How I think Tau should be nerfed

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**rigeld2**

SGTPozy wrote:
Who uses Paladins? Therefore irrelevant.

... lots of people? And handwaving units away doesn't support your argument.

Yes, other stuff is equal against normal stuff but what about against a Riptide in combat? Str10 really helps there. Same as with against vehicles; auto pen.

So you're going to ignore that I mentioned Hammers. cool story bro.

So you're ignoring T6's benefits on the Dreadknight but it benefits he Riptide greatly? Wow, just wow.

Nope. Just acknowledging that the Riptide can stay back and shoot from a distance. The DK can't.

No you didn't, just like I didn't disagree that the Riptide is powerful. The Dreadknight has the same toughness and save...

And a model is more than just toughness and save.

Where did he say deep strike?

Sorry, I read that in there but he didn't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

http://marticlan.info/images/lblast2.jpg
http://marticlan.info/images/lblast2-ctr.jpg

I was giving you an average based on my experience in 40k. In a real game scenerio units have to clump up for all kinds of reasons a lot of them are out of your control. If units never bunched up there would be almost no reason to ever use a large blast template.

Your statement was that it would hit 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches. If they are clumped for "all kinds of reasons" they are not spaced out 2 inches.

**Xenomancers**

LordBlades wrote:
As a side-note, is anyone else than GK fieldimg Termies without TH/SS and expects them to do something else than diehorribly?

Nope - just GK.

**SGTPozy**

Tau have to have the marker light guys alive (any competent player would kill them frst), they need to be in range and Lin of sight of the unit. They have to hit, and since most people run them in small squads it is average to get 1 (after damage to the unit)

**Desubot**

Well does the markerlight really need a nerf?

I think with some points adjustments we could have a more intresting system.

Perhaps make it rapid fire instead of heavy. or salvo of some sort but drop the range from 36 to maybe 30-24. making pathfinders a bit more mobile then sit in ruins and point flashlights.

if we could allow them to hit with a little bit more light, then there wouldnt be an issue with making coversave reductions cost 1 light each.

Edit Also no overwatching lights.

thats silly.

Edit: VVVVVV if that is directed at me i did say points adjustments.

**BoomWolf**

And yet people seem to keep failing to grasp the simple fact that markerlights costs points.
These "tons of markerlights" tau players get, means they field 15%-25% less actual guns.

**SGTPozy**

rigeld2 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Who uses Paladins? Therefore irrelevant.

... lots of people? And handwaving units away doesn't support your argument.

Paladins are generally considered to be as useful as Vespid for Tau. Yes it does if it isn't comparable. I could say that the Riptide is naked and has the Burst Cannon, but that isn't commonly used so we compare it t the net build.

Yes, other stuff is equal against normal stuff but what about against a Riptide in combat? Str10 really helps there. Same as with against vehicles; auto pen.

So you're going to ignore that I mentioned Hammers. cool story bro.

Hammer make you strike at I1, whilst Dreaknights strike at their own initiative.

So you're ignoring T6's benefits on the Dreadknight but it benefits he Riptide greatly? Wow, just wow.

Nope. Just acknowledging that the Riptide can stay back and shoot from a distance. The DK can't.

The Dreadknight can stay 24" away and that's outside of rapid fire range.

No you didn't, just like I didn't disagree that the Riptide is powerful. The Dreadknight has the same toughness and save...

And a model is more than just toughness and save.

Yes, but they are important. That is the reason why nurgle bikers are more survivable than guardsmen (better toughness and save).

Where did he say deep strike?

Sorry, I read that in there but he didn't.

I forgive you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

http://marticlan.info/images/lblast2.jpg
http://marticlan.info/images/lblast2-ctr.jpg

I was giving you an average based on my experience in 40k. In a real game scenerio units have to clump up for all kinds of reasons a lot of them are out of your control. If units never bunched up there would be almost no reason to ever use a large blast template.

Your statement was that it would hit 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches. If they are clumped for "all kinds of reasons" they are not spaced out 2 inches.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BoomWolf wrote:
And yet people seem to keep failing to grasp the simple fact that markerlights costs points.
These "tons of markerlights" tau players get, means they field 15%-25% less actual guns.

