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Hey fellas,

this is an open ended topic about Magnus and what people think about him and why...I personally have grown to love this primarch and enjoy learning more about him everyday. Feel free to put what you wish about him and the source where you acquired it from.

This Primarch's story makes me sad, a true story of hubris and Good intentions gone wrong. Its the parallel of the story of the birth of the imperium. So much hope, such a brave new world so to speak, and it all just crumbles into dust. I think Magnus is as moral as Vulken, and if the emperor had ordered the salamanders to be brought to justice by the space wolves vulken would have made the same sacrifice, for his sons.

Very true!!!! It almost makes you resent the Emperor because while the SW were unleashing hell on Tizca, Magnus was just watching and accepting that he brought this upon his children. He could have fought back but withheld as long as he could as part of his punishment. I wonder if the emperor should have just recruited Magnus to help him work on the webway's instead of having him destroyed...

 chuckz1487 wrote:
Very true!!!! It almost makes you resent the Emperor because while the SW were unleashing hell on Tizca, Magnus was just watching and accepting that he brought this upon his children. He could have fought back but withheld as long as he could as part of his punishment. I wonder if the emperor should have just recruited Magnus to help him work on the webway's instead of having him destroyed...

Originally the emperor was going to have magnus man the golden throne, though it's never clear if he was going to force him or not. I dunno.

Magnus was an over-grown child who, instead of doing anything about the Wolves mistakenly slaughtering the people he had promised to protect, decided to sulk in his tower and make the murder of thousands of innocents into something that was all about him.

True True...

Magnus was also the tallest of the primarchs, is that correct?

 chuckz1487 wrote:
True True...

Magnus was also the tallest of the primarchs, is that correct?

I believe he was the tallest, but he could also use his psycic powers to grow in size

The emperor wanted him arrested, brought to Terra.
Horus changed to kill order, original was only that he be arrested by surrender or force if required.
Maybe he did have plans, to bolster the defences or even mend webway?

Magnus is probably the one of the only Primarch who isn't just a man-child with too much power. His is a truly sad story.

Also, the Emprah didn't order his Legion destroyed, he only ordered them subdued and brought to Terra for questioning. Horus modified the Emprah's orders so that Russ thought the Emprah wanted Magnus dead.

Exactly... but instead of getting down there and forcing the Wolves to talk to the Custodes and thus cleared up that mess, he decided to sit in his tower and sulk.

Not to mention the fact that the entire thing happened because he was so certain he knew better that he ignored everything his father told him to just do whatever he wanted.

Like a spoiled child.

 dusara217 wrote:
Magnus is probably the one of the only Primarch who isn't just a man-child with too much power. His is a truly sad story.

Also, the Emprah didn't order his Legion destroyed, he only ordered them subdued and brought to Terra for questioning. Horus modified the Emprah's orders so that Russ thought the Emprah wanted Magnus dead.

He was possibly the biggest Man-Child of all!!
Being inpatient and not trusting his daddy in the psychic realm, having the personal belief his powers out stripped his fathers based on nothing, except arrogance. Magnus had potential power, but wasted it doing pretty much no good. Then when he made a massive child like mistake (of thinking he was alway right, and wrecking the Emperor's work on Terra) he cracked the sads and sulked while his legion and planet burned.

Edit: should have read what Furyou Mike wrote above me, as he wrote what I did, but more clearly lol. I agree with Furyou Mike!

Leman Russ had a huge bone to pick with Magnus, and probably would have gladly killed the TS to a man with or without the interference of Horus. Leman Russ is the most brutal, savage, ruthless, and tactically genius primarch, with the wolves basically existing in order to execute other legions.

Magnus didn't want to fight another legion and ordered his legion not to fight, but when the wolves arrived the excessive violence and murder visited upon prospero goaded them into action.

If the emperor had given the task of bringing the TS to terra to any other legion, except probably the Night Lords, they might still be loyal. Maybe after they got back to terra the emps could have cured them, too. Maybe.

I think the Emperor's true crime happened when he discovered Magnus. "Oh son, your legion is suffering from mutigenic change brought on by a psychically unstable geneseed, I know that the warp is dangerous and you already have delved dangerously deep, But I'm gonna drop them off with you. You fix them and join up with us later. Try not to screw up yourself in some sort of faustian bargain. Good luck!"

