Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No, I don't think the wording would support that. I'm not sure why no one has mentioned it but wouldn't simply putting the dread in the back of the storm raven and dropping it off that way (which deploys it via deep strike) work instead? Just make sure you drop it within 6" of the final position of the storm raven so you can get the locator beacon bonus and the rule from the formation.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So despite them being Teleport Homers, it works on stuff other than Terminators? I guess I am happy with that.

Well the picture if correct does say Deep Strike. So that would include assaults with jump packs, DC, Sang Guard, Terms , possibly dreads even, but it is all in how it is worded. As the picture is not totally clear it is hard to say 100%. A better picture without question will tell the tale.

WarBoss may be correct. After all it does not mean that dreads could not roll with the formation they would just not get all the bonuses. I would look less at Dreads personally and more at the aspect of DC and Terms will do for a more models for points value.

Sorry, my post was not related to the issue of Dreads. I just think it is cool it works for all Deep Striking stuff.

Fireraven wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?

Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.

This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.

aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.

Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works

 akwing00 wrote:

Fireraven wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?

Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.

This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.

aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.

Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works

All I guess if the rules say that models inside a transport are on the battlefield then they can. After all models inside a transport with fire points after all can fire out of the transports via firing points.

 akwing00 wrote:

Fireraven wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?

Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.

This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.

aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.

Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works

You could just use the Skies of Fury rule and drop your tac squads during the first turn from your zooming Raven

benjak wrote:

 akwing00 wrote:

Fireraven wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?

Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.

This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.

aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.

Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works

You could just use the Skies of Fury rule and drop your tac squads during the first turn from your zooming Raven

True, just trying to think of ways to take advantage of the models being able to assault out of deep strike especially if they come on turn 2. Skies of fury would probably work best even with the scatter, I think coming on in hover mode, might not get you close enough

So can someone clarify the rule.

So let me get this straight.
-So the entire formation comes in on Turn 2 (3+ re-rollable).
-You can choose to either have the Ravens come in either zooming or Hover mode.

When are you allowed to take advantage of the teleport homers?

Are subsequent DS units allowed to use them Turn 2?

Also can DS units be affected by the Homer even if the model holding the Homer is inside a vehicle? In other words do the Tacs have to get out of the Stormravens?

So can someone clarify the rule.

So let me get this straight.
-So the entire formation comes in on Turn 2 (3+ re-rollable).
Turn 1 actually
-You can choose to either have the Ravens come in either zooming or Hover mode.
Yup
When are you allowed to take advantage of the teleport homers?
At the start of the turn when you roll for reserves
Are subsequent DS units allowed to use them Turn 2?
Yup. If the unit bearing the teleport homer is on the board at the start of turn 2

Also can DS units be affected by the Homer even if the model holding the Homer is inside a vehicle? In other words do the Tacs have to get out of the Stormravens?
I want to know the answer to this as well. Can teleport homers work inside vehicles?

I appreciate your response Benjak!

So the reason this Formation comes in on the board Turn 1 is because of its rule?

If we are allowed to use the Teleport Homer while inside the vehicle that would be preferred

HalfBlood wrote:
I appreciate your response Benjak!

So the reason this Formation comes in on the board Turn 1 is because of its rule?

If we are allowed to use the Teleport Homer while inside the vehicle that would be preferred

Yup. Its the Formation's special rule.

If Teleport Homers do work from inside vehicles that would make the formation much pretty overpowered to the point of brokenness

The issue is you are investing 1020 (before upgrades).

That gives you

3 Storm Ravens
3 10X Tac

I assume you will then beef up your squad this some special weapons.

I can see each Tac unit taking Heavy Flamer and Flamer because they are all the rage. Maybe throw in a Combi Weapon? No Idea.

But lets say you do

1 StormRaven
10 Tac
-HF
-F
355


1 StormRaven
10 Tac
-HF
-F
355


1 StormRaven
10 Tac
340

=1,050

Now you need to pay your Troop Tax (For the other CAD). Even though you already have 3 Tac squads.


I can see this formation being a no-brainer in lists ~2000-2500, but fitting it into 1850 competitive is tough.

Well for 1750 You can get:

HQ
Librarian (Galians staff, melta-bomb)

Elites
Death Company 8 (x1 power weapon, x1 powerfist, jump packs)
Terminator Assault Squad 5 (TH/SS)
Troops
Scout Squad 5
Scout Squad 5


Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
x3 Storm Ravens -
Tactical Squad 10 (Heavy flamer, flamer, combi-flamer, melta-bomb)
Tactical Squad 10 (Heavy flamer, flamer, combi-flamer, melta-bomb)
Tactical Squad 10 (Heavy flamer, flamer, combi-flamer, melta-bomb)


That's not too bad. The scouts can go hide and seize any undefended objectives while the Libby rides on one of the Ravens. If teleport homers do work inside vehicles, you just zoom Ravens around on turn 1 taking out threats and then by turn 2 you can have your hammernators and DC taking out high priority targets while your ravens unload your combat-squadded tac squads to burn and bolter. Not to mention 3 Stormravens flying around taking out AV targets and FMCs.

You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.

Wow. I am repeating something people have said but:

"Here we were worried our codex sucked."

It's fluffy, $Pricey, but very cool. I'm excited. But not about building and painting more Stormravens.

On another note:
Guess people WILL be building some 10-man Tactical Squads, huh?

