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zeromaeus wrote:
The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.

Overly pedantic is what the internet does best.

changemod wrote:
Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.

You'd be surprised...

zeromaeus wrote:
The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic[u].

Overly pedantic? Welcome to Dakkadakka!

<error post>

Sautekh Necron Overlord & Necron Warrior tutorials here btw

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633373.page

I don't get that comment, why should we enjoy it while we can and what is "8th edition" going to change about it?
The current way that Detachments and Formations work is quite clear and easy to understand.
A newcomer isn't going to have any issues with it, it are the 'veterans' (people from 6th) that keep using rules and terms that are no longer relevant.

We cannot rule on the Relic-thing since we do not have the rules.

zeromaeus wrote:
The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.

There are two things in play for Swooping FMCs regarding Dangerous Terrain tests:

1. All MCs have Move Through Cover, which results in an MC auto-passing and Dangerous Terrain test. By convention, this roll is not actually made.
2. From the FMC rules in the BRB: "a Flying Monstrous Creature that is Swooping does not take Dangerous Terrain tests”

So if the FMC is swooping, they don't even have to take a test, auto-pass or not. The obelisk requires them to actually take the test, but they'd still auto-pass it. For this to be otherwise, the obelisk rule would have to say something like: "...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests. This test is not automatically passed."

That's how I see things anyway. Probably a better idea to take it to YMDC after the book is actually released though.

rollawaythestone wrote:
No. That's why I said I would personally rule it based on the intent. But ambiguous wording like this starts arguments and is really unfortunate for the game as a whole.

Yeah, fair enough.

I got hit by the same thing earlier: Pointed out an exact wording problem that could cause arguments on the God Shackle, and got insulted for my troubles. We, meaning everyone in general, should probably make more of a habit of differentiating between making arguments and pointing out possible arguments upon hitting the table.

FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...

Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.

 Galorian wrote:
FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...

Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.

My GW said I couldn't have it before midnight, and that they were doing an apocalypse event that stretched to midnight.

Because obviously someone who lives ten miles away can get home by public transport at midnight on a Friday night carrying two large cases, right?

@changemod: Taxi?

At least it is better than nothing
I personally have to wait for the package to arrive, which could be anywhere from Saturday to Wednesday.

Thank God we have the internet so I can start on BS anyway.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
@changemod: Taxi?

Works fine, but I've already spent a small fortune and am I really going to be doing much reading at midnight after a 6 hour Apocalypse game?

 Galorian wrote:
FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...

Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.

They can give it to you on Saturday. The 31st is the release date. You're only 2 hours ahead of the UK.

Ironically, in the states, they can't give it to you before it is released in the UK, but with the time difference, it's actually possible to get the stuff on friday afternoon. I went to a GW store here and asked if I could get the new White Dwarf on a Friday. The manager told me he couldn't sell it to me before 4pm which was annoying since it was noon at the time and I was on my way out of town.

changemod wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...

Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.

My GW said I couldn't have it before midnight, and that they were doing an apocalypse event that stretched to midnight.

Because obviously someone who lives ten miles away can get home by public transport at midnight on a Friday night carrying two large cases, right?

The real irony is that the 31st is my birthday, and I can't get my own present!

angelofvengeance wrote:@changemod: Taxi?

How will he pay for it? He probably already sold a kidney just to afford his order!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Galorian wrote:
FLGS called, my order's there but they aren't allowed to give it to me before the 31st, which is a Saturday, which, in Israel, means they're closed, so I won't be picking it up before Sunday...

Oh well, at least I have the rumor thread to get my fix until then.

They can give it to you on Saturday. The 31st is the release date. You're only 2 hours ahead of the UK.

Ironically, in the states, they can't give it to you before it is released in the UK, but with the time difference, it's actually possible to get the stuff on friday afternoon. I went to a GW store here and asked if I could get the new White Dwarf on a Friday. The manager told me he couldn't sell it to me before 4pm which was annoying since it was noon at the time and I was on my way out of town.

But they aren't open on Saturday, which is the problem...

Locally our stores are allowed to sell GW new releases after 12pm on Friday. Which works out because I'm headed out of town for the weekend and have 2 4-hour flights to take so I can pick it up before I head out which is pretty sweet.

changemod wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
@changemod: Taxi?

Works fine, but I've already spent a small fortune and am I really going to be doing much reading at midnight after a 6 hour Apocalypse game?

Do some nudgenudge favors and ask for a ride

Or share a taxi with someone.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.

Overly pedantic is what the internet does best.

I thought drawing dicks on everything is what the internet does best?

So if people are enthusiastic about the Obelisk now that it's AV14, how are we feeling about the Tesseract Vault now that it has Tesla Spheres?

Nice, someone on /tg/ just posted the Wargear-section.
Though it is in German!

