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 lord_blackfang wrote:
MSS grant conditional Fear?

A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

It only works in a challenge, so you have to have someone to challenge and then if your roll is successful the whole enemy unit is flipping out cuz their HQ is scared.

col_impact wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Yup, I'm interested in the wargear they can select.

changemod wrote:
Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.
Against small arms fire, they're tougher.
Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.
The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.

You mistyped "plasma and grav".
It's just like MSS, which in theory is better.. unless you are playing against Fearless/ATSKNF.
It's as if the Emperor himself wrote the Codex.

How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.

It also doesn't entirely nullify attacks, just makes it harder to hit (easier to be hit), and it is used in a challenge now, so in combats without a character, useless

col_impact wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
The point was more that it's stronger against nearly everything except for two weapon-types which are spammed by one specific faction

col_impact wrote:
How do you figure MSS is better? MSS added hits (and potentially really awesome hits) and nullified attacks. The new MSS just nullifies attacks.

Because Fear applies to the entire unit, despite the weird wording it seems to have.
That could actually be good if some Factions in this game (Yes, we all know who I am talking about) didn't have the habit of ignoring entire gameplay-rules.

Pretty sure that almost everyone will argue that the fear doesn't spread to the unit. If it did, hell yes.

Why wouldn't it?

MSS only activates in a challenge, and no where have I seen how fear initiated in a challenge works. Is it just the character in the challenge? Is it the whole unit? We don't have a situation where the active player can choose to apply the fear BEFORE the challenge (MSS isn't rumored to work that way). Just too much up in the air.

The wording that guy gave...

Mindshackle Scarabs 10pts - During a challenge, model with the scarabs causes Fear. Ld. tests against the model are taken on 3D6.

Doesn't that also mean you're significantly more likely to break?

I can already see the games:
"I challenge you with my MSS-Lord!"
-"That gives Fear now, right?"
"Yes, on a 3D6 Ld-test!"
-"Isn't my entire army immune to that?"
"Uhm.. uhm.. I guess so.."
-"Accept?"

About the rule:

If the test is failed, the unit succumbs to fear – all models in the unit have their Weapon Skill reduced to 1 for the remainder of that Fight sub-phase.

Too bad we have slowed stuff like:

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule automatically passes Fear and Regroup tests.

Seriously man, who gives a **** about MSS (not meant hostile ) : look at all the new ways to field necrons; MSS were a design choice to counter the weak close combat abilities of necrons, now we can maneuver around ithem, shoot and sturdy those to dead who dare to approach us: let MSS be dead and us conquer new strategies and much cooler ones

It's complete and absolute garbage now and if it actually gave you 10 points back into your army list then it still would be questionable on whether you should take it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

Kersplakastani wrote:
Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.

Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?

Yes. 12"

Well, not bad I guess. Better than the measly 6" Mr Ward gave them! (Really?! What fething good is that!?Thank god he's gone!)

Must admit I'm quite jealuos that Necrons got primary weapon... That's totally what the LRBT/LR Demolisher should've had, in order to represent the old lumbering behemoth rule...

The Resurrection Protocols gave all units that had them and were Assault units a pretty significant buff.

No more, I lose 2 guys from front fail charge, oh they get back up.

Yeah, we're quite possibly one of the strongest assault armies in the game now with all these changes. Wraiths and Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and Bargelords, Ghost Ark Lychguard, Scarab Farms and infiltrating Flayed One chaff... Even more access to rapid fire and charge with a combat character in the unit if you feel like involving the troops.

Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?

I did Four (T-)C'tans, 6 Lords, 20 FO's, 30 Lychguard, 3 GA's, 30 Scarabs, 3 Spyders and a Tomb Stalker.
I am totally prepared for our melee-Crons!

The only thing I'd need would be Praetorians.

changemod wrote:

Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?

I was already doing that with my Scarabs, Spyders, and Wraiths..

Any new on Spyders ? Do they still spawn Scarabs ?

Yeah they still spawn Scarabs.

changemod wrote:
Yeah, we're quite possibly one of the strongest assault armies in the game now with all these changes. Wraiths and Praetorians, Destroyer Lords and Bargelords, Ghost Ark Lychguard, Scarab Farms and infiltrating Flayed One chaff... Even more access to rapid fire and charge with a combat character in the unit if you feel like involving the troops.

Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?

Bersercrons!

Yup, they still generate them as usual.
Though the wording might have changed a bit:

9. The Spyder can add a single Canoptek Scarab base to a scarab unit within 6", at the start of the movement phase, even if it raises it past the starting amount. Roll a D6 after that, and it takes a wound on a 1.

That is much clearer if you ask me.

 adamsouza wrote:

changemod wrote:

Who'd have expected someone to field a Necron list where everyone is charging?

I was already doing that with my Scarabs, Spyders, and Wraiths..

Any new on Spyders ? Do they still spawn Scarabs ?

They do still spawn, yes.

I'm very interested in hearing what the new Canoptek formation does given that I'd gathered enough Canoptek for a 2000 point unbound list before. With the reanimation change making MSU more viable I might be able to make a bound version around a core of 5 man immortal squads and Crypteks.

Just a shame actually that these changes make the Tomb Stalker even less viable. Rampage at I4 in a Cron list is the one lovely part, but what use have I for an attention grabbing footslogging Monstrous Creature with no invulnerable save? Already I had nightmares actually getting him into combat.

Yeah you can actually make a pretty cool Assault Army now which is pretty cool. You can still actually run Cronair still if you wanted to.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah you can actually make a pretty cool Assault Army now which is pretty cool. You can still actually run Cronair still if you wanted to.

You could always make a pretty cool assault army.
Difference is that now it is actually viable

RIP MSS

My dreadknights shall no longer be hitting themselves

As for my more viable MSU comment: I always thought of running 5 man troop units as a waste of time because they were too easy to deny reanimation.

Now though? If you have extra troop slots open and aren't running a buff character in there, why not combat squad them?

@changemod: 15 pts for sepulchral scarabs gets you IWND on a 5+ For the Tomb Stalker. Not that bad.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
@changemod: 15 pts for sepulchral scarabs gets you IWND on a 5+. Not that bad.

Yep. My complaints for the unit are entirely based around the difficulty getting it into combat.

I tried outflanking it in four or five games, but it keeps only getting to punch a unit right at the end of the game.

I try just running it up the field, and it gets shot to pieces because it's a giant scary attention grabbing centipede with no invulnerable save.

Only thing I've not tried is deep striking, and with a flight stand sized base I'm not enthusiastic about the idea.

This new codex sounds like we have broken out of the cookie cutter. There are so many good units that it will be hard to decide what to actually take.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
RIP MSS

My dreadknights shall no longer be hitting themselves

Good riddance.

Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

The best part about the MSS change is that you can measure a Necron player's skill pretty darn accurately now. Got MSS equipped? Easy win.

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

And more importantly 1 use only.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

And more importantly 1 use only.

The real res orb is one use only. I was discussing the new cryptek ability which mimicks the old res orb (+1 to RP) and not one use only.