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Hollismason wrote:
I think it's funny that we get the Tesserract Vault as a Lord of War that thing is crazy , throwing out Apocalyptic Blasts in normal games.

Its not Str D at least

It's always been a LoW since Escalation came out. It is indeed funny that Superheavies are in normal games.

Hollismason wrote:
I think it's funny that we get the Tesserract Vault as a Lord of War that thing is crazy , throwing out Apocalyptic Blasts in normal games.

It was a lord of war before. Now, according to the rumors at least, it's a heavy support choice

That's the transcendent c'tan, not the Vault.

But they do appear to be able to use two powers.
if that is true it could be the line between good and bad.

I haven't seen that rumor, only the one that the Tran-Tan and Obelisk are HS.

We've only gained 2 HS from what we've seen from the Army Builder, and we know the FA and Elite choices already.

So unless one of our 3 previous LoW option became a Troop or HQ (both unlikely) we'll have 2 LoW, Immotek and I'd assume the Vault (since it has the better version of the C'Tan powers)

Wait does the Transendant use the Tesseract Vaults rules or just the normal rules.

Where did you hear it uses two powers?

Hollismason wrote:
Wait does the Transendant use the Tesseract Vaults rules or just the normal rules.

Where did you hear it uses two powers?

IIRC Trany gets a buff in stats but thats it

Only the vault gets bonus super pumped shooting.

The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.

Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.

Is the Transcendent still considered a Gargantuan creature for stomps and all that?

It was kind of super powerful in Escalation.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Is the Transcendent still considered a Gargantuan creature for stomps and all that?

Gotta admit: If one thing would make people less convinced it's useless for the points cost, it would be 12 inch movement and stomping.

changemod wrote:
The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.

Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.

I was under the impression it was designed to be a Shard of the Moulder of Worlds (since Writhing Worldscape, the special rule the Tran is rumored to have, was designed to be it's power in the 5th Ed codex)

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.

There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.

Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.

There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.

Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

changemod wrote:
The Transcendent C'tan appears to literally just be the Shard of the Burning One now. Roughly the same statline as the other Shards, plus it has Deep Strike and Exterminatus used the model as the Burning One and described the Burning One as deep strike capable in the fluff.

Odds are they just reused the name to Retcon it out of Escalation by force.

I was under the impression it was designed to be a Shard of the Moulder of Worlds (since Writhing Worldscape, the special rule the Tran is rumored to have, was designed to be it's power in the 5th Ed codex)

Well, just look at all the Burning One art we have now. Uses the Transcendent model.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Lords could, at the very least, equip Warscythes and thus do anything but standing around. Crypteks...couldn't. They were just...there.

The staffs can have some utility still (assuming they haven't completely taken them away, we need to see what the Cryptek Relics look like).

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

I'm super excited about flayed ones. My mind tells me that Praetorians are better in every conceivable way, and that Wraiths will still most likely outclass them, but the old models are so awesome. Plus, they're pretty good on the charge - 5 S4 attacks with shred on MEQ with infiltrate is nothing to sniff at for 13 points. Shame about the whole not fearless thing really.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.

There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.

Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.

There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.

Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.

Not "battleforged only:" A Sinlge combined arms detachment. That's what they run around here. Not really a problem for me, but it does mean no alternate detachments and no formations in the tourneys.

 Desubot wrote:

changemod wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Quantum-shielding being AV13 all-around is a pretty big fething deal.

I mean, it single handedly gaks on the Pentyrant build.

Not necessarily, because now tesla destructors are not as effective against them either.

Night Scythe as go-to flyer defence, I guess. Unless one of the formations is kind enough to help out.

Death Ray suffers from being a blast weapon of course. To this day I haven't the slightest clue why Skyfire doesn't let blasts hit flyers.

It probably has to do with how big the model is, so blasts would be much easier to hit (which wouldn't be the case in fluff because altitudes)

Except when things explode they do so in a sphere which means that even if the center of a blast doesn't hit you, the pressure wave and debris should (both of which can put an aircraft out of control and crash it).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I can only think of like 1 army that doesn't and that's Tau? I don't think Tau have a way to ignore fear maybe?

