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can someone just explain to us that dont have this text what you guys are talking about?

 Jancoran wrote:
can someone just explain to us that dont have this text what you guys are talking about?

The formation is described as using it's teleport homer network to guid in teleporting reserves.

The tac squads are described as disembarking to set up this network.

The special rules are written in shorter manner, which technically allows any deep strikers within range of the teleport homers to not scatter, then assault. So you're using teleport homers to guide a drop pod, it's like using the GK's "Rites of Teleportation" on an allied Drop pod. Technically allowed, but totally against the intent, and an utter move.

It's like they got the intern to write this one, and never checked his work.

Angel's fury Formation is has a deal that any unit deep striking within 12" of 2 of the homers can assault out of deep striking. Also the relic the BA have that the priest can carry pretty much kills the tau interception. It required all interception shots be made as snap shots their for that ap2 pie plate cannot fire if it touch's that unit. In laymen terms bring them in so there is not way the large blast will not touch that unit. and the fix for the no scatter is a homer on the storm ravens them selves. zoom 38, hover drop troops 5.5" and add 6" . deep strike in the what ever so its within 12" of 2 of 3 troops, then when it checks to charge its there. Fyi it never says they have to use the homers just that they have to be within x distance in order to charge on arrival.

Do you mean the fluff? they probably wasn't written by the same person and going to the fluff for rules even RAI is very strange move.

Sunhero wrote:
Do you mean the fluff? they probably wasn't written by the same person and going to the fluff for rules even RAI is very strange move.

Right, the Fluff says they come into them , the rules never make such a requirement. If they did it would still be just as good but people do not see that. The most over looked part is the Angel's Wing relic no one has looked at.

Sunhero wrote:
Do you mean the fluff? they probably wasn't written by the same person and going to the fluff for rules even RAI is very strange move.

I said it was against the intent, not the rules.

There are so many poorly written rules (the psychic phase is a mess!), there just comes a point as a player where you need to say "No, that's not how it should be played".

I find Death Company to be a lot scarier now. They were 35pts each before with jump packs. Now, they're only only 23pts each with jump packs, and they can ALL carry hand flamers, plasma pistols, and inferno pistols.

My friend very recently swapped his interest from Crons to BA, and that makes me suspicious.
Not to mention the very high amount of new BA stuff at my LGS....
All I can say is watch out for the Death Company, try to wipe them out before they get too close, haha.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
can someone just explain to us that dont have this text what you guys are talking about?

The formation is described as using it's teleport homer network to guid in teleporting reserves.

The tac squads are described as disembarking to set up this network.

The special rules are written in shorter manner, which technically allows any deep strikers within range of the teleport homers to not scatter, then assault. So you're using teleport homers to guide a drop pod, it's like using the GK's "Rites of Teleportation" on an allied Drop pod. Technically allowed, but totally against the intent, and an utter move.

It's like they got the intern to write this one, and never checked his work.

Well Deep Striking and teleporting are different from the rules perspective yes? Also: no one can assault on the turn they arrive from reserve. So I'm not really clear on what part of the rule is supposedly allowing it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fireraven wrote:

Sunhero wrote:
Do you mean the fluff? they probably wasn't written by the same person and going to the fluff for rules even RAI is very strange move.

Right, the Fluff says they come into them , the rules never make such a requirement. If they did it would still be just as good but people do not see that. The most over looked part is the Angel's Wing relic no one has looked at.

I read that relic and caught instantly that it was a Riptide nerf. I will say that much. I looked at and read thsoe relics and that one also caught my attention.

Angel's Fury Spearhead Force

Formation:
3 tactical squads
3 stormraven gunships

Restrictions:
Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation.

Special rules:

Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.

Objective secured:
All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah)

Spearhead strike force:
When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.

 Jancoran wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
can someone just explain to us that dont have this text what you guys are talking about?

The formation is described as using it's teleport homer network to guid in teleporting reserves.

The tac squads are described as disembarking to set up this network.

The special rules are written in shorter manner, which technically allows any deep strikers within range of the teleport homers to not scatter, then assault. So you're using teleport homers to guide a drop pod, it's like using the GK's "Rites of Teleportation" on an allied Drop pod. Technically allowed, but totally against the intent, and an utter move.

