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 Tokhuah wrote:

Did I miss something in all the spoilage or are we missing antiaircraft tech?

Apparently GW actively wants us to spam Nightscythes now as our AA, since the Tesla barge is useless for it.

Although it sounds like Tomb Blades on a quad gun might be fun.

I had the realization while looking at all the discussion about all the small formations. Technically the royal court listed in the decurion is also a formation just like the auxillaries so if you wanted a ton of characters (which would get expensive fast) you could take multiple royal court formations. Of course without the book, we don't know if this would be legal.

Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.

Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.

Warmonger2757 wrote:
I had the realization while looking at all the discussion about all the small formations. Technically the royal court listed in the decurion is also a formation just like the auxillaries so if you wanted a ton of characters (which would get expensive fast) you could take multiple royal court formations. Of course without the book, we don't know if this would be legal.

As long as they are each their own detachment I think your right. 0-1 for decurion though.

Ffyllotek wrote:
I am a tad confused how someone uses the formations in a non-Decurion army.

My rule book says I can take two types of detachment, a Combined Arms Detachment or an Allied Detachment. These are the only battle-forged choices available.

Both CAD and Allied are made up of numbers of slots of HQ, Tr, FA, HS, El, LoW or Fortifications.

So at no point can I fit formations into the two choices.

Presumably in order to do so I need to add special detachments. So I could have a CAD, an allied, a Decurion or a special detachment. Each special detachment can be any one Codex:Necrons formation.

Is this right?

Formations have rules too. They're basically detachments you add to an army like you do allies.

 Tokhuah wrote:
Did I miss something in all the spoilage or are we missing antiaircraft tech?

The Obelisk is anti-aircraft, but at 300 points it is quite pricey.

Requizen wrote:
Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.

Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.

I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.

The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.

I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.

The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.

Which is honestly reasonable given how few they are. It's not a full artifact list, it's just a few toys.

changemod wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.

I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.

The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.

Which is honestly reasonable given how few they are. It's not a full artifact list, it's just a few toys.

Yup. And it's not like you can take them in a Decurion which is where they'd end up being broken.

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.

If you really want to be mean, put a Triarch Stalker next to them, making the Quad Gun functionally BS10.

Ghaz wrote:

 Tokhuah wrote:
Did I miss something in all the spoilage or are we missing antiaircraft tech?

The Obelisk is anti-aircraft, but at 300 points it is quite pricey.

It's less so now, just an 18" bubble of Dangerous Terrain for Flyers, Skimmers, FMCs, and Jetbikes (even against things that normally pass automatically). It doesn't do an automatic hit in the bubble like before, so it's not really a great AA option, though it'll give nearby troops some cover from charging FMCs and Jetbikes.

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.

Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.

I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
The crytek from a Mephrit detachment can take the Mephrit relics, but the normal archo-whatevers from the codex. He cannot take the relics (or whatever the equivalent is) from the codex.

I see no reason why he couldn't use his God Shackle on a C'tan from another detachment... but I haven't reviewed those rules closely in a few days.

The Mephrit relics don't prevent you from taking codex relics. Their only restrictions is that they can only be taken by models in a Mephrit FOC or formation.

Well, we haven't seen the full Artifacts page from the Codex. It might state that they can only be taken by Detachments from Codex: Necrons, which would limit Mephrit from taking them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, the Obelisk Rule is kinda dumb.

"...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests."

Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Things with Mover Through Cover automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests. So... it does nothing against Swooping FMCs.

Requizen wrote:

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.

Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.

I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.

They can't be manned, but they do have Interceptor. So basically, they kill flyers on arrival and spend the rest of the game passively holding objectives (I tripled checked, they are capable of holding) whilst plinking away 4 twin linked snap shot Lascannon shots at the nearest target.

You can take a FSR with Magos and get BS3 Twin-Linked interceptor and a bunker.

changemod wrote:

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades with the quad gun will also be good against wave serpent spam, or help out at the very least.

If you really want to be mean, put a Triarch Stalker next to them, making the Quad Gun functionally BS10.

True. Although if someone is using wave serpent spam, anything you do then is fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:

changemod wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Flyer v Flyer seems to be our main choice. Aegis Lines or other Fortifications, nice now that Overlords are BS5 so they can sit back there and man it nicely.

Also, while it's not ideal, Sentry Gauss Pylons could be an option now. They'll obliterate any Flyers coming on from Reserve and can help deal with Skimmer/FMC spam if you have that at your store. They're a little more viable now that ABarges are less good at AA.

And Ignores Cover on Tomb Blades letting you quad gun a flyer without jinking being a worry.

I find Vengeance Batteries are a better option than Gauss Pylons: Two for the price of one, roughly the same gun, and twin linked so you stand a better shot of hitting a ground target with your four Skyfire Lascannon shots per turn.

Tomb Blades are kind of a cool idea, though you're trading BS5 for that Ignores Cover. I guess that might be an even tradeoff.

I don't know how Vengeance Batteries work, I know that if unoccupied they fire at BS2 at the closest target (Automated Fire), but can they be manned and fired manually? If so, one with an Overlord of one type or another (or Tomb Blade) would be quite good overall.

They can't be manned, but they do have Interceptor. So basically, they kill flyers on arrival and spend the rest of the game passively holding objectives (I tripled checked, they are capable of holding) whilst plinking away 4 twin linked snap shot Lascannon shots at the nearest target.

