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Hmmm I'm glad I am no the only one. I am just getting back into wargaming after about a decade. A friend of mine got space marines army and got me hooked again talking about painting and stuff.. Used to play Tyranids... Got some Eldar on the way, thought I would try something different... but apparently they are a bit OP... meh..

I will also be getting into fantasy sooner rather then later. But alas I also have the same problem. I want them all. And I cannot choose
I used to play High Elves. Dragons and such.. I think phoenix guard is one of the nicest looking regiments or at least used to be.

No Idea what the current rules are. Don't really want to go for a cheesy army... But High elves/Wood elves are a maybe... then again would be cool starting something new. Definitely not going to play empire! lol

Anyone can run down of like high/medium/low of what the current armies are like in terms of battle ability?

I'll do my best !


Empire: Can do a bit of shooty, can do melee reasonably well. They can do magic pretty well, and they have neat war machines. THis is the jack of all trades army - they can do it all well. They also have Karl Franz Ascended, who's possibly the single scariest melee model in the game right now. To excel in any one area you'll probably give up a little bit in others. Think continental rennaissance Europe, and you're on the right track. Model count is in the mid range between elite and horde, but can swing closer to either that you want easily. EDIT: Credit to TDA for pointing out that Empire actually has some "total package builds". Warmachine heavy with Demigryph monstrous cav, with infantry blocks and double banish light councils is a mean list. Kudos.

Orcs&Goblins: missed this one, it's been a while since i played against them, the guys i play around here with them do night gobbo armies, which is a shooty / horde / swarm type. There are other ways to play them.

Brets: a very old army book. Lots of Cavalry. It's been eons since i even played them. King arthur Theme. Model count tends to trend closer to "elite, low count" due to being lots of cavalry.

Elves: NOTE: Elves just got unified. YOu can still play them mono elf, but the rules now exist to take things from all three elven armies in one list. What's more, the rules for it are really, really good. That said:

Dark elves: One of the more solid armies, can do everything really well, and unlike Empire, you sacrifice nothing when you have all your bases covered. They are an extraordinarily solid army ; their core and magic in particular are ridiculously good. Tends towards a lower model count, though of all the elves i'd say you can field the most bodies with dark elves and still make it work if you want to.

High elves: My main army. Love 'em. Pretty good shooting. Amazing magic when built right. Built correctly an unholy terror in melee (somewhat glass hammery, but if you do it right, usually there's not much that survives the impact of the glass hammer). Their Special's slot choices are the envy of most other armies. Elite, low model count army. The only things you would take in droves enough to be "horde-y" aren't worth it.

Wood Elves: Just got a new book - best shooting in the game. FInesse army, but played correctly an utter pain in the butt to deal with. some really excellent options in melee Riders of Kuronous, and Sisters of Thorn offer great magic support (particularly if you play with End Times magic). The melee options past riders are so-so. Wildwood rangers can be excellent but require a lot of support as their armor save is pants. Give them a ward and they shine against things that cause fear and terror. Most versatile magic in the game (lord spellsingers can take light, dark, or any big red lore). More towards elite, low model count spectrum. You can swell body count if you want to, but even taking mass core, when you kit them out makes them pricey for core.

Elven Hosts - can combine some, most, or all (barring special characters) of the above. Will explain more in another post.


NOTE: Like Elves Unified, Chaos also has rules now to make a unified chaos horde.

Chaos Daemons: Can be very very strong, but the winds of magic now influence them, and mostly in negative ways. Not much shooting, but what they do have is incredible (khorne cannons, flamers). Nurgle is tough as nails. Khorne daemons hit like trucks. Slaneesh is a bit of a mixed bag requiring finesse. Build slannesh stuff right, and it's disgustingly powerful. Built it wrong, and it it's VP on a stick for your opponnent. Not a horde army. Point cost per model is amongst the highest in the game.

Warriors of Chaos: Incredibly strong army. Hell cannon is amazing. Warriors are probably the straight up best core in the game. Mauraders are now costed properly rather than being horsegak cheap like in previous years. Amazing magic. All around incredibly solid list. Not a horde army, low model count elite army.