It's like they got the intern to write this one, and never checked his work.

Well Deep Striking and teleporting are different from the rules perspective yes? Also: no one can assault on the turn they arrive from reserve. So I'm not really clear on what part of the rule is supposedly allowing it?


the rule says anything arriving via deep strike reserves within 12" of 2 of the homers may assault the turn it deep strikes in. Special rule for formation, Yes its sick. Thats why i was saying Angel's wings on a Priest Deep striking in first with a DC blocking the rest behind them. Going all Beast mode.

ASSAULT OUT OF DEEPSTRIKE?

WHERE?

I'm so sorry guys but I absolutely hate tau.

I think new BA might give tau players a run for their money and quite ironic after all the pointless rage this last 2 weeks upon it's release.

Another formation from the News and Rumors section

Archangel's Sanguine Wing

2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven

you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.

the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the sternguard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member

You need to have 10 guys in each squad and the sternguard are required to deploy in the stormraven but hey, you get 400 points worth of combi-weapons and power-weapons for free.

actually the fluff for the rules say drop and teleports so I don't quite see the problem with fluff intent though it does say "on the ground". Btw, I don't play BA nor have blood angel models even so I don't really care what it turns into eventually. I just like the thought of having to build lists that may have to deal with 1st turn assaults. It gets my tactical juices flowing on how to counter this.

When lightning strikes against heavily-defended xenos positions were called for, Dante looked to the most experienced warriors of the Blooded to lead the attack. Fully half the 2nd Company's Tactical Squads were transported within the armored hulls of Stormraven Gunships, where they would be delivered with practiced efficiency to the heart of the Tyranid host to secure a beachhead. Once on the ground, the squad sergeants triangulated their teleport homers to call in additional support. With such logicstical data at their disposal, inbound reinforcements could drop or teleport to their location with pinpoint precision, enabling them to respond to priority threats with immediate effect. On many occasions, a Spearheead force would herald the arrival of an Angel's Wrath Intervention Force dropping from on high to smash the xenos.

It totally reminds me of that scene in the seige of vraks when the guard are trying to break into the last wall of the fortress and all these terminators and such showed up around one jump pack assault squad sgt (lone survivor) managed to get a teleport homer into the breach successfully.

lawlskees wrote:
ASSAULT OUT OF DEEPSTRIKE?

WHERE?

I'm so sorry guys but I absolutely hate tau.

I think new BA might give tau players a run for their money and quite ironic after all the pointless rage this last 2 weeks upon it's release.

I'm unapologetically a Tau player since 2004. So there.

Okay so now that Ive read the Formation information it seems very cut and dry. I don't see much room for interpretation there. It absolutely seems to indicate that the Drop Pods would no scatter in turn two, and the units inside could indeed charge because they are considered to have arrived via deep strike per the rules.

Thisi s an impressive and horrifying idea indeed!

Other than the fact that there are 30 tactical marines in the list. Maybe this is scary for Tau. But you can just intercept everything with your giant pie plates of death.

no. the Wings can stop it

 Jancoran wrote:
no. the Wings can stop it

For one whole unit. Yay. Which will probably die after killing one Tau unit.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/627027.page

So there is no more confusion on what is in the 3 Stormraven formation. Also check out the You Make Da Call thread about this same formation.

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
no. the Wings can stop it

For one whole unit. Yay. Which will probably die after killing one Tau unit.

I don't know bout that. But in any event, what I said was true.

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
no. the Wings can stop it

For one whole unit. Yay. Which will probably die after killing one Tau unit.

I don't know bout that. But in any event, what I said was true.

I never questioned that, but I think it would have be an army-wide effect to be truly effective. Otherwise, the Tau will just evaporate all the units without the relic and kill the relic unit the next turn.

 grendel083 wrote:

Sunhero wrote:
Do you mean the fluff? they probably wasn't written by the same person and going to the fluff for rules even RAI is very strange move.

I said it was against the intent, not the rules.

There are so many poorly written rules (the psychic phase is a mess!), there just comes a point as a player where you need to say "No, that's not how it should be played".

These kind of posts are so strange.

