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Soulstealer is a Dark Magic spell that causes wounds. For each wound that isn't saved, the caster gains an extra wound (up to a maximum of 10) on a roll of 4+.

Who gains the wounds when Soulstealer is cast by a unit of Doomfire Warlocks?

Vetril wrote:
Soulstealer is a Dark Magic spell that causes wounds. For each wound that isn't saved, the caster gains an extra wound (up to a maximum of 10) on a roll of 4+.

Who gains the wounds when Soulstealer is cast by a unit of Doomfire Warlocks?

When warlocks cast a spell, you have to nominate which model is casting.

So you add all the wounds to the same model? Can you assign all the miscast wounds to him, later on?

Vetril wrote:
So you add all the wounds to the same model? Can you assign all the miscast wounds to him, later on?

I actually don't know rithgt now. Will reply when I'm not drunl;

But I velibe that' the case.


As I'm now sober, I'd argue that the model that gets nominated gains the wounds, but there's no precedent for it. So it could go either way. And both ways are worse in certain aspects. Aspect 1: The unit gains the wounds. You gain up to 10 extra warlocks per casting. Aspect 2: You spam it, and each warlock gains up to 10 wounds per casting. They just got even better.

First, lol at the drunk response!

Second, this is a game-breaking one as it isn't covered at all and neither option really seems to be correct. I agree that I think the caster would have to gain the wounds as there is no precedent for the unit to be gaining extra models and that is definitely not the intent of the spell. In reality though, I have no idea how this would be ruled at an event or similar.

doomfire warlocks cannot cast soulstealer as they do not generate spells.....they have the spells soulblight and doombolt.

Someone didn't read the new magic rules

The above is incorrect in the new ET rules.

No I read the rules used for tournament play sorry lol. and as of right now the only changes to the rules that are in faq are that anyone can use undeath and the Lord's and heroes are at 50 %.

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
No I read the rules used for tournament play sorry lol. and as of right now the only changes to the rules that are in faq are that anyone can use undeath and the Lord's and heroes are at 50 %.

The book states that if either player wants the magic, it's in play.

yea I know I'm not saying you never use the rules, what I'm saying is that end times magic, army composition etc is not something you see in tournament play (yet*) as they are not part of the rules or have been faq'd in.

What I'm seeing in Australian tournaments is that the 50% allowance for Lords and Heroes is allowed, as are the new combined army lists. However, End Times Magic (regardless of whether you use the Host of the Eternity King or not) and certain characters (notably Nagash and Malekith) are banned. I think that is probably the best way to go if tournaments want to incorporate the new stuff, however I would argue Alarielle, Incarnate of Life should probably be banned as well as she is ridiculous in normal games. Of course, you could make that argument for a number of units/characters overall!

Well yea like here in Canada one of the bigger tournaments out west is gottacon and they are using 50 percent lords and heroes as that is in the faq and as well as undeath, however using the characters I'm not sure if they are allowing end times ones or not, but the combined armies and magic are not being brought in.

Caederes wrote:
What I'm seeing in Australian tournaments is that the 50% allowance for Lords and Heroes is allowed, as are the new combined army lists. However, End Times Magic (regardless of whether you use the Host of the Eternity King or not) and certain characters (notably Nagash and Malekith) are banned. I think that is probably the best way to go if tournaments want to incorporate the new stuff, however I would argue Alarielle, Incarnate of Life should probably be banned as well as she is ridiculous in normal games. Of course, you could make that argument for a number of units/characters overall!

Oh. Of course no mention of KFA. Who is without a doubt, the most obnoxious model in all of warhammer. #tournamentgate.

Tournament rules are ... what the TOs choose to allow
there's no "official" tournament rules

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
doomfire warlocks cannot cast soulstealer as they do not generate spells.....they have the spells soulblight and doombolt.

Can you explain? I just reread the rules and this seems wrong. It clearly says anyone who does not generate spells still knows all the ones in their lore...

I'm talking about regular game rules/majority of tournament rules.

I say majority because as of right now the next 3 tourneys I have signed up to attend have all stated that brb rules and Faqs are used, no supplements (Ie. end times specific rules/magic, storm of.magic etc)

if you are talking about END TIMES magic then ignore what i said as i have not read the new SUPPLEMENT set of rules and can't comment on them

also from what I've gathered that your all saying, is if you know one spell from a lore your essentially a Lore master, so why isn't everybody playing elves putting a Lore master in their list to have every single spell in the brb......

