Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, this is less a constructed army list, and more a matter of gathering ideas and input for a list starting in the 35-50 point range as i get back into warmahordes after a few years away from the scene. In light of one of my more generous clients offering to just hand me a Menite collection that he's not likely to play, including an excruciatingly wide variety of models, i wanted to try and build a list containing models not frequently seen or played, since i'm not a fan of models that are used as proxies for other things.

Among the collection are a group of much-maligned Cinerators, and, iirc, at least 1 full unit of almost anything else you could possibly think of, save, perhaps, the avatar of menoth, and the battle engines. So, i present to you, my fellow dakkanauts, this exercize in making things work. A bit of info on my present tastes, as i would also like to be able tio be able to enjoy playing this finished product, as well:

-I like my models big and beefy. Even when i play these days, borrowed though they may be, i prefer using models like bastions, artillery teams, and warjacks. I have nothing personal against small-based models, but i tend to gravitate more towards beefy units that hit like a sack of rabid doorknobs over waves of bodies.

-I like armies that hit their stride in the mid to late game, generally a bit slow off the line, but hard to stop once the carnage really gets started.

-Being a commission painter, i want to run a few really eye-catching and uncommon units not often seen, to better drum up local interest.

So, yeah, let's hear your thoughts...

I don't know Menoth all that well but between what you've said here and what works in Menoth it sounds like you're looking for a build focused on medium-based Exemplars, possibly with Harby or a Kreoss (Menoth tends to prefer small-based beefy units that hit like a sack of rabid doorknobs).

Menoth does both well, and i've got my casters narroed down to 3 - eSevvy, eKreoss, or pReznik. Developing at 50 pts, the list is fleshing out as such:

pReznik
Guardian
Exemplar Bastions - 5 man (x2)
Exemplar Cinerators - 3 man (x2)
Exemplar Bastion Seneschal (x2)
High Exemplar Gravus
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon
Paladin of the Order of the Wall (x2)
Covenant of Menoth
Wracks (points filler)

but i'm not sure if i'm feeling the caster and jack on this one, though eSevvy plugs in readily, sorta, and if i go eKreoss, the list gets downright vicious, but really needs a different 'jack component, but i'm not sure how to approach it.

The Resnik's like Jacks that get quite a bit of use of Iron Aggression. I usually see him with 3-4 heavies tbh. His witch hunter and perdition like having good attack options.

As for this list... Its not good for Resnik IMHO, to much slow infantry, not enough jacks. Its a better fit with some adjustments for eKreoss, or possibly the high reclaimer (he provides smoke and loves bringing back multi wound models). If you go EKreoss, you will want his personal jack instead of the guardian, and whatever else that needed to be swapped to fit into tier4.

The trouble with eKreoss becomes having to drop the paladin tarpit(s) and fill in the points elsewhere. The list, as a whole, is meant to drop a brick of damage in play unmolested. That said, a couple of tanky vigilants attached to the Seneschals could be worth it... particularly with choir (loathe as i am to take them), and a pair of vassals in tow.

I assure you, Vigilants are NOT worth it. They would be of questionable value at 2-3 points. At 4 they are total deadweight. Bastions are already pretty safe from blast damage being Arm16 with 8 boxes, healing from the seneschal, and being able to share damage on top of that.

If I put a jack on the Seneschal, its either a Vanquisher, a Sanctifier(rarely), or, if I am running pSeverius, a pair of Repenters. Jacks that require no more than one boost at a time to contribute to the battlefield.


If you want to run a lot of Bastions and Cinerators, you want Vindictus. He fixes their main problem which is speed and lack of Pathfinder. Under his spell True Path, the Cinerators can actually survive to combat and Bastions become absolute terrors. Bastions have an 11" charge threat under that spell, which is insane for heavy infantry. Cinerators have only 9.5" threat, which is still respectable. Its certainly the only list Cinerators are viable in, but only take them if you are already full up on Bastions and want more medium based weapon masters.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I assure you, Vigilants are NOT worth it. They would be of questionable value at 2-3 points. At 4 they are total deadweight. Bastions are already pretty safe from blast damage being Arm16 with 8 boxes, healing from the seneschal, and being able to share damage on top of that.

If I put a jack on the Seneschal, its either a Vanquisher, a Sanctifier(rarely), or, if I am running pSeverius, a pair of Repenters. Jacks that require no more than one boost at a time to contribute to the battlefield.

Vigilants aren't there to be hard-hitting... they're there to be ARM 21-23 sinks for blast damage with a pair of open fists. Being able to throw a small-based model off of an objective, or into/out of a charge lane is a useful thing.

If you want to run a lot of Bastions and Cinerators, you want Vindictus. He fixes their main problem which is speed and lack of Pathfinder. Under his spell True Path, the Cinerators can actually survive to combat and Bastions become absolute terrors. Bastions have an 11" charge threat under that spell, which is insane for heavy infantry. Cinerators have only 9.5" threat, which is still respectable. Its certainly the only list Cinerators are viable in, but only take them if you are already full up on Bastions and want more medium based weapon masters.

I don't know how sold i am on Vindictus. Yes, he's an infantry caster, but he's never really struck me as something i have a compelling desire to play.

Dronze wrote:
they're there to be ARM 21-23 sinks for blast damage with a pair of open fists. Being able to throw a small-based model off of an objective, or into/out of a charge lane is a useful thing.

Immunity to blast isn't all that useful for the Protectorate as our infantry are high enough armor to not worry too much. It also doesn't prevent models from suffering other effects of blasts, like continuous effects.

The ability to throw small or medium based models is not worth 4 points. If a small based model is in your way and you need to move it, it would be easier to just kill it(something the vigilant can't do very well). And you're not going to be able to block enemy charge lanes with a thrown model because most of the time it will die when it gets thrown, especially if its small based. The only models you really ever see get thrown are large based models, and for that you need another large based model.

There is a very good reason you never ever see the Vigilant get used. Take a Repenter instead.

It's a 4-point objective holder with throwing capacity... the repenter is a 4-point flamethrower that serves a more offensive role., and does well to actually have some focus on it. It takes some real effort to shift a vigilant, which, in the local meta, being primarily objective-based play, is a strong piece of kit to have on board.

Most metas use scenarios. And Vigilants are still useless.

4 points just to sit on an objective, and maybe once in a blue moon throw something, is a very bad use of points. If you want an objective holder, pay 1 point and bring a mechanik. He might even fix something useful.