It's pretty much the most useless rule.

Tau, Sisters, Necrons, Nids (outside of Synapse), Orks (depending on their rolls), Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.

And I'd have to look to see if Daemons can be affected by Fear since they're not technically Fearless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone here realizes that it's the exact same point cost from 5th edition to 7th edition to give a squad a +1 to RP, right?

Previously it was a Lord w/ a Orb, 65 points.

Crypteks are now base 65 points and give +1 to the roll.

Yeah, but you could have several Lords and not use an HQ slot. I haven't seen anything that says the Cryptek is more than 1 per HQ slot, so alot fewer res orb equivelants running round, most likely.

I'd be kind of surprised if Crypteks weren't "doesn't use an FOC slot" HQ choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Uh the Cryptek ability is not 1 use only the Ressurection Orb is 1 use only. A Necron Lord w/ a Rez Orb and a Cryptek in a unit is going to give it a 4+ rerollable save.

There is in fact a Formation that allows you take a Royal court with multiple Crypteks.

Also, they don't take up a HQ slot if you have a Overlord.

There is a formation, which is great for casual play, but all my local tourneys require the combined arms detatchment, sans Lord of War. I don't think that's uncommon. Formations are fun, but you can't always rely on them.

Going with the ol' Battleforged list or the one in Leviathan should be pretty good still for that.

Not "battleforged only:" A Sinlge combined arms detachment. That's what they run around here. Not really a problem for me, but it does mean no alternate detachments and no formations in the tourneys.

Sorry, well either way the standard FOC or the Leviathan FOC are both good single FOCs.

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Is the Transcendent still considered a Gargantuan creature for stomps and all that?

Considering it's only 10 pts over the other two Shards, either they were promoted to GCs or it was demoted to an MC.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Is the Transcendent still considered a Gargantuan creature for stomps and all that?

Considering it's only 10 pts over the other two Shards, either they were promoted to GCs or it was demoted to an MC.

Probably demoted then

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Is the Transcendent still considered a Gargantuan creature for stomps and all that?

Considering it's only 10 pts over the other two Shards, either they were promoted to GCs or it was demoted to an MC.

Probably demoted then

That's my thought too. But I am open to being surprised too.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Not awful for a durable midfield camper since it should be able to shoot two to three of it's guns per turn... But really, it needs the snap fire to target flyers just as much as barges do, especially since it's marketed as dedicated anti-air.

If it could opt to turn Skyfire on and off at will that alone would make it worth a look.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.

Eyjio wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.

Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.

Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.

Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.

Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.

Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).

Then that isn't that bad.

Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and Thunderblitz.

changemod wrote:
Certainly with 12 inch movement you can use it to control line of sight to a degree whilst it lives, and presumably provoke quite a bit of effort into killing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and Thunderblitz.

It just kind of tilts then swings itself and knocks the space marines into the horizon.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
How useful is the Obelisk as a Monolith substitute with no snap fire benefit?

Doesn't have the gate, no central gun... But it does have 6 HP, AV 14 and immunity to most vehicle damage effects.

It's not dying any time soon, but Dangerous Terrain to flyers isn't as good as the gate.

It's 4 HP so nowhere close to worthwhile. It would have been okay if it'd kept the STR 8 auto hits but alas, it doesn't.

It also has 4 24" S7 AP- Assault 5, Tesla guns (unless they changed the profile for spheres). Having nearly the same fire power as 4 annihilation barges isn't exactly a terrible thing.

Right, but they all face different directions. You can't even bring two to bear against a single target. If you could aim all four, then it might be worth considering but as it stands, it's a junker IMO.

Really comes down to the rules it has for shooting. It might get rules that let the guns aim separately to compensate.

Given it was described as a Super Heavy Monolith by the Tyranid guy, I'd image it's still a Super Heavy (and thus can shoot it's guns at different targets).

And the monolith can currently shoot its guns at different targets anyway