 Rippy wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
Magnus is probably the one of the only Primarch who isn't just a man-child with too much power. His is a truly sad story.

Also, the Emprah didn't order his Legion destroyed, he only ordered them subdued and brought to Terra for questioning. Horus modified the Emprah's orders so that Russ thought the Emprah wanted Magnus dead.

He was possibly the biggest Man-Child of all!!
Being inpatient and not trusting his daddy in the psychic realm, having the personal belief his powers out stripped his fathers based on nothing, except arrogance. Magnus had potential power, but wasted it doing pretty much no good. Then when he made a massive child like mistake (of thinking he was alway right, and wrecking the Emperor's work on Terra) he cracked the sads and sulked while his legion and planet burned.

Edit: should have read what Furyou Mike wrote above me, as he wrote what I did, but more clearly lol. I agree with Furyou Mike!

Oh? And I suppose a real man would have sat idlt by whilst he watched his Legion mutate and die? A real man would accept the word of his father without any reasoning to back it up aside from "Because I said so!"

An adult would have tried to find out why... and an adult would have understood that if the freaking Emperor of Mankind tells you something is a bad idea, he probably knows something you don't.

On top of that, if your military commander orders you to do something regarding your army, you an adult will obey them on principle.

Well, I would like to point out that behaving like an incredibly emotional child isn't all that bad. Demigods have always been over-emotional metahumans that come with the fault of being tenfold greater then men, are also tenfold more emotional.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
An adult would have tried to find out why... and an adult would have understood that if the freaking Emperor of Mankind tells you something is a bad idea, he probably knows something you don't.

On top of that, if your military commander orders you to do something regarding your army, you an adult will obey them on principle.

Anathema screwed lots of thing himself, if you say to your kid do dont do something and as explanation say "coz I said so" its just wont do it...

Well, yes, the truth is that Empy really could have done with at least reading What Katy Did once in his life, but...

Haha Magnus never ever stated he knew the Great Ocean better than the Emperor, Stop making stuff up.
If the Emperor chose to at least share the basest of his knowledge of Chaos with his sons none of this would've happened.

Let's also ignore the fact any Primarch(Including Magnus!) would be reluctant to disobey the Emperor only in the direst of straits and the Emperor ignored Magnus' warning, on a principle, Now tell me Magnus is the manchild.

Besides every goddamn Primarch is a manchild, Magnus isn't that bad in comparison.

Khonsu wrote:


Besides every goddamn Primarch is a manchild, Magnus isn't that bad in comparison.

This is true

All I'm saying is, if Ahriman had been in charge all along? The Thousand Sons would still be loyalist.

Khonsu wrote:
Haha Magnus never ever stated he knew the Great Ocean better than the Emperor, Stop making stuff up.
If the Emperor chose to at least share the basest of his knowledge of Chaos with his sons none of this would've happened.

Let's also ignore the fact any Primarch(Including Magnus!) would be reluctant to disobey the Emperor only in the direst of straits and the Emperor ignored Magnus' warning, on a principle, Now tell me Magnus is the manchild.

Besides every goddamn Primarch is a manchild, Magnus isn't that bad in comparison.

Really? Have you read one thousand sons? Magnus starts to believe he is stronger than the emperor. Like a child. My 3 year old thinks he knows better than me.

And any Primarch would be reluctant to betray the Enperor except under sure circumstances? What about Mortarion, he needed a tiny push because of an old grudge (yes also childish).

I do agree with your point that they are all childish, though Magnus was one of the worst IMO. He didn't even have any conviction in his actions. I also agree that if the Emperor shared knowledge of Chaos with his sons that none of the Horus heresy would probably have happened. Some may have turned still, but not on same scale.

Magnus' crime was hubris.

Also; the emperor gives zero feths that his order was changed into a kill order. Magnus broke open a hole into the warp, inside the earth. It's on the "worst things possible" list.

The edict was entirely about Magnus. He pushed too far. A "tutelary", seriously? A tutelary is being of the warp and they think they are personal pokemons. I initially held the "oh I feel sorry he just meant well", but he received a biblical level warning in front of a whole bunch of people, went home and just did whatever he wanted.

Magnus is a really smart child. He probably needed a couple thousand years of personal growth to match his potential, get some wisdom.

Vulgar wrote:
Magnus is a really smart child. He probably needed a couple thousand years of personal growth to match his potential, get some wisdom.