This 100%.

**rigeld2**

You messed up the quotes, so forgive me if I misattribute something.

Paladins are generally considered to be as useful as Vespid for Tau. Yes it does if it isn't comparable. I could say that the Riptide is naked and has the Burst Cannon, but that isn't commonly used so we compare it t the net build.

Really? Whatever - Terminators with Psycannons. Purifiers with - wait for it - Psycannons. Get the picture?

Hammer make you strike at I1, whilst Dreaknights strike at their own initiative.

... and? Against vehicles that's irrelevant and against bigger monsters it's your own fault if you kill the hammer guys first in CC.

The Dreadknight can stay 24" away and that's outside of rapid fire range.

Which DK are you arguing for? The Torrent (with a max range of ~20" if it only wants one hit) or the Gatling Psilencer that does have Force, but is only S4.

Yes, but they are important. That is the reason why nurgle bikers are more survivable than guardsmen (better toughness and save).

I never said they weren't. But all you've done is take sections of the model out of context.

**Ignatius**

"Paladins are generally considered to be as useful as Vespid for Tau. Yes it does if it isn't comparable. I could say that the Riptide is naked and has the Burst Cannon, but that isn't commonly used so we compare it t the net build."

This is wrong. You are wrong.

**Xenomancers**

Ignatius wrote:
"Paladins are generally considered to be as useful as Vespid for Tau. Yes it does if it isn't comparable. I could say that the Riptide is naked and has the Burst Cannon, but that isn't commonly used so we compare it t the net build."

This is wrong. You are wrong.

Paladins are great en mass. I usual just take the terminators with 1 wound but paladins are a much better buff unit.

**Ignatius**

Xenomancers wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
"Paladins are generally considered to be as useful as Vespid for Tau. Yes it does if it isn't comparable. I could say that the Riptide is naked and has the Burst Cannon, but that isn't commonly used so we compare it t the net build."

This is wrong. You are wrong.

Paladins are great en mass. I usual just take the terminators with 1 wound but paladins are a much better buff unit.

I agree. I was addressing the point made that Paladins are so horribly bad that no one ever plays with them except in the most fluff oriented lists imaginable. That was the comparison. That Paladins are like Vespid. Which is wrong.

**Quickjager**

Paladins are great except when they get doubled out by a certain unit that we are discussing...

**Martel732**

Quickjager wrote:
Paladins are great except when they get doubled out by a certain unit that we are discussing...

Exalted for truth.

Despite all my posts, I am NOT anti-Tau. In fact, I rather like the theme of the list and I am sad that many Tau models don't get fielded because of their mathematical inferiority.

I am just anti-absurd. If there were a unit in my own BA that was mispointed, I would be down on it as well. However, GW did not see fit to give BA anything remotely undercosted. It's good to be the privileged few with the units that get flamed.

**Xenomancers**

Martel732 wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
Paladins are great except when they get doubled out by a certain unit that we are discussing...

Exalted for truth.

Despite all my posts, I am NOT anti-Tau. In fact, I rather like the theme of the list and I am sad that many Tau models don't get fielded because of their mathematical inferiority.

I am just anti-absurd. If there were a unit in my own BA that was mispointed, I would be down on it as well. However, GW did not see fit to give BA anything remotely undercosted. It's good to be the privileged few with the units that get flamed.

BA get the shaft for being OP as heck in 5th - lol. In all seriousness DA and BA should be two of the strongest chapters and they are the two worst. I bet theres a direct link to why they suck....IE most marine players played BA or DA already so they got noticeably weaker books. I feel so bad for my DA...but when i think about playing with them - I want to throw up or just start thinking about taking 3 knights with them to give the a chance - I'd have to buy 2 more knights to do that.

I'm not anti tau ether. Anti absurd is correct.

**Martel732**

BA weren't even that OP in 5th. There were four other lists that were better. I beat so many enemy BA lists that were considered "superior" it's crazy. BA were easy to beat on the table with generalship because they required assaults.