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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 18:52:02
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Martel732 wrote:If you want to keep the invinco-Riptide, fine. Just pay for the invincibility.
oh damn i didnt wanted to write here again, that was what i said to myself yesterday and here i am again writing my third post...
I said that the rip is to durable and has with the ion to much output so pls dont say that i want to keep the invinco-rip, pls read what i wrote.
I also wrote that all we write here with suggestions what to change how is all complete irrelevant because gw is the only what chagnes things they think should be
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 18:55:15
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Maybe a better thread theme would have been which units need buffed and which need nerfed. Because I know there are Tau units that I never see used.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 18:55:52
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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The Wise Dane wrote:xsharkmanx wrote:to say my thoughts to rips and reducing T or W of them, i use only one in my armys and would use a second one at 2000pt and more. I like how it moves the same way like krisis and that is the main reason why i want to play it. The ion is to strong, thats clear and it needs to cost more points.
But if you reduce the wounds or toughness, then i am sure that i wont play the rip like before because i have to be so much more carefull that it will constantly scratch my tableedge and be as far away from the opponent as possible. Until now i played the rip offensive and like i said only one so if you have tauplayer that are not only bringing three of them into play than it should be allright and a more attractive play but if you reduce the T or W than it will be boring like hell because than it will be clear how the tau will react to this - hate generates only opposing hate.
At the end i want to ask you:
Why do you have such threads and discuss how you would nerf this and that? You cant change things, only gw can this do and the new taucodex will maybe there in summer? I dont know what you want with these threads cause they only make you hate the specific unit/combo/army or do you want to see that all are the same oppinion like you?
I dont meen it offensive but i really want to know what you really want to archive with these.
Why we do this? An absolutely fantastic cocktail of a need to create chaos and conflict, to escape boredom, and most importantly, for the lulz
Of what you wrote, I got tgat you were afraid that the unit would play differebtly if reduced in overall toughness, which is exactly what I'm aiming at - I want people to use it differently, as it's supposed to - right now, nothing can really scratch it, and cover won't be needed for the most part... But with a reduction in T and a Vindicator bearing down on you, you will embrace the tried and true JSJ to a whole new degree!
Now, as you explain, that would make you put the Riptide as far away from anything as possible, and that's of course not the point... What I'd do is to reduce tge range of the IA to 36'', and MAYBE the HBC to 24". Why? Firstly, it will force the player to risk the Riptide when using it's weapons, but as long as there's no S 10 close, it should actually be fine against most shooting, as plenty of mathhammerers in this thread have proved. Secondly, it will mske it fit the role of a "breakthrough unit", as right now, it's more of an artillery piece than anything... And that's what we have the Hammerhead and Skyray for. Bear in mind, I do believe that it should be a bit cheaper for it, to compensate.
With these changes, I hope it will be used as the giant, wellarmoured Crisis Suit it is, and not as a moving, shooting, tanking artillery piece. It will change up how you play, but that's the best part - If there's something I love about the new codexes, it's the fact that you can't just play as you've always done anymore. You got to adapt... Just like tge Tau has always done! 
A lotta people are complaining about it's damage and really it's damage is only too high because you can't stop it. It's too far away to reach and what can reach it just bounces off. Lowering it's general toughness and reducing it's weapons range would make it have weaknesses. ALL UNITS NEED weaknesses. These changes would make a big difference.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 18:56:18
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Martel732 wrote:Maybe a better thread theme would have been which units need buffed and which need nerfed. Because I know there are Tau units that I never see used.
Perhaps.
How on earth would you buff vespids
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 18:57:40
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Desubot wrote:Martel732 wrote:Maybe a better thread theme would have been which units need buffed and which need nerfed. Because I know there are Tau units that I never see used.
Perhaps.
How on earth would you buff vespids
Easily. Give them mecha-bug suits that confer a 3+ save. So now they are 3+ jump troops with AP 3 guns. I'm not against giving lists nasty stuff, it just needs to be costed correctly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:02:12
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
Denmark.
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xsharkmanx wrote: The Wise Dane wrote:Why we do this? An absolutely fantastic cocktail of a need to create chaos and conflict, to escape boredom, and most importantly, for the lulz
Of what you wrote, I got tgat you were afraid that the unit would play differebtly if reduced in overall toughness, which is exactly what I'm aiming at - I want people to use it differently, as it's supposed to - right now, nothing can really scratch it, and cover won't be needed for the most part... But with a reduction in T and a Vindicator bearing down on you, you will embrace the tried and true JSJ to a whole new degree!