I don't have a BA army and one of my main opponents does. He'll be using this a lot vs me. All the power to him, he's following the rules. There is no need to complain about people using the rules as they are written.

It is very clear that the teleport homers aren't required to be used for homing purposes in order to benefit from this special ability. They also don't have to disembark. No need to invent rules. No rule lawyering needed.

The more i delve the more I am impressed.

So I think I foresee this list a lot:

3 Storm Ravens

3 x 10 Tactical marines w/ Power Maul and a couple of Melta guns.

3 Assault Squads (Power Mauls, melta)

2 x 5 Scouts (camo cloaks)

Corbulo

That looks about right. I havent pointed them out or geared them up exactly but that looks pretty darn close to what I'll be seeing.

 Jancoran wrote:
The more i delve the more I am impressed.

So I think I foresee this list a lot:

3 Storm Ravens

3 x 10 Tactical marines w/ Power Maul and a couple of Melta guns.

3 Assault Squads (Power Mauls, melta)

2 x 5 Scouts (camo cloaks)

Corbulo

That looks about right. I havent pointed them out or geared them up exactly but that looks pretty darn close to what I'll be seeing.

That's around 1850 points.

Not sure why people are getting all bend out of shape over this formation though, it's not really anything new. Vanguard were able to DS into melee for 4+ year and no one used them. Now ASM and terminators can WITH A 1020+ POINT TAX, and people are clambering for it?

This is the gimmicky-ist thing ever.

I think of all the armies to be able to charge out of deep strike, it should be the Blood Angels, based on their fluff.

and the 1000point+ tax seems reasonable so that people aren't doing this in 750point games. But at 1750-2000 points you should be able to handle 2-3 units charging you and still win with the right tactics.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
The more i delve the more I am impressed.

So I think I foresee this list a lot:

3 Storm Ravens

3 x 10 Tactical marines w/ Power Maul and a couple of Melta guns.

3 Assault Squads (Power Mauls, melta)

2 x 5 Scouts (camo cloaks)

Corbulo

That looks about right. I havent pointed them out or geared them up exactly but that looks pretty darn close to what I'll be seeing.

That's around 1850 points.

Not sure why people are getting all bend out of shape over this formation though, it's not really anything new. Vanguard were able to DS into melee for 4+ year and no one used them. Now ASM and terminators can WITH A 1020+ POINT TAX, and people are clambering for it?

This is the gimmicky-ist thing ever.

Agreed.

As a competitive Blood Angel Player, the things I would worry about are the following:

Elite Section:
-Death Company are stronger than ever.
-Other Elite choices (Sanguinary Guard,Terminators,Vanguard all compete and do their job worst than DC) (The exception to this is formations which I will get to later.)
-Command Squads will see much play though. Probably with Jump Pacts.
-Furiosos with FragCannons

If your BA opponent isn't taking a formation, he will have at least one DC units, and probably more. In one of my 1850 lists I will be taking 2 units of 9 DC with 1 Power Weapon and 1 Power Fist with Jump Pacts.

Death company will have 5 Attacks, Strength 5, Initiative 5 on the charge for 23 points (jeez).

Troop Section:
-Tactical Marines can take Heavy Flamers.

The troop section is pretty much tax, but Heavy Flamer tacs in Pods may be an interesting tactic.

Fast Attack:
-Can take Rhinos/Razors/Drop Pods as Fast choices
-Assault Marines can double up on special weapons per unit of 5. So BA players can have a unit of 5 Assault Marines with x2 Special Weapons (Plasma Guns or Melta guns preferably) and then a combi weapon Sargent in a Drop Pod for 125 (3x Plasma) / 115 (3 xMelta) points. Outch.
-Bike squads have access to Grav Guns

Heavy Support:
-Lacks alot. I can see players taking Baal / Preds. Maybe the Stormraven for AA.

Lord of War:
-Dante kicks ass. 2+,4++ 4 Wounds. 6 Attacks at WS6 S7 AP2 I6. He will destroy most squads.

On to formations.

I see there being ~2-3 viable formations.

