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 Jihadin wrote:

Its a smack in the face. Its basically telling him he fails at being a leader

I'm not sure I'm expressing my confusion at this adequately, to be honest.

In my naive view of the world, apolitical public servants, making a negative political statement to the holder of a publicly elected office, seems like a very bad thing indeed.


Especially, as, the City of New York has significantly more population than the Country of Scotland.

 Da Boss wrote:
So because some of the protesters are dillholes and this guy committed a really horrible crime, we can't have sympathy for people being treated unfairly by a broken system?

Come on guys. We're all capable of appreciating the complexity of the situation better than that.

In Ireland atm?

I am yeah. I'm home with the parents right now.

You'll see my level of obnoxious posting increase of Christmas as I relax with a beer and watch Ultimate Survival Alaska with my brother

 the shrouded lord wrote:
there is a difference between killing someone when your life, and the lives of others, is in the balance and murder. they are two different things.
and if you cannot see the iffence between a cop killing a guy in a chokehold (which, by the way, may well have been a headlock, and it is very easy for the two to switch between each other I have first hand experience in that regard) by accident. and two cops being murdered while sitting in a car by a nutjob.
what, do you think that the cop went "gee, a black guy, better kill 'im"?

I saw the video, no ones life was in danger, that was in no means self defense. it was if nothing else, involuntary manslaughter caused through reckless conduct.

"The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if it was committed through an act of reckless conduct. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-penalties-and-sentencing.html#sthash.cEUnAGAS.dpuf"


all the guy was doing was standing there surrounded by cops and saying don't touch me and I can't breathe. Maybe the cop does have a history of excessive force against blacks, there's a 40% chance he's abusing his wife, maybe he was having a bad day and just looking to choke anyone who looked at him funny. It's a shame it didn't go to trial so all the facts of the case could be revealed.

maybe the cops were murdered in self defense, I mean if 1 black guy selling cigarettes is threatening the lives of others around him, then 2 cops sitting in a car are twice as deadly and threatening the lives of others around them. For all we know he was there to make a citizens arrest against the 2 cops, they resisted, and he had no choice and had to defend himself and the others around him. It's a shame it didn't go to trial so all the facts of the case could be revealed.

 Da Boss wrote:
So because some of the protesters are dillholes and this guy committed a really horrible crime, we can't have sympathy for people being treated unfairly by a broken system?

Come on guys. We're all capable of appreciating the complexity of the situation better than that.

As been noted by several posters in this thread... no one is disregarding that.

However, all these protest, riotings, etc... is turning out to be very counter-productive.

Whembly: The looting, the killings- those are DEFINITELY counterproductive.

But peaceful protest might help get the system changed. And I think most of us agree that it does need change, we just disagree about the degree of fault and the balance of fault between people. I'm in admiration of the protesters who have been out in all weather standing up for their beliefs. I just want to make sure to emphasise that in this discussion where I guess it might be tempting to paint all the protesters as a problem.

As a complete aside:

http://imgur.com/a/2MUYT

 MrDwhitey wrote:
As a complete aside:

http://imgur.com/a/2MUYT

Well, at least people remain classy amidst the madness.

I might point out that certain parties like seeing this, as it played right into their political agenda (no, not talking about Dems or Republicans).

From the BBC website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30341927
Eric Garner death: Protesters highlight other police killings

The US has seen a wave of protests over the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner, two black men killed by white police officers.

During the demonstrations, activists have highlighted other cases across the US of civilian deaths involving police.

Here are some of the cases they are focusing on.


1 Rumain Brisbon, 34, was shot dead by a white police officer this week as he reached into his waistband when instructed to raise his arms, police said. It turned out that he had a pill bottle in his pocket, not a gun. Police in Phoenix, Arizona, said they were investigating drug-related activity at the time.

2 Tamir Rice was shot in Cleveland, Ohio, after a 911 caller told police he was pointing a gun at people in a park.
He was 12 years old and the gun was found to be a toy, but the orange sticker denoting it was a replica had been removed.

3 Darrien Hunt was shot by police officers in Saratoga Springs, Utah, while dressed as a samurai and holding a decorative sword.

The county attorney ruled last month that the killing on 10 September 2014 was 'justified', saying Mr Hunt had "swung or stabbed" the sword towards at least one of the officers. His family and civil rights activists are calling for a review of the findings.

An autopsy report reportedly showed Mr Hunt was shot in the back, while CCTV footage appeared to how him running away from officers.