Now, as you explain, that would make you put the Riptide as far away from anything as possible, and that's of course not the point... What I'd do is to reduce tge range of the IA to 36'', and MAYBE the HBC to 24". Why? Firstly, it will force the player to risk the Riptide when using it's weapons, but as long as there's no S 10 close, it should actually be fine against most shooting, as plenty of mathhammerers in this thread have proved. Secondly, it will mske it fit the role of a "breakthrough unit", as right now, it's more of an artillery piece than anything... And that's what we have the Hammerhead and Skyray for. Bear in mind, I do believe that it should be a bit cheaper for it, to compensate.
With these changes, I hope it will be used as the giant, wellarmoured Crisis Suit it is, and not as a moving, shooting, tanking artillery piece. It will change up how you play, but that's the best part - If there's something I love about the new codexes, it's the fact that you can't just play as you've always done anymore. You got to adapt... Just like tge Tau has always done! 
I am not afraid that the rip will be played different, im afraid that the game will be boring as hell against/with tau because nobody would risk to get a 200pt model instakilled with a toughness x2hit. At first you suggested to decrease T and/or W and to get around the new problem which would be created of your change you want to nerf the rip again? hm i dont know what to say but that isnt the right thing/way.
I agree that the rip takes to much firepower to die but reducing T/W isnt the right way, maybe i would delete the option for the 3+.
The Ion is to cheap for what it can do so higher costs and range to max 48" would be ok imo.
48'' Might work too. Right now we are talking about it like the Riptide always will be one-hitted by, say, a Vindicator, but when it gets down to it it's not that simple. First of all, S 10 is rather rare in a ranged form. It's everywhere in melee units, but at longer range, you have to settle with either short range (Vindicator, Demolisher) or one shot (Taychons Arrow, Railgun). This is not something everybody has - In fact, most factions don't have easy access to it. On top of that, the Riptide has a naive 5++ save that will save it 1/3, which isn't much, but still is rather good. Lastly, the platforms on which the S 10 weapons are, are usually easily avoided by a JSJ unit, and can often be shot off the table, if you do it right.
And that's the point - Now you have to do it right. The Riptide will still be very tough and will still be able to tank hits like a melon-fether, but it can't do it without having synergy and support by the rest of the army. It's not always you get a S 10 enemy, but when you do, it'll change up your battleplan - If not, then you just can't play the model right. In any rate, it also gives a really, really good reason to use the 3++ - Do I risk taking a wound, for a higher chance of eliminating a S 10 hit? Or do I maybe opt for the long jump ability, to avoid short ranged weaponry?
I do get your point that it will be too expensive to throw out, but that's not so much of a problem. You could reduce the base cost with 25 pt or so, and it will still be mighty hardy. This then means that you can use a HBC without upgrades as a rather cheap MC to do some damage, then die, or put some points in it and get an IA and some wargear, wellknowing that you need to defend it well now.
Come to think of it, you could actually remove the Invulnerability Save and Nova Ability completely, and then give it the option to have an Power Field 4++ for, like, 60 pt or something, reducing the base cost even further
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:09:29
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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The Wise Dane wrote:xsharkmanx wrote: The Wise Dane wrote:Why we do this? An absolutely fantastic cocktail of a need to create chaos and conflict, to escape boredom, and most importantly, for the lulz
Of what you wrote, I got tgat you were afraid that the unit would play differebtly if reduced in overall toughness, which is exactly what I'm aiming at - I want people to use it differently, as it's supposed to - right now, nothing can really scratch it, and cover won't be needed for the most part... But with a reduction in T and a Vindicator bearing down on you, you will embrace the tried and true JSJ to a whole new degree!
Now, as you explain, that would make you put the Riptide as far away from anything as possible, and that's of course not the point... What I'd do is to reduce tge range of the IA to 36'', and MAYBE the HBC to 24". Why? Firstly, it will force the player to risk the Riptide when using it's weapons, but as long as there's no S 10 close, it should actually be fine against most shooting, as plenty of mathhammerers in this thread have proved. Secondly, it will mske it fit the role of a "breakthrough unit", as right now, it's more of an artillery piece than anything... And that's what we have the Hammerhead and Skyray for. Bear in mind, I do believe that it should be a bit cheaper for it, to compensate.