Eh... BS2 just turns me off to them. Sure, Twin Linked, but that's a good number of points to pay for Ork shooting.

changemod wrote:
Infiltrate says it works so long as one model in the unit has it. Order of operations error aside, I can't think of any reason for that wording other than the expectation you can make combined units making use of the rule.

Theres a rule under IC that says they cant join a unit with infiltrate and "infiltrate" if they dont also have it.


But the if the IC has infiltrate (which grants it to everyone) but the group doesnt normally, is still debated because of order of deployment and IC joining a unit timing.

 MechaBeast wrote:
Theres a rule under IC that says they cant join a unit with infiltrate and "infiltrate" if they dont also have it.

Fair 'nuff.

You could probably join up a Destroyer Lord to a Flayed One group without too much difficulty... Mind you, Preferred Enemy is half wasted on a unit with Shred already.

Requizen wrote:
Eh... BS2 just turns me off to them. Sure, Twin Linked, but that's a good number of points to pay for Ork shooting.

75 points is really not bad for a immobile objective holder that people don't usually shoot at and can intercept/skyfire with 2 lascannons.

What is the firing arc on Tesla spheres? They look kind of turrety but are they actually hull mounted?

Requizen wrote:
Actually, the Obelisk Rule is kinda dumb.
"...Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests."
Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Things with Mover Through Cover automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests. So... it does nothing against Swooping FMCs.

Yes, it clearly does.
When you pass something automatically you do not have to roll.
But this rule says they DO have to take the test, which means they can fail.

What actually happens with FMC's and Flyers that take a DT-test?
I'm not really familiar with the rule since it hardly comes up in games.

 Hulksmash wrote:
:: Sigh ::

Everything is a detachment. A formation is a pure detachment. Just give up on please on trying to organize them seperately. It's what leads to people's confusion....

No, what confuses people is that they keep using 6th edition terms and rules.
A Formation is not a pure Detachment, a Formation is a Detachment with additional rules.

When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Kangodo wrote:

What actually happens with FMC's and Flyers that take a DT-test?
I'm not really familiar with the rule since it hardly comes up in games.

A Flyer would take a hull point of damage and be immobilised on a 1, which of course means it needs to roll 3+ to not immediately crash and burn.

FMC would need to take an armour save.

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.

It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

Optional Skyfire. If I'm paying Lord of War prices I want to not snap fire at ground targets.

Besides, you can take a Pylon if you want to do that so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.

It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".

Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.

changemod wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

Optional Skyfire. If I'm paying Lord of War prices I want to not snap fire at ground targets.

Besides, you can take a Pylon if you want to do that so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
When they have to roll, they pass automatically.

Except the Obelisk states that they have to take it, even though they normally pass it.
Personally, I would have preferred skyfire though. More dangerous than a 1/6 change of something happening.

It's really poorly worded. FMC's take Dangerous Terrain tests everytime they move in and out of terrain. They just so happen to pass automatically so no one cares. The Obelisk only states that they must take the test even if they normally wouldn't. It doesn't state that they must take the test and don't pass automatically. I would give the Obelisk player the benefit of the doubt and roll for DT on my FMC's as I believe the intent was that the FMC's would test and potentially fail. But RAW - FMC's are forced to test and they pass automatically.

It states verbatim: "... and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature must also take a Dangerous Terrain test if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take Dangerous Terrain tests." There is a big difference between "not normally take dangerous terrain tests" and "even though they normally pass it".

Vaguely technically yes, but do you genuinely expect to weasel out of that one on a technicality? This isn't a programming language where the compiler crashes if you get the syntax wrong.

No. That's why I said I would personally rule it based on the intent. But ambiguous wording like this starts arguments and is really unfortunate for the game as a whole.

Wow, what a delightful mess.

First off, better enjoy your Shackled Conclave C'tans while you can, because once GW hits with 8th ed Formation and Detachment clarifications/rewrites (seriously this stuff is completely counter to their goal of a simplified & accessible rule set) you probably will be waving goodbye to your beloved usable C'tans. Back into the T7 & immobile trash bin they go, because you all know GW doesn't do FAQ!

Likewise, the relatively new FW book has been cripplingly invalidated. They'll need an update ASAP or pull the book. 7th ED is costing a good company money.


AS for this Decurion everyone is raving about...
The wording on the new Decurion is obfuscatory to anything but a 40k forum. To a newcomer, they'll read it as the mandatory way to play Necrons. And this no doubt was done intentionally to sell bigger packages; it's bait and switch robbery to people (read: kids) who don't know better.
"THIS is how you play 40k. But THIS is how you play Necrons*."
"*Fineprint: Not really"

To further push the point, and as was noted earlier in this thread, the rules are damn fine on these. Damn fine. To the point where you're shooting yourself in the foot by not playing them in the most cost-inefficient play style. Your liberty as a player has been subtly manipulated through huge incentives.


A lot of fun stuff has been added: Flayed Ones, powerful C'tan combos, effective BS10 Destroyers, and a cost effective Super Heavy that starts a DS chain. We're a step closer to playing as tactically as the old Tau.

PS. I wouldn't argue that the Mephrit Dynasty can take the codex relics, unless you want to lose friends.

PPS. Triarch Stalkers 1-3 now. Aww yes! Finally!

The wording is imprecise, but the intent is clear. Trying to make exact wording loopholes out of it seems kinda overly pedantic.