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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:23:22
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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ALBANY, N.Y. — Handing environmentalists a breakthrough victory, New York plans to prohibit fracking for natural gas because of what regulators say are its unexplored health risks and dubious economic benefits.
New York, which overlies part of the gas-rich Marcellus Shale formation that has led to a drilling boom in Pennsylvania and other nearby states, has banned shale gas development since 2008, when the state began an environmental review of the drilling technique also known as hydraulic fracturing.
Wednesday's announcement, though not final, means a ban is all but etched in stone.
"Never before has a state with proven gas reserves banned fracking," said Deborah Goldberg, an attorney with Earthjustice, adding that the decision "will give courage to elected leaders throughout the country and world: Fracking is too dangerous and must not continue."
Industry and its supporters expressed outrage at the decision.
"We are very disappointed that it appears the governor is unwilling to be a leader and is going to pass the buck at the expense of New Yorkers," said Jack Gerard, president of the American Petroleum Institute.
"This technology has been used for over 65 years in the United States. It's been demonstrated repeatedly after drilling millions of wells that we're able to do it while protecting the environment and protecting the people."
Environmental Commissioner Joe Martens said Wednesday that he is recommending a ban, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, responded that he would defer to Martens and Acting Health Commissioner Howard Zucker on the decision.
The Department of Environmental Conservation will put out a final environmental impact statement early next year, Martens said, and after that he will issue an order prohibiting fracking.
About 30 anti-fracking activists cheered the decision at a rally outside Cuomo's New York City office, chanting "Thank you, Governor Cuomo, for saving our air!" and "New York banned fracking — and next, United States!"
Zucker and Martens on Wednesday summarized environmental and health reviews that concluded fracking carries risks that haven't been studied enough.
The drilling boom in the Marcellus Shale, which also runs under Ohio and West Virginia, was made possible by high-volume hydraulic fracturing, which releases gas from rock by injecting wells with chemically treated water at high pressure.
The technique has generated tens of billions of dollars in industry profits and landowner royalties, and has reduced energy bills and fuel imports. But it has also brought concerns and sparked protests over air and water pollution, earthquakes, property devaluation and truck traffic.
Zucker said he had identified "significant public health risks" and "red flag" health issues that require long-term studies before fracking can be called safe. He likened fracking to secondhand smoke, which wasn't fully understood as a health risk until many years of scientific study were done.
Martens noted the low price of natural gas, the high local cost of industry oversight, and the large areas that would be off limits to shale gas development because of setback requirements, water supply protections and local prohibitions. Those factors, he said, combine to make fracking less economically beneficial than anticipated.
Even if drilling were allowed in New York, it probably wouldn't take off any time soon because of the uncertainty around regulations and legal challenges and the huge number of promising drilling locations that remain in Pennsylvania, David Spigelmyer, president of the industry group Marcellus Shale Coalition, said last week.
The Marcellus Shale is enticing to energy companies because of its proximity to the major demand centers of New York City and New England, which is paying more for gas because of delivery constraints. But the regulatory uncertainty remains too high to commit to drilling in New York, Spigelmyer said.
In states where fracking is not yet allowed or is happening but is subject to criticism, New York's move excited some anti-drilling activists.
"The more fracking expands, the more opposition grows," said Sharon Wilson, of the group Earthworks, who has organized anti-fracking activists in Texas, California and Colorado. "Industry is its own worst enemy because they continue to deny the impacts."
Fracking supporters decried the New York move. Karen Moreau, executive director of New York's branch of the American Petroleum Institute, said the Cuomo administration is denying landowners the right to develop their mineral resources.
"The secretary of energy, the U.S. EPA administrator and President Obama recognize the benefits of fracking, and yet the Cuomo administration simply did not want to anger their activist base," Moreau said.
Dan Fitzsimmons, president of the Joint Landowners Coalition, which represents leaseholders, accused Cuomo of appeasing "environmental extremists" for political gain.
"Is our health department ignoring impacts of other energy options and suggesting that we continue with our reliance on coal and nuclear energy?" Fitzsimmons said. "Did our health department consider the health effects of poverty and unemployment?"
Cuomo said he is expecting lawsuits will be filed "every which way from Sunday."