With these changes, I hope it will be used as the giant, wellarmoured Crisis Suit it is, and not as a moving, shooting, tanking artillery piece. It will change up how you play, but that's the best part - If there's something I love about the new codexes, it's the fact that you can't just play as you've always done anymore. You got to adapt... Just like tge Tau has always done! 
I am not afraid that the rip will be played different, im afraid that the game will be boring as hell against/with tau because nobody would risk to get a 200pt model instakilled with a toughness x2hit. At first you suggested to decrease T and/or W and to get around the new problem which would be created of your change you want to nerf the rip again? hm i dont know what to say but that isnt the right thing/way.
I agree that the rip takes to much firepower to die but reducing T/W isnt the right way, maybe i would delete the option for the 3+.
The Ion is to cheap for what it can do so higher costs and range to max 48" would be ok imo.
48'' Might work too. Right now we are talking about it like the Riptide always will be one-hitted by, say, a Vindicator, but when it gets down to it it's not that simple. First of all, S 10 is rather rare in a ranged form. It's everywhere in melee units, but at longer range, you have to settle with either short range (Vindicator, Demolisher) or one shot (Taychons Arrow, Railgun). This is not something everybody has - In fact, most factions don't have easy access to it. On top of that, the Riptide has a naive 5++ save that will save it 1/3, which isn't much, but still is rather good. Lastly, the platforms on which the S 10 weapons are, are usually easily avoided by a JSJ unit, and can often be shot off the table, if you do it right.
And that's the point - Now you have to do it right. The Riptide will still be very tough and will still be able to tank hits like a melon-fether, but it can't do it without having synergy and support by the rest of the army. It's not always you get a S 10 enemy, but when you do, it'll change up your battleplan - If not, then you just can't play the model right. In any rate, it also gives a really, really good reason to use the 3++ - Do I risk taking a wound, for a higher chance of eliminating a S 10 hit? Or do I maybe opt for the long jump ability, to avoid short ranged weaponry?
I do get your point that it will be too expensive to throw out, but that's not so much of a problem. You could reduce the base cost with 25 pt or so, and it will still be mighty hardy. This then means that you can use a HBC without upgrades as a rather cheap MC to do some damage, then die, or put some points in it and get an IA and some wargear, wellknowing that you need to defend it well now.
Come to think of it, you could actually remove the Invulnerability Save and Nova Ability completely, and then give it the option to have an Power Field 4++ for, like, 60 pt or something, reducing the base cost even further 
Str 10 is so rare in ranged form...it's risk is negligible. and you still ignore wounds from it of successful hits on 3+/5+....which is a 22% chance. So roughly 4 shots from a vindi a turn to take it down on average - it shoots 1 shot a turn at range 24 with sides exposed to str 5 pulse rifles at this range...it's only going to get 1 shot. Advantage riptide.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:09:39
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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The Wise Dane wrote: 48'' Might work too. Right now we are talking about it like the Riptide always will be one-hitted by, say, a Vindicator, but when it gets down to it it's not that simple. First of all, S 10 is rather rare in a ranged form. It's everywhere in melee units, but at longer range, you have to settle with either short range (Vindicator, Demolisher) or one shot (Taychons Arrow, Railgun). This is not something everybody has - In fact, most factions don't have easy access to it. On top of that, the Riptide has a naive 5++ save that will save it 1/3, which isn't much, but still is rather good. Lastly, the platforms on which the S 10 weapons are, are usually easily avoided by a JSJ unit, and can often be shot off the table, if you do it right. And that's the point - Now you have to do it right. The Riptide will still be very tough and will still be able to tank hits like a melon-fether, but it can't do it without having synergy and support by the rest of the army. It's not always you get a S 10 enemy, but when you do, it'll change up your battleplan - If not, then you just can't play the model right. In any rate, it also gives a really, really good reason to use the 3++ - Do I risk taking a wound, for a higher chance of eliminating a S 10 hit? Or do I maybe opt for the long jump ability, to avoid short ranged weaponry? I do get your point that it will be too expensive to throw out, but that's not so much of a problem. You could reduce the base cost with 25 pt or so, and it will still be mighty hardy. This then means that you can use a HBC without upgrades as a rather cheap MC to do some damage, then die, or put some points in it and get an IA and some wargear, wellknowing that you need to defend it well now. Come to think of it, you could actually remove the Invulnerability Save and Nova Ability completely, and then give it the option to have an Power Field 4++ for, like, 60 pt or something, reducing the base cost even further  i mentioned the exact same thing for the t5 but it got dismissed :/. i dont think its necessary to remove the nova ability as it really fits the theme of "experimental" if anything it should just specificy no FNP allowed against its wound. Now the other issue would be the earth caste thingy from farsight. it at best should be rerolls of 1 or just bump up the roll for nova. and not hand out ammo dump.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 19:10:12
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:11:26
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Martel732 wrote: Desubot wrote:Martel732 wrote:Maybe a better thread theme would have been which units need buffed and which need nerfed. Because I know there are Tau units that I never see used.