 TanKoL wrote:
Tournament rules are ... what the TOs choose to allow
there's no "official" tournament rules

Which is why I laugh everytime i see reference to WHFB "tournament" rules. There is nothing official. It's whatever the TO or big group of TO's decide shoudn't be used / have an axe to grind against etc / feel there is balance issues with.

Like Dark Avenger said above ; so the Aussie tourney scene bans Malekith, Nagash, and End Times Magic, but is perfectly okay with Karl Franz Ascendant, and the Jury is still out on Alarielle Incarnate of Life.

Ok.

This makes positively zero sense if the goal is balance.

 Haight wrote:
This makes positively zero sense if the goal is balance.

Agreed. The new Franz is probably the most broken one in the book.

 John Rainbow wrote:

 Haight wrote:
This makes positively zero sense if the goal is balance.

Agreed. The new Franz is probably the most broken one in the book.

It takes 6 Cannonballs to wound Malekith. And once they wound, it will take 10 cannons to kill him. Assuming they're mundane.

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
Well yea like here in Canada one of the bigger tournaments out west is gottacon and they are using 50 percent lords and heroes as that is in the faq and as well as undeath, however using the characters I'm not sure if they are allowing end times ones or not, but the combined armies and magic are not being brought in.

Tournament pack just changed: 50% lords and heroes+undeath are still in, but End Times content is out as a result of "negative player feedback." AKA whiny babies resistant to change.

Well its not whiny....it's simply game breaking, undead elves and chaos are the only armies that have benefit from most end times rules (ie focus on characters, combined armies.) end times characters are ridiculous overkill and the magic system obviously was not created with any regard what so ever to balance.... using super charged spells from storm of magic.

Also the end times rules are not deemed the base rules (yet anyways) as gw has put the changes into their Faqs like the character allowance and new lore.

Also tournaments typically have a simple way of getting rid of any speculation on what characters are illegal. If they aren't in your army Book then they aren't allowed in your army, result being you can't include random characters from other supplements such as tamurakhan or in the newest case end times

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
Well yea like here in Canada one of the bigger tournaments out west is gottacon and they are using 50 percent lords and heroes as that is in the faq and as well as undeath, however using the characters I'm not sure if they are allowing end times ones or not, but the combined armies and magic are not being brought in.

Tournament pack just changed: 50% lords and heroes+undeath are still in, but End Times content is out as a result of "negative player feedback." AKA whiny babies resistant to change.

Let's not forget that Nagash and KFA exclude the majority of armies from competitive play due to them not being able to fight them.


From the day Nagash came out, to today, the only times I've seen Nagash die is to a dwarf gunline, and when he rolled a 6 for Pit.

Where is the skill in that?

exactly as dark avenger said. Some characters in the end times are just way too overkill. plus let's not forget how many armies don't even have ascended characters yet or any characters at all! dwarfs, orcs, skaven, chaos dwarfs, beast men. All those armies and a few I'm sure I forgot about simply cannot stack up to the beastly powerhouses that come with the new books, it would be hardly fair or balanced for anyone to have to tackle stuff like that in a vanilla army Book.

Also keeping in mind most tournies I have been too do try to keep the playing field as fair and by the book as possible, people won't go to your tournaments if you have to pay 50 bucks to get in and then get romped every game because guys are using these near invincible characters that aren't even in their army Book right.

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
exactly as dark avenger said. Some characters in the end times are just way too overkill. plus let's not forget how many armies don't even have ascended characters yet or any characters at all! dwarfs, orcs, skaven, chaos dwarfs, beast men. All those armies and a few I'm sure I forgot about simply cannot stack up to the beastly powerhouses that come with the new books, it would be hardly fair or balanced for anyone to have to tackle stuff like that in a vanilla army Book.

Also keeping in mind most tournies I have been too do try to keep the playing field as fair and by the book as possible, people won't go to your tournaments if you have to pay 50 bucks to get in and then get romped every game because guys are using these near invincible characters that aren't even in their army Book right.

