Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

i am capable of reading the things being written but as one who has a burning hatred of what Mephiston became before this codex, i am very interested to know what the new hotness is in the Codex. What is emerging as an "ah ha" unit idea or even better, an "ah Ha!" strategy to use with them.

My general impression is they have the same basic mode of attack, but they lowered points and all that. That isn't so much what i'm interested in. What I really want to know is: what deplorable abomination or set of abominations should I most respect as its opponent?

It kind of depends on what army you are playing as. I don't think they have any universally awesome abominations.

It's too soon for this, there is so much that has to be released.

Death Company as always, with possible 5 attacks on the charge with S5 I5 they are gonna mince through almost anything.

However BA have got some freaky formations so if you're opponent has a unit of VV and ASM you might want to be weary of T1 charge from Deep Strike.

If they have the points for it, that new Spearhead formation in the WhiteDwarf looks scary good; combining StormRaven spam with the ability to assault out of deepstrike? You are looking at potentially anywhere from 3 to 6 units assaulting on Turn 2, all as WS5 and S5 minimum. Could be very nasty.

It's never too early to become prepared.

Okay lets say that i am playing Tau Empire.

Basic list I use:

Sniper Drones
2 Kroot + krootox units
2 Fire Warrior units
Crisis unit
2x Riptides.
Aun'Va
Buffmander
2 x pathfinder units in Devilfish
Marker Drone Swarm.

I'm sure you do this, but in the case of the stormraven formation, bubblewrap the riptides. The riptides basically wipe out the most scary stuff in the BA codex.

tell me about this StormRaven Formation. it sounds like it's not friendly.

I don't have the White Dwarf yet. You have to have 3 Stormravens and 3 tactical squads on the ravens. The squads can assault from deep strike when they arrive. But... they're tactical squads.

Sure. Tactical Squads can be cheap and heavily armed in small doses though is what I heard? So they might be perfect for both assassinating vehicles and then forcing the enemy to pour fire into low cost units to avoid it happening twice. So there's maybe some value there?

the Storm Ravens are no joke. We all know that. and threee of them arent coming out of the sky without a fight. So that does sound scary. Reinforces my growing feelings about the need for additional anti-air units.

I dislike that I have to spend SO many points killing flyers. Quite annoying.

The Stormraven formation is like 1200pts doesn't leave much room to wiggle with other units. 3 Stormravens would be a pain to deal with though.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
The Stormraven formation is like 1200pts doesn't leave much room to wiggle with other units. 3 Stormravens would be a pain to deal with though.

Three Ravens probably kill no more infantry than triple helldrake, because their attacks don't ignore cover.

The stormraven formation is only viable at 1750 and above. At that point level BA can bring as an example, 2 hammernator squads and 1 L2 terminator librarian that can deep strike with no scatter as long as they're within 12 inches of 2 teleport homers (carried by the tac sgts) AND can charge on the turn they deepstrike.

 Jancoran wrote:
Sure. Tactical Squads can be cheap and heavily armed in small doses though is what I heard? So they might be perfect for both assassinating vehicles and then forcing the enemy to pour fire into low cost units to avoid it happening twice. So there's maybe some value there?

the Storm Ravens are no joke. We all know that. and threee of them arent coming out of the sky without a fight. So that does sound scary. Reinforces my growing feelings about the need for additional anti-air units.

I dislike that I have to spend SO many points killing flyers. Quite annoying.

You'll table the rest of the list easily, though. I think that the heavy elite formation might actually be more dangerous.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't have the White Dwarf yet. You have to have 3 Stormravens and 3 tactical squads on the ravens. The squads can assault from deep strike when they arrive. But... they're tactical squads.

Not exactly
You have 3 SR with a Tactical Squad in each.
They zoom 36" on the board on T1.
Then you have some other BA DS on T1 (or in Pods) and they assault T1.

Not quite that dangerous for the Interceptor-army tho.
I would be more worried about the Relic that only let's you Snap Shot when you use Interceptor against the squad.

Martel732 wrote:
You'll table the rest of the list easily, though. I think that the heavy elite formation might actually be more dangerous.

That are only Veterans and Terminators.
Since when are those scary for any army?

From the blood angels tactics thread:

benjak wrote:
I got this from B & C:

Angels fury spearhead force

Formation:
3 tactical squads
3 stormraven gunships

Restrictions:
Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation.

Special rules:

Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.

Objective secured:
All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah)

Spearhead strike force:
When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.


If this is true, how's this going to affect the meta? I

Obviously this formation is quite costly, but the ability to arrive turn 1 on a rerollable 3+ makes it much better than most Marine airforces from the get-go. 3 Storm Ravens is nothing to shake a stick a stick at either. The real nastiness to this is whether or not players rule it to affect units entering play via drop pods. If yes, then you're looking at multiple drop pods arriving turn 1 with no scatter, the contents of which will disembark and assault you with near impunity. On turn 1. Said contents is very likely tooled up DC with attached characters all hitting at S5 I5 or better. It won't be pretty.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't have the White Dwarf yet. You have to have 3 Stormravens and 3 tactical squads on the ravens. The squads can assault from deep strike when they arrive. But... they're tactical squads.