Perhaps.
How on earth would you buff vespids
Easily. Give them mecha-bug suits that confer a 3+ save. So now they are 3+ jump troops with AP 3 guns. I'm not against giving lists nasty stuff, it just needs to be costed correctly.
They can actually made into pretty good anti- meq assault units quite easily as well.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:12:27
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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But who needs anti-meq when the Riptide already killed them all?High model count armies are a much bigger threat. 4-5 good template hits and the marines are done.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 19:12:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:15:01
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Martel732 wrote:But who needs anti- meq when the Riptide already killed them all?High model count armies are a much bigger threat. 4-5 good template hits and the marines are done.
Arnt they supposed to have some kinda neural weapon or was it neutron?
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:22:56
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Fireknife Shas'el
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I'm still confused. How is it the HBC Riptide should be nerfed down while the Dreadknight is just fine with similar stats but one less wound?
Why not just remove FNP all together and let it keep the extra wound and T6? The extra wound really is just to balance out that it has get's hot and Nova charge failures.
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I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."
"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:23:20
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Desubot wrote:Martel732 wrote:But who needs anti- meq when the Riptide already killed them all?High model count armies are a much bigger threat. 4-5 good template hits and the marines are done.
Arnt they supposed to have some kinda neural weapon or was it neutron?
Neutron weapon. Using crystals from the core of some planet or something. Cool fluff, really. Horrible model in the game. Typical GW.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:27:22
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Savageconvoy wrote:I'm still confused. How is it the HBC Riptide should be nerfed down while the Dreadknight is just fine with similar stats but one less wound?
Who keeps saying the DK is fine?
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:28:45
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I'd also be more than willing to lose the Get Hot on the HBC. That weapon is being unfairly punished in comparison to the IA.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:54:33
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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So far I think the best solution is to change the Ion Accelerator. S7 AP3 Heavy 3 Range:48" Nova Charged: S9 AP2 Heavy 1 Range 36" Large Blast, Gets Hot, Ordnance Reduced range so now it has to close with the enemy, not just sit back and delete. Further reduced range when you're nova charging it to represent the amount of energy that is being put in to get it to explode with higher strength and AP. Also means that it can't move and fire the large blast (Ordnance rule). This means that if it wants to hit a unit with that large blast, it will have to get into position the turn before.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 19:56:07
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:55:45
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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36" is not close. That's the range were scatterlasers just LULZ marines off the table with impunity.
However, ordnance helps a lot with your change. Very anime, too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 19:59:36
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Id rather it be the same as the standard ion cannon so keep the 60" have a overcharge version to ap3 large blast then the nova version that bumps up to ST8-9 ap2 and ordance that cannot be used again in the following turn.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:00:04
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:00:41
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
Denmark.
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A Town Called Malus wrote:So far I think the best solution is to change the Ion Accelerator.
S7 AP3 Heavy 3 Range:48"
Nova Charged: S9 AP2 Heavy 1 Range 36" Large Blast, Gets Hot, Ordnance
Reduced range so now it has to close with the enemy, not just sit back and delete. Further reduced range when you're nova charging it to represent the amount of energy that is being put in to get it to explode with higher strength and AP.
Also means that it can't move and fire the large blast (Ordnance rule). This means that if it wants to hit a unit with that large blast, it will have to get into position the turn before.
Not bad, not bad at all. Maybe that's the most sensible - Just change what the Riptide gets, not what it is.