Formation 1:

Stormraven Spearhead formation. This has been discussed above, so I won't go into depth here. This may be viable, but play testing will be needed. Like stated above, the formation costs 1020 points base. You will then want Meltas/Flamers/Plasmas on those tac squads. So you are looking at about 1100 points after upgrades. That leaves you with ~750 points to fit an HQ, and then troop requirement.

Formation 2:
Archangel Sanguine Wing. You should be afraid of this imo. Blood Angel players get 400 free points on you guys with this formation.

10 VV
10 VV
10 Sternguard Vets
1 Stormraven
860 points.

Bonuses: All Vanguard Vets can take Power weapons for free! Sternguard Vets can take any combi weapons for free! The entire formation comes in on a 3+ re-rollable. Sternguard must start in the stormraven and cannot take a dedicated transport.

This formation gives the BA player much more points to work with. ~ 990 which he can fill with those ASM melta pods I stated before. Maybe DC or Dante.

Hope this helps.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
The more i delve the more I am impressed.

So I think I foresee this list a lot:

3 Storm Ravens

3 x 10 Tactical marines w/ Power Maul and a couple of Melta guns.

3 Assault Squads (Power Mauls, melta)

2 x 5 Scouts (camo cloaks)

Corbulo

That looks about right. I havent pointed them out or geared them up exactly but that looks pretty darn close to what I'll be seeing.

That's around 1850 points.

Not sure why people are getting all bend out of shape over this formation though, it's not really anything new. Vanguard were able to DS into melee for 4+ year and no one used them. Now ASM and terminators can WITH A 1020+ POINT TAX, and people are clambering for it?

This is the gimmicky-ist thing ever.

yeah i dont really see a problem with this bcause it'll catch you naping once but not twice. Its going to be good REGARDLESS of if you're napping or not. I dont see why we should cry over a codex having a viable path to victory. Every codex has one or seven.

But we all have our favorite boogeyman. For me, basically ever since Mephiston became the beast he id in 5E, Ive hatedthat guy above all others. Thus my keen interest on the oppponent side to try and anticipate and think through what I should be worried about.

THREE flyers of any type is a load. these happen to be very doughty flyers that carry a lot of potent firepower. Flying tanks pretty much.

so this does again underscore my growing sense within the game that you simply cannot adopt the cavalier "just ignore the flyrs and kill everything else" mentality that I hear way to much of. That level of disrespect towards an opponents threat level is what gets you killed intournaments.

Now as a Tau player I have a few ideas on what to do about this that doesnt involve a gun line. A gun line would be in serious doo doo against this list. Sure they might even gank the Storm Ravens but like my Coven force, the volume of fire necessary to do it is always the issue.

I think exerting positional dominance on these things is where it's at. get behind them, force them to hover or fly off, and get them out of position to hurt you.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

HalfBlood wrote:
As a competitive Blood Angel Player, the things I would worry about are the following:

Elite Section:
-Death Company are stronger than ever.
-Other Elite choices (Sanguinary Guard,Terminators,Vanguard all compete and do their job worst than DC) (The exception to this is formations which I will get to later.)
-Command Squads will see much play though. Probably with Jump Pacts.
-Furiosos with FragCannons

If your BA opponent isn't taking a formation, he will have at least one DC units, and probably more. In one of my 1850 lists I will be taking 2 units of 9 DC with 1 Power Weapon and 1 Power Fist with Jump Pacts.

Death company will have 5 Attacks, Strength 5, Initiative 5 on the charge for 23 points (jeez).

Troop Section:
-Tactical Marines can take Heavy Flamers.

The troop section is pretty much tax, but Heavy Flamer tacs in Pods may be an interesting tactic.

Fast Attack:
-Can take Rhinos/Razors/Drop Pods as Fast choices
-Assault Marines can double up on special weapons per unit of 5. So BA players can have a unit of 5 Assault Marines with x2 Special Weapons (Plasma Guns or Melta guns preferably) and then a combi weapon Sargent in a Drop Pod for 125 (3x Plasma) / 115 (3 xMelta) points. Outch.
-Bike squads have access to Grav Guns

Heavy Support:
-Lacks alot. I can see players taking Baal / Preds. Maybe the Stormraven for AA.

Lord of War:
-Dante kicks ass. 2+,4++ 4 Wounds. 6 Attacks at WS6 S7 AP2 I6. He will destroy most squads.