Beastmen: Old army book - that said, just got some upgrades in End Times: Glottkin, which really helps them out. You can make the Doombull you always wanted now! Very Hordey. Magic can be very good if done right. It's an aging book it creaks around the edges a bit. Shooting is a bit on the lower side, it really is a melee / swarm / horde focused type of army. It can be fairly mobile with chariots too though. HOnestly someone might be able to give a better account, i've played against them like twice in my whole life. They don't have much of a presence around here. They can set up ambushes and come in on non-typical board edges with some stuff. High model count, fairly hordey.


NOTE: Undead just got unified rules too.

Tomb Kings: Incredibly magic, excellent monsters, some of the best monstrous cav in the game, tomb guard are phenomenal. Their shooting is actually deceptively good. You can do hordes of infantry, but a good tomb king list is combined arms, using access to many different types of models to create an effective list. Model count lends towards high. Its not as bad as VC or Skaven, or beasts, but its up there.

Vamp counts: Elite (nearly best in game!) lords and heroes with hordes and hordes of infantry. You summon up more replace losses. Blender Lords used to be the undisputed scariest thing in the game ; now they only have 1 rival and he's an 800 some odd point model. Very good magic, mostly focuses though on either killing your enemies stuff, or raising up more bodies. Model count if absolutely horde level, probably second highest model count in the game (second only to skaven).


Skaven: Horde, Horde, Horde. Rats will literally have a couple hundred models on the table. Their Rare choices are the envy of most other armies - the catapault is great against high armor stuff, the Hell Pit Abomination is awesome all the way around, doomwheels are phenomenal, warp lightning cannons are one of the better cannons in the game. That said, their core is good in that you can field them in ridiculous numbers, or get for 7 points a model what it would take most other armies 10+ to get. Very good morale when you field them en masse. Magic tends to be focused on debuffing the enemy or damaging the enemy, with a bit of support sprinkled in (mostly the support is geared towards those two things too), so the magic (while good) is not as flexible as most armies. THe magic however is still very powerful. The "special" field could use some love. They have good ambushers and scouts, and they have fun assassins. This is the army that likes to do crazy zany things. Horde, Horde, Horde. Highest single model count in the game.

Dwarves: They just got a reboot, and i'm not that great on them. Dwarven gunline is allegedly pretty strong, combined arms less so. About middle of the road between elite and horde. No magic! They have runes instead which do effects. This is a warmachine army, so if you like catapaults and cannons and bolt throwers and that kind of thing, this is an army you should look at.

LIzardmen: Great starter army ; most of the army is tough as nails, probably the most reliable morale in the game. They can really do ANYTHING well if you build it that way. On average, the shooting unless focused on is a bit lighter than most other books, but that said, what is in the book is terrific, so it's rare that you will feel it. They like melee. A lot. The saurus core are up there with Chaos Warriors in terms of quality. Their magic is stupendously good. The Slann can easily be one of the most formidible magic users in the game. Their monsters are really incredible - and hey who doesn't want to use a dinosaur ? This is a great starter army, and if you like lizards motif and Aztec / Mayan theme, you can't go wrong. Model count can really range all over. You can do horde-y with skink clouds, but on the whole i'd say it lends towards more elite lower model count.

Ogres: Ogres are a recently updated army and now they can do all phases of the game really well. They tend to have a smaller selection of things than most armies, but what you have to pick from is almost unilaterally awesome. Best Monstrous cavalry in the game (mournfang) - get a flank charge with these bad boys, and you'll eat a unit up. Core is quality, though pricey. Special choices are great (particularly thier main ranged option, leadbelchers). Monsters are excellent (one is a mobile stonethrower that passes out Always Strike Last, the other is very hard to kill melee death machine). Their cannons are ridiculously good. This is a fairly well balanced that leans towards "get to melee, smash things into puddles, move onto next melee" , sprinkled with "awesome shooting", seasoned with "Surprisingly good magic when built properly". Very fun army. Model count is ultra elite ; other than one choice , your cheapest model is going to be 30-ish points per. This is going to be in most games your lowest model count army unless someone is purposefully doing something stupid to make a low model count.