Higher cost to the Ion Accelerator, very high price to FNP, or maybe removing it altogether, remove Gets Hot! for the Heavy Burst Cannon... It would be a lot better, then
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:17:28
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Martel732 wrote:36" is not close. That's the range were scatterlasers just LULZ marines off the table with impunity. However, ordnance helps a lot with your change. Very anime, too. It's quite close when you have to get into position the turn before you can fire. That gives the unit that you think is the target a turn to try and get out of range, spread out to minimise casualties etc. Then there's the possibility that on the turn you want to fire the blast, after spending a turn getting into the right position, the Nova charge fails.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:22:15
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:18:41
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Fixture of Dakka
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I really don't think most Tide-haters think 'Knights, of any flavor, are actually good for the game.
Tides cost substantially less than a Land Raider. With better firepower and range.
Land Raider can be one shot by a s10 weapon (most are ap2/1).
So why is it so game-breaking for Tides to be vulnerable to S10?
For that matter, what makes a Tide so stupendously more survivable than a heavily armored Demon Prince?
T5 seems to sound right. I'd prefer classifying the Tau walker as a walker, but that isn't going to happen (the whole 'Tau don't develop walkers' means they don't make Riptides. So either abandon Tides, or abandon that line).
Although I think I'd prefer Broadsides be t5 3+, and Tides be t6 3+. They're the same tech as Crisis Suits, only more durable/tougher. Seems like a Krak missile should get through their armor easily, but not outright blow them apart with a single missile.
But then, I doubt I'll ever add a Tide to my Tau anyways.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:21:53
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Desubot wrote:Id rather it be the same as the standard ion cannon so keep the 60" have a overcharge version to ap3 large blast then the nova version that bumps up to ST8-9 ap2 and ordance that cannot be used again in the following turn. I thought about that but that didn't address some of the problems, in my opinion. 60" range still gives it the ability to touch most of the board and a standard overcharge shot leads to the current problem that it wouldn't need to nova-charge the gun to take out large units of infantry, unless they were TEQs. As it is now, the IA has a 1/6 chance (Gets Hot) of not being able to drop a large blast anywhere on the board. That 1/6 chance can be reduced to a 1/36 chance by markerlights making it BS6. That basically makes the risk of the IA not dropping a large blast non existent. So we'd still end up with static riptides who only nova charge for the 3++.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:26:48
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:25:00
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Bharring wrote:I really don't think most Tide-haters think 'Knights, of any flavor, are actually good for the game.
Tides cost substantially less than a Land Raider. With better firepower and range.
Land Raider can be one shot by a s10 weapon (most are ap2/1).
So why is it so game-breaking for Tides to be vulnerable to S10?
For that matter, what makes a Tide so stupendously more survivable than a heavily armored Demon Prince?
T5 seems to sound right. I'd prefer classifying the Tau walker as a walker, but that isn't going to happen (the whole 'Tau don't develop walkers' means they don't make Riptides. So either abandon Tides, or abandon that line).
Although I think I'd prefer Broadsides be t5 3+, and Tides be t6 3+. They're the same tech as Crisis Suits, only more durable/tougher. Seems like a Krak missile should get through their armor easily, but not outright blow them apart with a single missile.
But then, I doubt I'll ever add a Tide to my Tau anyways.
its ok when the rip is vulnerable to S10 weapons but Dreadknights and wraithknights have also better defensive and offensive than a land raider so they should be vulnerable to this sort of weapons, too. Dont know what to do with tyraMCs, dont have experience with them.
The point which is not into account is, that the raider is a transporter for terminator so that they get into cc and that is his main task not to shoot down whole armys by itself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:26:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:30:58
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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A Town Called Malus wrote: Desubot wrote:Id rather it be the same as the standard ion cannon so keep the 60" have a overcharge version to ap3 large blast then the nova version that bumps up to ST8-9 ap2 and ordance that cannot be used again in the following turn. I thought about that but that didn't address some of the problems, in my opinion. 60" range still gives it the ability to touch most of the board and a standard overcharge shot leads to the current problem that it wouldn't need to nova-charge the gun to take out large units of infantry, unless they were TEQs. As it is now, the IA has a 1/6 chance (Gets Hot) of not being able to drop a large blast anywhere on the board. That 1/6 chance can be reduced to a 1/36 chance by markerlights making it BS6. That basically makes the risk of the IA not dropping a large blast non existent. So we'd still end up with static riptides who only nova charge for the 3++. Its Tau its never going to not be static. The BS6 thing doesn't necessarily let you "the ability to reroll ones" at least thats how its been played in my area (not that its ever come up) Also i would Really prefer the 3++ be a 4++ for shooting 3++ for CC or within like 12" or something.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:31:42
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:34:14
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Fixture of Dakka
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No one model should have the job of 'shoot down an entire army themself'.