Confirmed: No Dispersion Shield for Lords.
Judicar bonus only works for the Formation.
All Auxiliary-stuff can be taken as Formations.

changemod wrote:
So if people are enthusiastic about the Obelisk now that it's AV14, how are we feeling about the Tesseract Vault now that it has Tesla Spheres?

I have two feelings:
1. They should have had this before.
2. Still has random powers. I won't touch these things with a 10 foot pole as long as GW insists that Random weapons are awesome, especially AFTER you select a target.

Kangodo wrote:
Nice, someone on /tg/ just posted the Wargear-section.
Though it is in German!

Confirmed: No Dispersion Shield for Lords.
Judicar bonus only works for the Formation.
All Auxiliary-stuff can be taken as Formations.

What about The Lord exclusive and Cryptek exclusive stuff? That's what I'm curious about.

Sad if the Judicar bonus only works on the Judicar formation. Makes it fairly pointless actually. It also make the decision toward using a normal CAD/Mephrit more likely. The ability to pick the formation that best fits my army outside of the decurion is tempting but so is 30 jetbikes that ignore cover with their guns and have a 4+ RP.

Lots of options with this book. I'm pretty excited!

changemod wrote:
So if people are enthusiastic about the Obelisk now that it's AV14, how are we feeling about the Tesseract Vault now that it has Tesla Spheres?

Like I said before - Vault is 250 more points than an Obelisk. For those 250 points, you lose the Dangerous Terrain bubble, but gain random Apoc powers and 3 Hull Points. As strong as all the powers are, I still hate the Randomness.

So is 250pts worth that tradeoff? Up to you, but imo no. My kit is going into an Obelisk.

rollawaythestone wrote:
It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically.

From 'Automatic Pass and Fail' in the main rulebook:

If a rule states that a characteristic test 'automatically passes' then no dice roll is needed; the test is passed.

Yes, the rule in the codex is poorly worded but it does point to the test no longer being 'automatically passed' since it requires you to actually take the test.

Dammit, leaked pages of wargear lists specifically say that buying Melee weapons and weapon Artifacts replaces your Staff of Light... no Overlords running around with Solar Staff and Warscythe, have to pick one or the other. Sad, I was really looking forward to having good shooting and a Warscythe to back it up.

changemod wrote:
What about The Lord exclusive and Cryptek exclusive stuff? That's what I'm curious about.

We have two footnotes.
#1 Replaces Staff of Light
#2 Cannot be taken by Crypteks

#1 is behind Solar Staff and the Voidreaper.
#2 is listed under: Resurrection Orb, Sphere of Eternity and Voidreaper

That means we can take MSS, Phylactery and Phase Shifter on Crypteks.

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.

Overly pedantic is what the internet does best.

I thought drawing dicks on everything is what the internet does best?

That's what the military does best.

Kangodo wrote:

changemod wrote:
What about The Lord exclusive and Cryptek exclusive stuff? That's what I'm curious about.

We have two footnotes.
#1 Replaces Staff of Light
#2 Cannot be taken by Crypteks

#1 is behind Solar Staff and the Voidreaper.
#2 is listed under: Resurrection Orb, Sphere of Eternity and Voidreaper

That means we can take MSS, Phylactery and Phase Shifter on Crypteks.

Well, IWND isn't much use on 2 wounds, but I'll bear that in mind for the Invulnerable save.

I think the obelisk is not bad for some extra shooting, but thats a lot of points I might rather put into something that feels like it gives more tactical flxability. I will use one to try it out of course.

Its AA is laughable, and what I call "opportunistic"....kind of like smash on trygon to crack a land raider - sure you can try it, but you can't count on it as a tactic.

The vault, is low value in my opinion - random powers at 48" in apoc? for 550 points? MAYBE it will have value as a fire magnet.
I have 11 super heavies, and play a lot of apoc (playing in a 12k game satruday) and the ONLY problem I have with super heavies is perfectly demonstrated by these units;

Super heavies are WILDLY out of par on points.

note, I am not saying XYZ is worth ABC points, I am saying that many super heavis have DRAMATIC differences in value per point.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a power/minmaxer/douche bag on these things - (I bought an orca, look it up, that should explain it) I just love big models in games. Sadly some of them are just terrible on a relative scale.

These necron ones - I feel fall on the "low" end of the scale, performance wise. Will I field an obelisk in an apoc game?

Absolutely, I think it looks cool and I have thousands of points to use. I just don't have high expectations for it.

Anyway, the codex

Very excited at all the options - this is what I really wanted.
Sure, the ctan still suck (low survivability + random post target powers = lame) and monoliths are still dumb (ordnance still? Really?) but overall the book is good.

My 30 metal flayed ones return....