In California, energy companies have been using a type of fracking to extract oil for many years and are pushing to expand such drilling. Environmental groups hope the New York decision will influence Gov. Jerry Brown, who has largely supported fracking. A scientific study is due to be released next month.
Californians will ask now, "If it's not safe for New Yorkers, why should we think it's safe for us?" said Charles Margulis, with the California branch of the national Center for Environmental Health, a nonprofit organization.
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Associated Press writers Jon Fahey and Jenn Peltz in New York, Emily Schmall in Dallas and Don Thompson in Sacramento contributed to this report.
Source: AP
I'm quite happy about this personally. And I'm proud of Cuomo, this may damage him in national races, and he obviously has presidential ambitions.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:38:58
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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He ain't got a prayer nationally.
But... hey, no-fracking in NY?
*shrugs*
It's you state... have at it!
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:45:09
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Other than the gun law, he is actually pretty good, nothing he has done other than that is particularly controversial. He is closer to a moderate republican on a lot of economic issues. Now I'm not cheering him on to run, but he has a pretty good chance in the primaries at least. Although he will probably only run if Hillary doesn't.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:45:55
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Brutal Black Orc
The Empire State
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Well that is surprising.
My family got a lot of money leasing land to a gas company down in PA as did a lot of people in rural areas.
It's a shame a lot of them will end up broke.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:49:09
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Oh look. Now that dropping oil prices have ruined profitability, the environmentalists get a bone thrown to them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 04:03:50
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Ah hell. We need fracking if the US ever wants to become self sufficient. Plus I've been hearing about some new fracking solution that is non-toxic (still tastes awful) but isn't straight up poison. The CEO of the company that made it even drank a can of the stuff.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 04:16:55
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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There are countless was to become self sufficient for energy. Big oil just doesn't like any of those ideas and buys the political and regulatory process to block them, make it too expensive, or just buys the patents and sits on them. Fracking isn't and never has been necessary. Just convenient.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 04:17:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 04:33:26
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Douglas Bader
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And it's just hilarious to talk about being "self sufficient" with a limited resource. Using up our own oil resources more aggressively might shift demand away from foreign sources for a while, but it's not going to last forever and then we're right back where we started.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 04:59:39
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Kid_Kyoto
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Peregrine wrote:And it's just hilarious to talk about being "self sufficient" with a limited resource. Using up our own oil resources more aggressively might shift demand away from foreign sources for a while, but it's not going to last forever and then we're right back where we started.
But it'll "make America great again"!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 05:26:11
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Yup.
Shale 0 - Saudi Arabia 1
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 05:48:37
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Wyzilla wrote:Ah hell. We need fracking if the US ever wants to become self sufficient.
We'll never be self sufficent and Saudi Arabia is winning, huh?
US oil imports (2012):
Of that imported oil, here is how much of it we use compared to what we produce:
EDIT: The picture wasn't working, but the answer is that net imports accounted for only 33% of the petroleum consumed in the United States.
So let's not pretend that no fracking in New York is a massive victory for the Saudis.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 06:13:42
d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 06:25:49
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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But who Doesn't want flammable tap water?!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 07:59:18
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Major
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I'm fairly certain the whole flammable tap water thing was discredited ages ago.
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"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 12:14:00
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Can somebody please provide me with a reliable source that would state is fracking polluting, or not.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 12:32:37
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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LordofHats wrote:Oh look. Now that dropping oil prices have ruined profitability, the environmentalists get a bone thrown to them 
Because we are smart and do lots of long term thinking SUV sales have risen 80-90% with the price of gas going down. It will never go up again, right?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 12:57:41
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Ahtman wrote: LordofHats wrote:Oh look. Now that dropping oil prices have ruined profitability, the environmentalists get a bone thrown to them 
Because we are smart and do lots of long term thinking SUV sales have risen 80-90% with the price of gas going down. It will never go up again, right?
When hurricane season goes away.
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 13:31:20
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Wyzilla wrote:Ah hell. We need fracking if the US ever wants to become self sufficient. Plus I've been hearing about some new fracking solution that is non-toxic (still tastes awful) but isn't straight up poison. The CEO of the company that made it even drank a can of the stuff.