This is a great point. The primarchs are demi-gods, but do not possess the wisdom gained through age at the same rate they obtain their powers! Imagine if your son had the ability to explode a person's head like a watermelon by age 5! On an ability-to-age basis, the primarchs are like this 5 year old!

 changerofways wrote:

Vulgar wrote:
Magnus is a really smart child. He probably needed a couple thousand years of personal growth to match his potential, get some wisdom.

This is a great point. The primarchs are demi-gods, but do not possess the wisdom gained through age at the same rate they obtain their powers! Imagine if your son had the ability to explode a person's head like a watermelon by age 5! On an ability-to-age basis, the primarchs are like this 5 year old!

I really like that idea. Imagine giving that power to a five year old, the results would be, oh how do I put it, chaotic

Magnus didn't do anything because he was entirely convinced that the punishment for his crime was death. This is a fairly reasonable thing to assume, given that his father told him "stop using psychic powers or I will literally kill you".

Why didn't The Emperor tell Magnus to come to Terra during their psychic phone call? If he already knew about Horus, why didn't he tell anyone? Why did he send Leman Russ, the one Primarch who hated Magnus more than any other?

Magnus was a child, but they all were. Every Primarch is an over-emotional teenager and it was the Emperor's responsibility to deal with that by being a good parent. Instead, he was outright cruel to them (Lorgar), willfully ignorant of their personal problems (Angron's hatred of him, Curze's insanity and paranoia, Mortarion's distrust of him, Perturabo's inadequacy complex) and very serious rivalries (knowing Perturabo's feelings and relationship with Rogal Dorn, giving Rogal Dorn the task of bolstering the Imperial Palace while giving Perturabo nothing and giving him no recognition for his abilities).

The Emperor was a really bad father, which is why the Heresy happened. They needed guidance and teaching, but all The Emperor gave them were orders, threats, and ignorance.

What was Magnus supposed to do? He had no idea why sorcery was bad, because The Emperor didn't explain it to him. He had no idea that contacting The Emperor would destroy the magical wards around the Imperial Palace because there was no way of knowing they were there in the first place, The Emperor having told no one about his plans. He had no way of knowing that The Emperor already knew about the traitor. Even if he had obeyed The Emperor's command and discontinued his practice of sorcery, he would have made the same decision regardless.

Of course the Primarchs weren't faultless, but they really were a collection of extremely emotional teenagers and The Emperor made very little effort to manage his investment into them.

 changerofways wrote:

Vulgar wrote:
Magnus is a really smart child. He probably needed a couple thousand years of personal growth to match his potential, get some wisdom.

This is a great point. The primarchs are demi-gods, but do not possess the wisdom gained through age at the same rate they obtain their powers! Imagine if your son had the ability to explode a person's head like a watermelon by age 5! On an ability-to-age basis, the primarchs are like this 5 year old!

When HH started primarchs was few centuris old, so I am not sure if call them "kids"

Well, he did try to alert the Emperor of the fact Horus was now against him, then he got punished for the way he did it.

This is really the crux of Magnus' story, the fact that he was some kind of a pawn in a really complicated scheme. It always felt like there was never a way for him to stay loyal with the way things were.

 Naberiel wrote:

 changerofways wrote:

Vulgar wrote:
Magnus is a really smart child. He probably needed a couple thousand years of personal growth to match his potential, get some wisdom.

This is a great point. The primarchs are demi-gods, but do not possess the wisdom gained through age at the same rate they obtain their powers! Imagine if your son had the ability to explode a person's head like a watermelon by age 5! On an ability-to-age basis, the primarchs are like this 5 year old!

When HH started primarchs was few centuris old, so I am not sure if call them "kids"

Not physically, mentally. This childish nature is where most of their problems stem from. It's not fair or accurate just to call them emotional teenagers, because over-emotional teenagers are capable of much more maturity than the Primarchs. They had petty rivalries with each other and most of them were incredibly dependent on The Emperor, which is why his sudden, unexplained disappearance caused so many problems for them, making them feel abandoned and confirming their hidden suspicions that Horus was daddy's favourite (because he was made Warmaster).

We probably should make now threat for this debate as we get little off with it, but yeah its really dont mater if Magnus was childish or not as he was just a pawn of Tzeentch so he was unable to do something against it even if he want to.