... i think that's all of them ??? I dunno, i forget... that took way longer than i though, LOL


EDIT: General sense making. Definitely didn't get all the typos, apologies. It's early, i'm tired.

Thats almost all of them, You missed Orcs & Goblins.

Haight forgot to note that Empire are possibly the strongest army out there, right now. They've got a lot of strong options with no soft choices. In the old book, you had cannons and helblasters, but they were shielded by relatively poor troops. Now you've got the same war machines, backed up by double banishment, demigryphs, blocks and light magic in general.

Thanks for filling in the blanks guys! Man reading back through that post, you can tell which armies i've played, LOL.


@ TDA ; yep all very true. My most regular empire player here is on deployment overseas, so it's been a WHILE since i played them. Also, i got more wordy as i went on i noticed. I should go back and edit the first couple and flesh them out a little bit more. Thanks for fleshing them out.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple tack-ons:


End TImes: New Magic rules found in End Times Khaine. Strong opinions on it, but almost everyone agrees this is what 9th ed magic phase is going to look like. I personally am a fan of the new magic phase, it's less predictable, but potentially much more powerful.


End TImes; Nagash - allows list construction choosing things from both Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts under the Legion of Undeath Rules. Also introduces Lore of Undeath which any wizard in the game can use (which is interesting). Also opens up Nagash as a character, a 1000 point monstrosity of a lord who is beastly in almost every fashion imagineable, and is also the ultimate force multiplier. Several other undead characters and a couple empire characters too.

End Times: Glottkin - Introduces demonic summoning for chaos casters. Introduces Legions of Chaos which allows list selection and army building from Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, and Daemons of Chaos. Also introduces the singularly awesome (though pricey!) blight king infantry, a few chaos characters, a few empire characters, and Glottkin, which is i think the largest model in the fantasy range now. Also introduces Karl Franz Ascended, the undisputed scariest model in melee in the entire game. Also arguably one of the best generals when it comes to morale, for armies that actually care about morale.


End Times: Khaine - Introduces End Times Magic, which drastically changes how the magic phase plays. Also introduces End Times Spells for each lore. Introduces several "new versions" of familiar elven characters. Jury is still a little bit out, but I personally think the Alarielle's are easily the best given cost vs. output. Introduces 3 new Unified Elves.

Host of Aesteryion (follows or Tyrion) - very specific model selection, all models with Martial Prowess lose it, and gain murderous prowess instead.

Host of the Phoenix King (followers of ) - as above, but models with murderous lose it and gain martial prowess instead.

And then my favorite: Host of the Eternity King. Can take anything from the three books other than a select few special characters. Everyone with Martial prowess gains murderous prowess. Everyone with Murderous gains Martial. Models with Forest stalker lose it, but gain Martial& Muderous Prowess and forest strider (if you like elves, you should love this).

that's a very good objective overview thanks a lot.

Alas it has not made things any easier

But I have ruled out empire/dwarf/skaven. Not a war machine fan.
I like regiments. Must mediate on this. Maybe the force will be with me...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so what are you telling me is that my noble high elves phoenix guard and shadow warriors will follow the filthy betrayer AKA Malekith into battle alongside a hydra accompanied by treants and dryads ?

 Argive wrote:
that's a very good objective overview thanks a lot.

Alas it has not made things any easier

But I have ruled out empire/dwarf/skaven. Not a war machine fan.
I like regiments. Must mediate on this. Maybe the force will be with me...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so what are you telling me is that my noble high elves phoenix guard and shadow warriors will follow the filthy betrayer AKA Malekith into battle alongside a hydra accompanied by treants and dryads ?

For now. Some people believe that after the end times the unified lists will be gone, some believe they will stay. As of right now it is unconfirmed. Currently though yes you can and Malekith is not the betrayer. Tyrion is.