Not exactly
You have 3 SR with a Tactical Squad in each.
They zoom 36" on the board on T1.
Then you have some other BA DS on T1 (or in Pods) and they assault T1.

Not quite that dangerous for the Interceptor-army tho.
I would be more worried about the Relic that only let's you Snap Shot when you use Interceptor against the squad.

Martel732 wrote:
You'll table the rest of the list easily, though. I think that the heavy elite formation might actually be more dangerous.

That are only Veterans and Terminators.
Since when are those scary for any army?

Nope the elite section is crazy crowded for BA. Sang Guard, Death Company, Command Squads, Multiple Dreads, the list goes on. The scariest ones are probably Death Company and Command Squads. Both became considerably cheaper (i.e. more spammable), have built in FNP, the former is a CC nightmare, and the latter makes an excellent special weapons drop platform.

Martel732 wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
The Stormraven formation is like 1200pts doesn't leave much room to wiggle with other units. 3 Stormravens would be a pain to deal with though.

Three Ravens probably kill no more infantry than triple helldrake, because their attacks don't ignore cover.

I don't really get what you mean here, I was referring to them be AV12 flyers and no one will have enough AA to take them out quickly.

You don't need to take them out at all. That's my point.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Nope the elite section is crazy crowded for BA. Sang Guard, Death Company, Command Squads, Multiple Dreads, the list goes on. The scariest ones are probably Death Company and Command Squads. Both became considerably cheaper (i.e. more spammable), have built in FNP, the former is a CC nightmare, and the latter makes an excellent special weapons drop platform.

I know but the Detachment itself says you can only pick between: Captain (or Karlaen), Librarian or Chaplain (in TDA) as HQ.
And Veterans/Terminators (max 10 of these) and Furioso Dreads (max 6) as your 2-16 elites.

It's really just our First Company and they don't have SG, DC or Command Squads.

Barebones the formation comes in at 1020. We normally play 1850 around my parts but I have been looking at pairing this up with the new campaign formation(Archangel something or other?) that's up to 2 HQs and 16 elites since you don't have to include anymore troops in the formation(you already have 3 full tactical squads that get ObSec!).

With that Archangel formation you can't take DC, but you can take VV or Termies Looking at termies, I was thinking a squad of assaults(two TH\SS and three LC) and a squad of regulars. That's an awful lot of not-scattering\assaulting the same turn beef in your opponents face and still leaves 400 points for an HQ and whatever other goodies you want to include in the list(mmmmm, heavy flamers!). I'm thinking termies since, in a tourney setting, it allows you more flexibility in responding to another reserves based army(drop pods, deep striking Farsight, etc) since you aren't having to bring some of them in turn 1 in the pods and they are more survivable afterwards for not much more in points(a VV with JP and power weapon is only 3 pts cheaper than an Assault Termie with LCs).

VVets in Drop Pods would be awesome too if you want to try a turn 1 blast. Drop the jump packs, slap some power weapons and infernus pistols in there and go at it. Unless it's tau and they have EWO. Don't do that then.

Furioso in a droppod could be nice to take away interceptor fire from the ravens. AV13, fragcannon, heavy flamer on turn 1 plus 3 str10 attacks on the charge. Or even a DC blender-dread with 2 HFs to really tempt them open fire with its av12, because no one wants 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the 1st turn

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sure. Tactical Squads can be cheap and heavily armed in small doses though is what I heard? So they might be perfect for both assassinating vehicles and then forcing the enemy to pour fire into low cost units to avoid it happening twice. So there's maybe some value there?

the Storm Ravens are no joke. We all know that. and threee of them arent coming out of the sky without a fight. So that does sound scary. Reinforces my growing feelings about the need for additional anti-air units.

I dislike that I have to spend SO many points killing flyers. Quite annoying.

You'll table the rest of the list easily, though. I think that the heavy elite formation might actually be more dangerous.

Tell me about this Heavy Elite Formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:


You have 3 SR with a Tactical Squad in each.
They zoom 36" on the board on T1.
Then you have some other BA DS on T1 (or in Pods) and they assault T1.

Not quite that dangerous for the Interceptor-army tho.
I would be more worried about the Relic that only let's you Snap Shot when you use Interceptor against the squad.
.

wowa...Wowa... 3 Storm Ravens on the board turn 1, to nuclear strike the enemy armor with? Wowa.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, by the Way this is from the opponents point of view, not the Blood angels point of view. I dont want to get into all the list building stuff as far as what is or isnt good. I just wanna know what Im looking at here and what to prioritize and so on.

specific load outs aside, the command squad is what, five dudes? And they can all have FnP and Special weapons? Is that whats being said?

I think the stormraven formation can be brutal vs tau.