You must not remember Thomas Midgley Jr.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 13:41:01
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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The spike in low MPG vehicles isn't attributable to weather phenomena.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 13:49:34
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Ahtman wrote: LordofHats wrote:Oh look. Now that dropping oil prices have ruined profitability, the environmentalists get a bone thrown to them 
Because we are smart and do lots of long term thinking SUV sales have risen 80-90% with the price of gas going down. It will never go up again, right?
We could learn a thing or two from the Saudi's  Those guys know how to manipulate and maintain a market
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 13:54:08
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Fixture of Dakka
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I have helped friends who drill water wells. From what they've told me, there is natural Methane that occurs and depending how far you sink the water pipe, you can get good or nasty water.
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/06/theres-methane-in-your-drinking-water-so-what.html
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 17:41:13
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Was there also a shaky link between Frakking and seismic activity?
In other news, I love the shrewd and nasty business move by OPEC to over-produce to drive the price down and make the alternatives to Oil untenable. Therefore, rescuring their monopoly. Brilliant really.
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Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 17:57:40
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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Easy E wrote:Was there also a shaky link between Frakking and seismic activity?.
Here in north Texas, we seem to be having a lot more earthquakes than we did just five years ago. Or, at least, they're just getting reported more often.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 18:02:51
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Sienisoturi wrote:Can somebody please provide me with a reliable source that would state is fracking polluting, or not.
Good luck with that, my best searches generally provide results from groups who are either pro- or con- to fracking... So they all have their little agenda.
Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that it is "polluting" (hell, if some of the stuff out there is correct, its downright destroying) the environment. This is mostly because the loudest voices saying it's safe, are the people making money off of it, so it's only natural to say whatever it takes to keep them working. (Similar to Ford trying to sell the Pinto  )
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 19:32:47
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!
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whembly wrote:
But... hey, no-fracking in NY?
*shrugs*
It's your state... have at it!
It's not just his state. The water table in NY has a direct impact on the water quality in the Chesapeake Bay. The Bay's watershed covers six states, which makes effective legislation to clean it impossible to enact (try getting VA, WVa, DE, MD, PA, and NY to all agree to the same laws without the Feds kicking them in the teeth first). If there's no fracking in NY, there is one less thing f-ing up the water in the Chesapeake.
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Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 02:31:09
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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Yeah, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were all about the oil...
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I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 03:31:29
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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DarkLink wrote:
Yeah, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were all about the oil...
That's why no one with a shade of credibility makes that claim.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 03:45:21
Subject: Re:New York to ban fracking
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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Pretty much. I don't seem to run into very many people with credibility, though. Why make an informed decision when a snap judgement based on stereotypes will do?
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I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 04:06:48
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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squidhills wrote:
It's not just his state. The water table in NY has a direct impact on the water quality in the Chesapeake Bay. The Bay's watershed covers six states, which makes effective legislation to clean it impossible to enact (try getting VA, WVa, DE, MD, PA, and NY to all agree to the same laws without the Feds kicking them in the teeth first). If there's no fracking in NY, there is one less thing f-ing up the water in the Chesapeake.
And as a resident of Virginia and a lover of delicious blue crabs, I approve of this!
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 16:37:07
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Fixture of Dakka
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Wyzilla wrote:Ah hell. We need fracking if the US ever wants to become self sufficient.
We'll never be self sufficent and Saudi Arabia is winning, huh?
US oil imports (2012):
Of that imported oil, here is how much of it we use compared to what we produce:
EDIT: The picture wasn't working, but the answer is that net imports accounted for only 33% of the petroleum consumed in the United States.
So let's not pretend that no fracking in New York is a massive victory for the Saudis.
You are correct. The U.S. has more rigs operating than anywhere else in the world. OPEC is trying a Walmart style tactic. Flood with cheap stuff, put the competition out of business, then jack the price.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 17:06:08
Subject: New York to ban fracking
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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While it may not prove to be a "massive victory" for Saudi Arabia, it still removes a level of competability with other states that do allow it. The economy in N. Dakota has exploded since it became big there. Would it have been a big thing for New York? Probably not, but it could have meant more jobs, and more money for the state overall.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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