Dwarfs have all the tools they need, they have several options for very tough characters, along with tons of the best warmachines.
Skaven lack the character power houses, but that was true 4 months ago, with skaven pairing off against any normal character. The skaven solution has never been kill the super character in melee.
O&G likewise have been soft on combat characters for some time, and depending on shooting and magic to carry the day (with the help of nets, fanatics and manglers).
Chaos Dwarfs aren't are real book, so I don't care about them.
Lizardmen can tackle them, if you can get the right spell buffs, otherwise just chaff them into oblivion.

Personally, I'm happy when my opponent runs a 800 point character that I cannot kill instead of a 400 point character I cannot kill. It makes chaffing and redirecting that much easier, as they lack ~400 points of other units to deal with my chaff.

-Matt

I see your points and yes they are all perfectly valid however you can't argue that end times characters are just simply ridiculous in a lot of ways, and I honestly don't see a lot of tournaments using the end times specific characters rules magic etc for the simple sake they kibosh all the strategy of the game.

The magic for end times is garbage it's just another copy and paste slap in the face from GW did nobody notice they just gleaned storm of magic word for word and try to reboot it back into the game. The formula for magic they have and the spells used are super op. which for casual or local tournaments is alright but can you honestly say that for a larger tourney scale these rules and spells characters etc are balanced and require any form of strategy whatsoever to use? I say leave that kind of stuff for 40k lol

also how does one redirect malekith the eternity king who for lack of a better term is nigh invincible. or nagash who casts ryse and summons 600 points of zombies...which is 200 models btw lol, not that I'd count on anyone having 200 spare zombies I hope

all I'm.saying is that I can't see a lot of TO s including those portions of end times and I personally like having to play the game with some semblance of strategy not watching an invincible tyrant crash through most of your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also not just the characters and magic with end times if they allow all end times now we get into the obvious massive advantage of combined armies which all the armies I've listed already do not benefit.


chaos dwarves while I don't care about them they seem to be relatively popular, there's been at least 2 CD at the last 2 bigger tournies I've been, that's why I included them is all

thedarkavenger wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
Well yea like here in Canada one of the bigger tournaments out west is gottacon and they are using 50 percent lords and heroes as that is in the faq and as well as undeath, however using the characters I'm not sure if they are allowing end times ones or not, but the combined armies and magic are not being brought in.

Tournament pack just changed: 50% lords and heroes+undeath are still in, but End Times content is out as a result of "negative player feedback." AKA whiny babies resistant to change.

Let's not forget that Nagash and KFA exclude the majority of armies from competitive play due to them not being able to fight them.


From the day Nagash came out, to today, the only times I've seen Nagash die is to a dwarf gunline, and when he rolled a 6 for Pit.

Where is the skill in that?

Hardly. I've seen both Nagash and KFA in competitive play and neither army got even close to the top of the standings. Yeah they're rough against some matchups but so is any skew build. Just like with any bad matchup you play for a draw, try and get what scenario/objective points you can, and hope for the best.

But neither of these guys is anywhere near as bad as people complain about. It's like the nurgle demon prince + chimeras + chariots list that everyone always whines about, yet never seems to place in major tournaments.

Against Nagash, shoot off his hierotitan, shoot off his casket, then put wounds on him so that he's healing with VC spells instead of raising up units. He's a thousand bloody points and requires building your entire army around him to get anything out of that, not to mention spending a bajillion dollars on extra undead units to raise. And painting them, if you're at a tournament.

rocksteadygreeny wrote:Well its not whiny....it's simply game breaking, undead elves and chaos are the only armies that have benefit from most end times rules (ie focus on characters, combined armies.) end times characters are ridiculous overkill and the magic system obviously was not created with any regard what so ever to balance.... using super charged spells from storm of magic.

Also the end times rules are not deemed the base rules (yet anyways) as gw has put the changes into their Faqs like the character allowance and new lore.

Also tournaments typically have a simple way of getting rid of any speculation on what characters are illegal. If they aren't in your army Book then they aren't allowed in your army, result being you can't include random characters from other supplements such as tamurakhan or in the newest case end times

The magic system is unlikely to see general tournament play, because it takes too long and isn't well-polished enough. But everything is just fine.

Gottacon especially is renowned for being a filth-fest, with the doors wide open to bringing any horrendous list you wish. If you can't find ways to deal with Nagash or KFA then you're probably going to have a bad time anyways.

funny you mention gottacon as that's one of the tournies I'm going to and I've spoken to the TO and he said end times is not in play, you get your book and Faqs.