP3 lg blast
Clearly a terrible power. Battle cannon hits are just uselss against everything

2. Cosmic Fire - S6 AP4 lg blast ignores cover
Clearly a terrible power. Sure it frags every horde unit in the game, (jinking units too right ?) but it can't crack open Landraiders, so feth using it.

3. Seismic Assault - S6 AP4 assault 10 strikedown
Another one of those terrible anti infantry powers.

4. Sky of Falling Stars - S7 AP4 assault 3 lg blast barrage
3 Large S7 Blast Markers ? Dammit, I might accidently wipe entire units off the board while being uselss against Land Raiders

5. Time's Arrow - SD AP1 precision shot
Dammit, that 1 target that I pick has a 16% of surviving

6. Transdimensional Thunderbolt -S9 AP1 Tesla
Grrr...Arrrgh now I have a great antitank shot that doesn't mow down entire squads.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of people's complaints.

Yes, the powers themselves are pretty good. If you could pick when to use them. You really don't see why people are complaining when they could aim at a horde unit and get a one shot SD gun? Woo yeah...I got one guy. Or aim at a tank and get a S6 gun that might not do anything at all? Yes they'd be awesome if you knew it was going to do anything.

Random charts do not a good game make.

Four anti horde, three anti single target and one of the single target ones can pop a special model out of the horde whilst the horde ones are all pretty high strength so will probably wound most things...

Sucks against tough vehicles, but I'm not seeing that as a problem in a Necron list.


Weird that rolling 6 is the worst result, but whatever.

My issue isn't that the powers are bad (they are actually fantastic), nor that C'tan are doomed to be useless (having gained 55 points and MCs being fairly undercosted in other recent codices means they have a good shot of being awesome - I'm betting the deceiver returns to having grand illusion for example) but rather that the mechanic itself is bad.

If we could pick powers, C'tan would be OP as hell. A STR D shot every turn, or 3 barrages? Are you crazy? That would be totally broken. Even picking before targeting would be questionably OP. That's why it's bad - in lieu of attempting to balance the game, they just made a bunch of broken crazy crap which is a mix of AT and anti infantry, then made you roll totally randomly. Do you see the issue? Some games you'll still be crazy op. In others, you'll do nothing. It's bad writing and doesn't deserve being defended.

Not that I'm holding out hope for C'tan being good generally as they never have been, but this isn't the deal breaker - it's just a bad mechanic.

Anything else besides the c'tans powers?

jms40k wrote:
This isn't really a tactics forum. I'm sure when the book drops, we can argue ad infinitum over the merit of certain units. Right now I'm just salivating for more information!

So we're not allowed to discuss rumoured powers in the rumour-thread?

 adamsouza wrote:
I'm going to use my C'tan shard to shoot whatever is within 24" and I want dead.

So you are going to kill vehicles with your S6 attacks?
Or infantry with your S9/D-attacks?

So....looks like I'm not using the shard. But what else is new?
I do wonder what the stat line and close combat abilities will be. Something that costs more then a riptide should be pretty good, right?
Not holding my breath

Well, I couldn't be more sick of talking about the C'tan, so let's change topic. What are your biggest hopes and fears of the codex? Is there something you really want to be good? Things you would rather be worse?

For me, I want to see what the monolith is like. I'm expecting it to be bad but just how bad could it be? Also, I really love Szeras so I hope he's buffed to the realms of playable. Beyond that, my only real fear is that we're left with too little to cope with flyers and MCs, so get left in the dust. I kinda want to make a mostly immortal army too...

I'm hoping the Particle Whip on the Monolith is longer range like it used to be.

I'm worried about gauss and entropic strike and what if any change they will have.

I'm hoping no change but who knows.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Yes, the powers themselves are pretty good. If you could pick when to use them. You really don't see why people are complaining when they could aim at a horde unit and get a one shot SD gun? Woo yeah...I got one guy. Or aim at a tank and get a S6 gun that might not do anything at all?

That shot murders large numbers of Horde on a roll of 1-4, and a single model on 5-6. I am not going to cry if it comes up 5 or 6, just like I don't cry now when I miss. I'll probably get animated and tell me opponent " I murdered the HELL out of that Chaos Cultist. He's nothing but a fine mist" on a 5 or 6 and have a good laugh about it.

The C'tan Chart does alright up against AV12, and has a 50% chance doing well against AV 14.

-----

No news on Scarabs sounds like good news.

Crypteks and Lords getting bumped up to 2 wounds sounds fantastic.

Point reductions on Lychguard and Praetorians will lead to me actually fielding them.

Eyjio wrote:
Well, I couldn't be more sick of talking about the C'tan, so let's change topic. What are your biggest hopes and fears of the codex? Is there something you really want to be good? Things you would rather be worse?

For me, I want to see what the monolith is like. I'm expecting it to be bad but just how bad could it be? Also, I really love Szeras so I hope he's buffed to the realms of playable. Beyond that, my only real fear is that we're left with too little to cope with flyers and MCs, so get left in the dust. I kinda want to make a mostly immortal army too...

I really want immortals to be great, as well as tomb blades. I also want to see different lists that include other thing besides minimal warriors with CCBs and annihilation barges with night scythes

The more I read, the more and more it looks like Necrons are getting a massive nerf almost everywhere, and I'll be selling my stuff.

One would have almost hoped (well as a Necron-only player) that GW would go: "Oh gak we're losing so much money. Bring back the Codex Creep so people buy again."

 RivenSkull wrote:
The more I read, the more and more it looks like Necrons are getting a massive nerf almost everywhere, and I'll be selling my stuff.

One would have almost hoped (well as a Necron-only player) that GW would go: "Oh gak we're losing so much money. Bring back the Codex Creep so people buy again."