 Argive wrote:
that's a very good objective overview thanks a lot.

Alas it has not made things any easier

But I have ruled out empire/dwarf/skaven. Not a war machine fan.
I like regiments. Must mediate on this. Maybe the force will be with me...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so what are you telling me is that my noble high elves phoenix guard and shadow warriors will follow the filthy betrayer AKA Malekith into battle alongside a hydra accompanied by treants and dryads ?

Hey. Malekith was never the betrayer. I've said it as long as Dark Elves have been in the game. And now I sit here, with the armies of the true Phoenix King and a look of pure smugness on my face as I'm right in my vindication.

Pull the other one.... Tyrion was never the phoenix king or was intended to be. He was a general through and through as far as I remember from the fluff I read.
Other elves though he should be because he was so awesome and better then the current phoenix king and all that jazz...but...

Malekith was burned by asuryan and then proceeded to ally with the forces of chaos and basically blow up 70% of ulthaun.... That was my understanding...

"Hey guys I dropped the ball starting a mass civil war and the "time of strife". So If I sorry can I be king now ?"
This fluff is off the chart crazy...

 Argive wrote:
Pull the other one.... Tyrion was never the phoenix king or was intended to be. He was a general through and through as far as I remember from the fluff I read.
Other elves though he should be because he was so awesome and better then the current phoenix king and all that jazz...but...

Malekith was burned by asuryan and then proceeded to ally with the forces of chaos and basically blow up 70% of ulthaun.... That was my understanding...

"Hey guys I dropped the ball starting a mass civil war and the "time of strife". So If I sorry can I be king now ?"
This fluff is off the chart crazy...

It is allegedly explained that it was all Morathi. Malekith was SUPPOSED to be the phoenix king but the elves in all their petty bs ways decided they needed to elect a king. I mean come on eventhe king of the bret(oni)ons knows that

hmmm guess its been a while. My lore is hazy
But yes there was that issue with "interpreting the law".

Hard one to get my head around. "ther ther Malekith we know you didin't mean to single handedly destroy our nation and was misled by your evil mother *hugs* lets all be friends"


But okay I can buy that... yes.. yes.. the filthy evil witch woman!!!

Thanks for getting me up to speed bro's.

 Argive wrote:

Hard one to get my head around. "ther ther Malekith we know you didin't mean to single handedly destroy our nation and was misled by your evil mother *hugs* lets all be friends"

.

Not so much that as:

Avatar of destruction you say? Big crazy rage monster you say? High elves it is then
I just cant say no to those phoenix guard and sword-master models


On a side note...

One project I always wanted to do but admittedly could never afford when I was feeding my warhammer hobby from paper rounds and pocket money was: buy the carotaurus(or whatever its called...) give it some massive wings, file of the lizardmen insignia and non-elf motifs and convert it into a High Elf Dragon.. Buy a dragon prince, give him a bad ass halberd and shield and bobs ur uncle.

will fit well with my Eldar...

You can't field Tyrion Avatar of Khaine with Phoenix Guard. They do not follow him, they follow Malekith.

That said you can just field a pure High Elf force and use regular Tyrion.

I love the Dark Elf models.. I think, Once I have used my new Warriors of Chaos to relearn the game (I dont think I need to build anything on them, They seem like a complete army already) I will start working (Very slowly cus I am horribly slow at assembling and painting models.. xD) on a Dark Elf army ^_^ Had my first fantasy match in years today! It was fun, I missed Fantasy so much during the years my group only played 40k..

That makes sense I guess.

I've decied I will predominantly go with HE as an actual army for battle but I'll budget in to buy other units from random armies that I like on the side this year. (ushatbi, chaos warrior foot, juggernaut, DA dreadlord on dragon to name a few...lol)

Without doubt I will get bored with painting elves and eldar so it will be nice to get stuck into other stuff from time to time...

What happened with Dogs of War ?
Is that not a thing anymore ? No models on GW site...