The DK is already less survivable than the Tide by about 20%. And the WK costs a *lot* more, and needs to threaten melee to be effective. The Tide has better shooting and range for less, and so should be less survivable. Not that I wouldn't mind seeimg those two also knocked down a peg. Automatically Appended Next Post: I don't know that the Tide needs help in melee. It'll still beat a 10man Tac squad w/ a melta bomb rather easily.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:35:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:37:14
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Desubot wrote: Its Tau its never going to not be static. The BS6 thing doesn't necessarily let you "the ability to reroll ones" at least thats how its been played in my area (not that its ever come up) Also i would Really prefer the 3++ be a 4++ for shooting 3++ for CC or within like 12" or something. The BS6 thing used to be unclear in 6th but the 7th book specifically mentions it as allowing you to re-roll Gets Hot! for weapons which don't roll to hit, now. If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit. And I disagree about Tau always being static. Crisis suits with Plasma Rifles have to move, as do Fusion Blaster suits. Missilesides and Missile Crisis suits have 36" range and so can be outranged by Lascannons and missile launchers which can ID them, so they often have to move. Fire Warriors are quite static, but don't need to be on a board with plenty of cover for them. Really the only unit which fits the static bill is the 72" IA Riptide (and possibly our tanks as they can no longer move and shoot like fast vehicles and typically have the range to sit still) If we remove the massive range of the Riptide then we're forced to move to close with the enemy, else opponents can just sit outside 36" with Lascannons and Krak missiles and their equivalents and take out our stronger units.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 20:44:00
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:39:04
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Bharring wrote:And the WK costs a *lot* more, and needs to threaten melee to be effective.
Not sure about that.
I think it's fair to say 2 36" S10 AP2 guns that can remove units from the game are also quite effective.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 20:40:08
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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A Town Called Malus wrote: Desubot wrote:
Its Tau
its never going to not be static.
The BS6 thing doesn't necessarily let you "the ability to reroll ones" at least thats how its been played in my area (not that its ever come up)
Also i would Really prefer the 3++ be a 4++ for shooting 3++ for CC or within like 12" or something.
The BS6 thing used to be unclear in 6th but the 7th book specifically mentions it as allowing you to re-roll Gets Hot! for weapons which don't roll to hit, now.
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.
Ah good to know. i think i had that engrained since 6th
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 21:42:48
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
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One thing that's bothering me and it keeps coming up.
How is one unit with a single S8 ap2 blast destroying entire armies? More specifically in 1 turn.
Also a lascannon on a riptide is 2/3 hit then 5/6 wound then 1/3 save (5++).
So 0.66x0.83x0.33=0.18
Guess what that is the same as?
Terminators
Dreadknights and anything else with a 5++
Guess what else Meltaguns have the same effect, so does everything strength 8 and above with ap2 or better.
I realise you might not use a lascannon to kill a terminator, my point is maths doesn't really prove that much.
I want to generally be helpful here.
Who was it who had BA with issues killing a riptide?
Take a 5 man assault squad with 2 Meltaguns and 2 fusion pistols in a drop pod. Cost 135 point and drop it next to the riptide and then move like 1"-2" away and space them out.
Take 2 for redundancy purposes.
What is the math for that? I'm not sure. But I'm sure it'll take 2/3 wounds bear in mind this is turn 1 and the riptide probably isn't 3++ (although it might or have lost a wound).
Just a suggestion. I build marines squads for specific purposes.
Blood Angels are pretty good at podding. I appreciate the cost might be restrictive.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also BA command squad with Meltaguns in pod is 165? With feel no pain. They're pretty good. Obviously if you don't have/use pods. It might be an issue
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 21:46:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/09 21:47:13
Subject: How I think Tau should be nerfed
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Douglas Bader
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Boniface wrote:How is one unit with a single S8 ap2 blast destroying entire armies?
It isn't. The issue isn't a single Riptide in an army with a bunch of weaker units, it's armies that build a gunline around multiple Riptides.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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