What exactly have you been reading?

JuniorRS13 wrote:
I also want to see different lists that include other thing besides minimal warriors with CCBs and annihilation barges with night scythes

God yes, that's a been absolutely infuriating me. Makes it abnormally hard to get decent discussion online because there's such a mono-focus on that bland, flavourless build.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thokt wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
The more I read, the more and more it looks like Necrons are getting a massive nerf almost everywhere, and I'll be selling my stuff.

One would have almost hoped (well as a Necron-only player) that GW would go: "Oh gak we're losing so much money. Bring back the Codex Creep so people buy again."

What exactly have you been reading?

Yeah, I've not heard many nerfs at all in these rumors. Almost buffing across the board.

 adamsouza wrote:
That shot murders large numbers of Horde on a roll of 1-4, and a single model on 5-6. I am not going to cry if it comes up 5 or 6, just like I don't cry now when I miss. I'll probably get animated and tell me opponent " I murdered the HELL out of that Chaos Cultist. He's nothing but a fine mist" on a 5 or 6 and have a good laugh about it.
The C'tan Chart does alright up against AV12, and has a 50% chance doing well against AV 14.
-----
No news on Scarabs sounds like good news.
Crypteks and Lords getting bumped up to 2 wounds sounds fantastic.
Point reductions on Lychguard and Praetorians will lead to me actually fielding them.

Looking forward to all of this!
Also good attitude to have there! If it kills something, great. If it kills a lot awesome. If it misses entirely well, better luck next time.

 RivenSkull wrote:
The more I read, the more and more it looks like Necrons are getting a massive nerf almost everywhere, and I'll be selling my stuff.

Massive buffs everywhere.
Except for C'tans.
My Deceiver and three Transcendent C'tans are now useless.
Way to go GW! Luckily I bought two of them from China so I only lost 150 euro instead of 375.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
"The C'tan are not generalized into one generic unit like some people are concerned. Each gets its own entry and costs around the same point costs of a Land Raider, with the Transcendent costing an extra 10pts which also carries with it an extra wound giving it a 5 wounds. I would of expected a higher toughness, but S7 and T7 is all around. Transcendent has an additional Strength.

Powers of the C'tan work like this; Pick your target and then roll for power.

All of them share some powers of eternal warrior, and fearless, Immune to natural law- ignoring terrain, and Necrodermis- 4++ and exploding on death-any models within d6" suffer S4 AP1 hits.

The biggest differences are in their remaining powers
Nightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership

Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.

Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain."

Ah, just like the old codex, Nightbringer being way worse than The Deceiver!

I mean, really, AP2 wounds sounds nice. But when you see that most of the time, that's about 1 or 2 wounds. Woohoo.

Am I the only one who actually wanted a generic ctan shard model???

What I read from latest natfka post was this:
Blah blah still T7 W4 4++ blah blah

Aka something which will never be worth 240 points, even if you could choose the STR d shot every turn.

Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

 Nilok wrote:
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
"The C'tan are not generalized into one generic unit like some people are concerned. Each gets its own entry and costs around the same point costs of a Land Raider, with the Transcendent costing an extra 10pts which also carries with it an extra wound giving it a 5 wounds. I would of expected a higher toughness, but S7 and T7 is all around. Transcendent has an additional Strength.

Powers of the C'tan work like this; Pick your target and then roll for power.

All of them share some powers of eternal warrior, and fearless, Immune to natural law- ignoring terrain, and Necrodermis- 4++ and exploding on death-any models within d6" suffer S4 AP1 hits.

The biggest differences are in their remaining powers
Nightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership

Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.

Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain."

I had a feeling that it'd turn out like this, with the T-C'tan turned into just another sort of shard.

I like that they made them all different, Nightbringer more killing infantry, Deceiver being more tricky, and the Trans being... I dunno, looks like he's just supposed to Deep Strike in and be scary.

Only 4++ still is bad. Eternal Warrior is nice.

Seems kinda silly that they made the Trans C'tan a normal MC Elite and yet you can still only buy the model as part of the Tesseract Vault kit.

Eyjio wrote:


Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

3rd The Deceiver was absolutely brutal and one of the best models in the game.

Nightbringer might be interesting with the God Shackle/Conclave of the Burning One from Exterminatus, if Crypteks can still take Veil. Deep strike in, shooting power, Gaze of Death, T8. Will have to see what Crypteks are like.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Eyjio wrote:


Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

3rd The Deceiver was absolutely brutal and one of the best models in the game.

Those were the days...

though now I'm curious if the named shards can be affected by the God Shackle, regain some of their former glory.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Eyjio wrote:


Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

3rd The Deceiver was absolutely brutal and one of the best models in the game.

Those were the days...

though now I'm curious if the named shards can be affected by the God Shackle, regain some of their former glory.

Of course they can, since there are no more generic C'tan.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Eyjio wrote:


Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

3rd The Deceiver was absolutely brutal and one of the best models in the game.

To me, it was a massive chunk of non-Necron points which was better spent on a monolith. But honestly, I'm not going to debate the finer points of 3e Necrons in a 7e thread, especially when the entirety of 3e balance was so broken anyway.

I don't think this is particularly believable, given the Tran is said to be no stronger for being a mass of combined shards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Eyjio wrote:


Aka C'tan still bad, as they always have been. I'm not even upset, just brutally disappointed. Still waiting for guy from tg to post scans before deciding whether to believe that such a colossal blunder could be made, but it does seem like something GW would do.

3rd The Deceiver was absolutely brutal and one of the best models in the game.

Those were the days...

though now I'm curious if the named shards can be affected by the God Shackle, regain some of their former glory.

Of course they can, since there are no more generic C'tan.

Wording is "1 C'tan Shard", so they may have messed up that RAW.