On to formations.

I see there being ~2-3 viable formations.

Formation 1:

Stormraven Spearhead formation. This has been discussed above, so I won't go into depth here. This may be viable, but play testing will be needed. Like stated above, the formation costs 1020 points base. You will then want Meltas/Flamers/Plasmas on those tac squads. So you are looking at about 1100 points after upgrades. That leaves you with ~750 points to fit an HQ, and then troop requirement.

Formation 2:
Archangel Sanguine Wing. You should be afraid of this imo. Blood Angel players get 400 free points on you guys with this formation.

10 VV
10 VV
10 Sternguard Vets
1 Stormraven
860 points.

Bonuses: All Vanguard Vets can take Power weapons for free! Sternguard Vets can take any combi weapons for free! The entire formation comes in on a 3+ re-rollable. Sternguard must start in the stormraven and cannot take a dedicated transport.

This formation gives the BA player much more points to work with. ~ 990 which he can fill with those ASM melta pods I stated before. Maybe DC or Dante.

Hope this helps.

Okay so thats really interesting. The Death Company has 2 base+Pistol, charge... Banner? Wheres the 5th attack?

Can you talm more about the Sanguinary Guard? They were definitely NOT a power build, pretty much ever. Just too easy to take out and so expenive. Would they ever in your mind supplant the Death Company in a list?

Oddly I randomly own a Fragiosso readnought. I always thought highly of them.

Heavy Flamers in tactical Squads is fantastic. How in the worls are people going to do their models that way? Tons of Devastator models? Are they going to release anew kit? I dont want to spin this off too far but Im curious.

And Dante is a wrecking ball.

DC have 2 Base, 1 for pistol, and Rage (+2). They have always had 5 attacks on the charge. The major difference now is that one with jump pact costs 23 points compared to 35 points. This increases there mobility by a ton.

Sanguinary Guard cost 7 points less than before, but essentially are the same. A squad of 5 is 165. The thing is, these guys have much less attacks than DC. So against hordes they are lacking in damage output. Against sv 3+ they overkill the unit, since all models have power swords or power axes. You only need ~2 Power Swords to clear a unit of marines and these guys come with much more. In DC units you can buy the perfect amount of Power Weapons that suits you. Lastly Sanguinary Guard will need some FnP so you will always see them with a Sanguinary Priest who will give them 5+ FnP and +1 WS. I would never supplement DC for these guys in competitive play. In casual I could see 1 unit of 7-8 DC (1 PW, 1 PF 225) and 1 unit of 7-8 Sanguinary Guard + Priest (339). Notice the cost differences

Fragiosso dreadnaughts are a lot of fun, but the era of Dreads are over. These dreads are experts and close range damage but after the initial drop they tend to lack due to Movement 6" and Flame Template range. I was thinking about making a fun list type that involved the Spearhead formation + 3 Dreads that come in and don't scatter + Troop Tax + HQ. Costs around ~1800 points.

Blood Angels got a Tactical model kit that is beautiful.It comes with a Heavy Flamer add on . I am thinking of 5 Tac in Pod with HF costs 115 points.

Dante also has an infernus pistol (Melta Pistol) Hit and run, his mask causes fear too all enemy units that are in combat that are within 6" of him and if he is warlord he lets you re-roll reserves for every Jump, Flyer and Skimmer unit in reserve and if they DS they scatter only D6.

I plan on running Dante in all of my lists. He strikes at Initiative at S7 AP2 6 Attacks. He can deal with almost anything tbh. Turn 1 put him in a Grav bike unit to confer higher Toughness, then split off Turn 2 for the Assault.

Yeah Dante sounds like the new Mephiston. And he should have been all along, fluff wise. Whatevs.

The new kit comes with the heavy Flamer. Yup. GW is gonn' be selling some new models! Good for them.

ell I am just REALLY pleased to see the Blood Angels (my most hated foe for a long time, though I think FMC Daeon Circus's have surely supplanted the Blood angels these days) return to prominence and viability. I really think these changes will make the entire 40K world better for having them around again and not skulking in the "not used" bin where lots of them currently reside.

I also think that I need more anti-air.