Fireraven wrote:
You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.

No.

Fireraven wrote:
You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.

I will elaborate on this slightly going by the BRB pages 116-122 most focus being on page 121. Now we know the Angel's Fury is a formation as it is listed as such. so now we look at the restrictions, command benefits, and formation sections. Also the detachment section page 118 middle. With the start of There is no limit to the number of detachments. Again all this is limited by the players house rules or the Number of sources allowed by a TO. But lets look at The formations and fluff so far released. We have source 1 Codex, 2 Deathstorm, and 3 White Dwarf. so a 2 source rule restriction ( most common).

You would use WD Angel's Fury.

Angel's Fury- takes up 3 Troop and 3 Heavy main points given from this Ob Sec to these 3 troops only, Embarked onto the Storm Ravens not optional, Turn 1 re-rollable Deep Strike, All units of the blood angel faction deep striking can do so and assault after ( Turn 2) with the Requirement of x inches ect ect.

Now all the the Angel's Fury but the 3 troops will have Ob Sec.

Now lets go 2 sources- Above using Deathstorm.
You can even use the DC and Cassor as troops even allow Cassor to ride in the Storm Raven's after all he is a Dread and these are not carrying none nor is there a restriction saying you cannot.
Be exact you can run the whole formation or just Specific units.
Now if you run the whole Deathstorm formation total its 1 hq , 1 elite, 2 troops.
Leaving 1 hq , 3 Elites, 1 troop , 3 FA, And 1 lord and fort.
Now the Deathstorm unit again has Against all Odds and Bloody Toll while not gaining orb sec.

What you get, well you get a lot #1 you get Seize the initiative on a 5+ , You get orb sec on 3 troops, you get Against all odds on the Deathstorm guys as well as bloody toll, and while Captian is alive you can RE-Roll any reserve rolls. That's one hell of an alpha strike

So to lay it out, You will get Seize on a 5+ re roll, Get the turn 1 storms, get the dc, the terms, and Cassor (DC DREAD) and the captain all re-rolling to wound on that 2nd turn deep striking ball of death. + 105 points in an 1850 game to pimp out the Tac's and Stormraven's

So I maybe a little off on this, but you can run these formations separate under a battle forged army and have the Angel's deep strike turn 1 make the death storm your warlord with seize and re-rollable turn 2 assault strike.

A Formation is a special type of Detachment. You cannot put a detachment in a detachment. You can make a legal Battle-Forged army by taking any combination of Formations and regular Detachments.

A formation is a type of detachment as specified by the first sentence of the Formation subsection. (digital version so no page numbers) On 4th paragraph of 'Detachments' it says in bold that 'no unit can belong to more than one detachment'. So it can not be part of CAD or equivalent and still count towards a Formation.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
A formation is a type of detachment as specified by the first sentence of the Formation subsection. (digital version so no page numbers) On 4th paragraph of 'Detachments' it says in bold that 'no unit can belong to more than one detachment'. So it can not be part of CAD or equivalent and still count towards a Formation.

Yes with the first line being , There is no limit to the number of Detachments, point being? , Also look at the Command benefits section. so the Angel's has it and the Deathstorm has there's , and the Libby is not even required. So pimp out the Angel's detachment and roll with the Deathstorm as your 2nd turn all alpha force, thus you do not use anything from the codex. Leaves you with 105 to put on the Tacs and storm ravens in an 1850 game with the army still being Battle Forged.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Yes you can take two Formations, or any number of them, and never use a Force Org chart of any kind. But you can't use the Tacitcals in Angel's Fury to count towards anything in any other type of Detachment. They're not part of a CAD or the 4 Elite detachment in the BA codex. They are separate completely and interact with any model not in that Formation according to the allies matrix. In this case it's Battle Brothers but they are still essentially two seperate army lists put next to each other.

I can see the debate here on troop tax, however surely its simply a matter of:

Storm Raven Formation
Archangel CAD as allies

You skip the troops requirement altogether and can instead take dreads, terminators etc as your Elite filled list?

I edited the post I made since the multiple uses is debatable and went with using both detachments into a battle forged army which is perfectly legal and not unbound.

 Melcavuk wrote:
I can see the debate here on troop tax, however surely its simply a matter of:

Storm Raven Formation
Archangel CAD as allies

You skip the troops requirement altogether and can instead take dreads, terminators etc as your Elite filled list?

You're right and with the Archangel Formation rules allowing you to re-reroll reserve rolls for your termies you're almost guaranteed them coming in during your 2nd turn

Given that the Tactical Squads in Angel 's Fury are ObSec, the Archangel CAD does seem to be one of the best ways to avoid the Troop Tax. Angel's Fury is balanced by the fact it is expensive. It takes up over half your points.

Slightly better photos of the WD formations from a social network. I dont know the original source - it was reffered to by Waaaghgaming.de

Can you use more than one of the same formation? Like, two Angel's Wrath?

As long as a Formation doesn't include any unique models, you can use as many as you like (house/TO rules excluded).

 Redemption wrote:
As long as a Formation doesn't include any unique models, you can use as many as you like (house/TO rules excluded).

Sounds good. The Angel's Wrath fits what I envisioned BA functioning like. May run two of them in a list.

Angel's wrath gives the jump pack players a reason to keep it going. And Fury gives us new guys something to salivate over. Might not be competitive but it looks like fun. Very good additions.