I really liked how you can field random mercenary armies which made a lot of sense with the fluff and was really cool IMO.

I think Dogs of War dissapeared when 8'th edition came out.. Apparantly they where not popular enough..

a pity :(

 Argive wrote:
That makes sense I guess.

I've decied I will predominantly go with HE as an actual army for battle but I'll budget in to buy other units from random armies that I like on the side this year. (ushatbi, chaos warrior foot, juggernaut, DA dreadlord on dragon to name a few...lol)

Without doubt I will get bored with painting elves and eldar so it will be nice to get stuck into other stuff from time to time...

What happened with Dogs of War ?
Is that not a thing anymore ? No models on GW site...

I really liked how you can field random mercenary armies which made a lot of sense with the fluff and was really cool IMO.

This is a good method to go with, pick one to focus on, and sprinkle in the stuff you like from the other two. You can always play Mono-Elf and you can also sprinkle in the other things if you are playing an End Times Host. Which means get a copy of End Times: Khaine, as there's lots of things you'll need to know in there.

As High Elf players, you obviously want HE core to have to just in case Unified Elves goes away (any other game company i wouldn't bring it up... but... yeah... GeeDubbs).

For the most part though if you go with unified elves, unless you LOVE Malekith the Phoenix King, or by turn LOVE Tyrion Avatar of Khaine + Morathi, i recommend running with the Host of the Eternity King. You get access to everyting other than a small handful of special characters across all three elven books, and everything has martial prowess gets murderous prowess and vice versa (the other two lists will have martial prowess or murders, HotEK gets BOTH as long as the model had one or the other to begin with).

Finally, with HotEK, with High Elves as your main focus, you can sprinkle in the really exquisite things like Doomfire Warlocks, Sisters of the thorn, maybe some wild riders if you like cav, etc. Load up on hotness High Elven special, and then do a nice mix of HE / DE / WE core as you like (i kinda lean heavily towards HE and DE personally, but Glade Guard are fun to pepper in too!).

Honestly i like Host of the Eternity King because the sheer weight of options you get is stunning. Fun stuff like "My sword Masters or White Lions go in a Cauldron of Blood unit, with a high magic using mage that makes the ward the cauldron passes out better", and other equally nutty type stuff. Also if you play with one of the Elven Hosts, then you auto-play with End TImes Magic, which actually makes Phoenixes better due to having 2 more dice to get a higher roll on their penalty/bonus chart. The chances on 4 dice of getting a 3+ for a positive return are pretty damn good.


... anywho, i could sit and gush about HE and HotEK all day.



EDIT: Heh, i think i might have misinterpreted what you wrote... not sure how much of what i wrote in the above is actually relevant ! Apologies on that.

Rant away. I'm learning.

The first half of the year will be about Eldar so I can play 40k with couple of my mates, so focus will be there.

Ill pick up some regiments ever now and then tho... I think archers and spearmen to make my own lothren guard
In terms of battle force, Ill stick to pure High Elf. Just coz I'm old school like that.

But I'll get some other models.

Will do a carnosaurus conversion as my dragon mount for the main "grunt" factor coz ive always wanted to do it...
I'm not really fussed with winning. I'd rather field army I think looks good to me on that table and hope the chaos gods will smile on my dice If that means glorious death then so be it!

At the end of the day everyone has had some incredible wins and losses due to those dice rolls at some point.
I once got a whole regiment of heavy silver helms wiped out by some gakky goblins/gremilns or rats (cant remember) on my charge turn... Didint get a single kill, lost units , fled. run 2".. 2"!!!!!! and got run down everyone in the shop was laughing their asses off, was so funny.

Merellin wrote:
I think Dogs of War dissapeared when 8'th edition came out.. Apparantly they where not popular enough..

Dogs of War weren't in 7th properly. A couple of books had the options to take Dogs of War as a rare choice, but they had no book of their own.

Well... I just got a phoenix guard command box off ebay (the old metals models are much nicer IMO) and so it begins...