Have someone sitting on comms relay scoring a point hidden out of los and range.
Ravens arrive turn 1 8/9 of the time and move max distance forward. Shouldn't loose more than one for the first turn.
Next turn you have MSU of termies, AM, DC or anything with deepstrike within 12' of 2 ravens without a scatter and charge the opponent emidiately - you can just get around 400 pts of those, so it's probably just gona be 2-3 small squads of something but that's gona be enough for a surgical strike against the enemy's hardhitters - broadsides, riptides, suits. Super overwatch is frightening but you can land your ravens, disembark tacticals and also charge! s5 tacticals are killy enough to handle combat and durable enough to remain a threat for the next turn.

Now you can get screwed by reserve rolls. But need to think of options to get +1 for reserves.

You want to get really scared when things AREN'T on the board. The most dangerous things don't come on the table until they're ready and they come in EXACTLY where they want to be. Reduced scatter is normal, no scatter is common, and nearly all of them get some bonus for dropping in. Maybe they can charge that turn, maybe they deal a Mawloc type hit when they arrive, maybe they haul in other units with them ready to kill everything in a 24" circle with flame, bolt and melta. A BA force on the table is nothing, but a BA force in Reserve is terrifying. I honestly don't know many counters that aren't too specific. Just have to weather the impact of arrival and try to pick up the pieces left...

I'm very curious as to how something like a penta-flyrant would stack up vs 3 storm ravens and 30 marines (probably with some melee kit and krack/melta bombs)

I have a strong feeling that Gk's been finally paying attention to captain Boreal's messages.

We're totally living in the time of "SPESS MEHREENS STEEEL REHN !!!!"


Dark Angel - 1st turn drop / twin link shoot and then turn 2 assault
Marines - drop pods of course and probably first turn bike scout/grav spam fun or airforce marines, still turn 2 assault
GK - first turn drop and shoot/run, still turn 2 assault however
Wolves - even better first turn drop pods for allies. And TWC up in your grill by turn 2

and now
blood angels with the even better turn 1 fly in and drop on you melee style with possibly a furiso dreadnaught. It's like they were working up to this finally.

Gonna be a rough day for standard tau/ ork / guard bubble wraps.

Probably be a good counter or at least stands a better chance vs like the penta flyrant and will seriously threaten adamantium lance if not outright cripple it (wasn't all that great to begin with honestly) The melee will definately put a stop to the waveserpent spam or at least make it less dangerous

I'm thinking it won't change play vs bikestar marines or alot of TAC lists though will definately shake up the meta. Now just need necrons to get finalized to see how things are going to shape up. Still so much necron broken mess (including that mess of transcendent c'tan - seriously, are tournaments allowing that thing?)

As to how the game is shaping up, I'm quite liking where the blood angels are going. Got alot of variety now to deal with in any TAC list:

Air power is going to be a strong field presence - marine airforce, cronair, penta hive tyrants, and now blood angel triple ravens
MC's are still rough - riptide spam, nids again with the flying MC's as well as daemons, DK's, WK's, imperial knights
Fast movers - bike star - both orks, and marines and chaos marines with spawn or bikes, jetseers, TWC, wraithstar
Invisible deathstars - draigo/loth centurions, daemons (or just be a factory), eldar version
And the traditional mech spam guard armies with paskpunisher / executioner/ high armor spam sisters / crons av 13 wall / and the lovely wave serpent spam
Bringing up the rest being fearless blobs of things

And now - first turn assaults will be a thing again. Will basically force some interesting solutions to pure shooty armies and builds. Pure shooty will be forced to adapt and I only feel that is a good thing. Gosh I'm getting excited enough to start buying more models again! woots

Interesting indeed...

Yes I can see the fearsome aspect of the Storm Ravens. It apperars you hasve to take full squads of Tactical Marines for inside the Triple Ravens, but... that's okay. Pads the specuial weapons anyways...

This really looks like a frighteningly good formation for them. I'm pretty impressed. I played a game against a more conventional build (I did win) but the INIT was so great against my I4 people. It played big.

that init is no joke and the wings that let you avoid intercept blasts? not good news for my Riptide.

EDIT: Where are the rules for the Formation?

The Storm Raven formation is being horribly rules lawyered.

The formation explains that the intent is for the Tac squads to disembark first, then their Teleport Homers aid in Teleporting Reserves which can then assault.

This sadly wasn't well written in the rules, but the intent of it was written clear as day.

Using Drop pods guided by teleport homers is just wrong (but sadly legal in the rules-lawyers eyes).

well the homer has to be on the board at the beginning of the turn to work so reserves cant guide in Drop pods turn one.

@grendel083 Have you read the wording for the rule its not remotely being lawyered and their is no obvious intent that is being ignored.

Sunhero wrote:
@grendel083 Have you read the wording for the rule its not remotely being lawyered and their is no obvious intent that is being ignored.

Read the whole formation, not just the special rules.
The rule allows it as I said. Read the rest of its page and you'll see why using drop pods goes against the intended purpose of it.