4 Ezell Ford was shot dead by police in Los Angeles on 11 August after officers said he tried to grab the gun out of an officer's holster. The 25-year-old, who was mentally ill, is said to have tackled the officer, but a witness told the LA Times she saw no such struggle.

Police are looking for more witnesses, while Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti has called for the release of an autopsy report.

5 Michael Brown was killed by Darren Wilson, a white police officer, on 9 August in the St Louis suburb of Ferguson, Missouri. Mr Wilson said he opened fire after a struggle in the patrol car during which Mr Brown reached for his weapon.

Some said the teenager, who was unarmed, had his hands up. His death sparked protests, sometimes violent, as police were criticised for using military grade riot gear. Further unrest followed a grand jury's decision not to charge Mr Wilson.

6 Eric Garner, 43, was stopped on a street in New York on 17 July 2014 on suspicion of selling loose, untaxed cigarettes. After a confrontation, police officer Daniel Pantaleo placed his arm round Mr Garner's neck in an apparent "chokehold".

Mr Garner, who had asthma, was wrestled to the ground and restrained by force. On video of the incident, he can be heard repeatedly saying "'I cant breathe". He became unresponsive and later died.

7 Dontre Hamilton was killed by white police officer Christopher Manney in Milwaukee in April. Mr Hamilton, whose family said he had suffered from schizophrenia, was shot after workers at a Starbucks cafe called police to complain about him sleeping in a park.

According to Mr Manney, Mr Hamilton resisted arrest when he tried to frisk him, and hit him on the neck after the two exchanged punches. Mr Manney then shot him 14 times.

A local prosecutor said he would not bring charges against the officer because Mr Manney had acted in self-defence. The US justice department has said it will review the case.

8 Trayvon Martin, 17, was shot by George Zimmerman, a neighbourhood watch coordinator, in Sanford, Florida, and was unarmed at the time.

Mr Zimmerman, the man who shot him, was not a police officer, but the killing in February 2012 became particularly controversial due to Mr Zimmerman's eventual acquittal. The case has been cited by numerous commentators in the wake of the deaths of Mr Brown and Mr Garner.

9 The killing of Bernard Bailey in 2011 came under the spotlight after a white former police chief was charged with his murder on Thursday.

Richards Combs is accused of shooting Mr Bailey, who was unarmed, after a fight outside the town hall in the tiny South Carolina town of Eutawville

And December 2014: Akai Gurley, 28, was shot by a rookie police officer while walking into his apartment building in New York. Mr Gurley was not armed

 Compel wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

Did not see the video of all the LEO turning their back on De Blasio at City Hall?

Admittedly, my knowledge of the NYC and its mayors role extends to some barely remembered episodes of Spin City I watched 10 years ago but... The implications of this idea seems bad, like, really bad. - Is the Mayor elected in some form? (I think he is?) and, is his election by, well, the inhabitants of the city?

To answer your question, yes, the mayor of NY is elected by the inhabitants of the city, as is the case with most mayors in the US.

We were discussing how dangerous domestic violence cases can be for police officers. I saw this story today.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/28/rookie-ariz-police-officer-killed-in-shootout/

Wow, reading the article, watch out for those Navajo Tribal Police. Surviving being shot in the face is either very tough or very lucky.

 Compel wrote:
In my naive view of the world, apolitical public servants, making a negative political statement to the holder of a publicly elected office, seems like a very bad thing indeed.

It isn't naive and you are right. It is poor showings like this that have helped lead to problems in the first place. On the other hand we have been taught that political grandstanding and blame shifting is easier then engaging with an issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Wow, reading the article, watch out for those Navajo Tribal Police. Surviving being shot in the face is either very tough or very lucky.

A buddy of mine that is a cop here was shot in the head and survived. It all happened so quick he didn't realize he had been hit in the head until the EMTs showed up. Some guy was robbing a store with a gun and he saw it and told him to drop his weapon and the guy turned and fired. He dropped the guy and took one in across the neck but not fataly so went and sat outside and waited for the EMT and other cops. A bunch of area teens saw him there holding his neck after hearing the noise and talked to him until back up arrived. It was then they found that not only was his neck grazed but that a bullet was lodged in his head. He was in the hospital a bit and made a full recovery.

 Ahtman wrote:

A buddy of mine that is a cop here was shot in the head and survived. It all happened so quick he didn't realize he had been hit in the head until the EMTs showed up. Some guy was robbing a store with a gun and he saw it and told him to drop his weapon and the guy turned and fired. He dropped the guy and took one in across the neck but not fataly so went and sat outside and waited for the EMT and other cops. A bunch of area teens saw him there holding his neck after hearing the noise and talked to him until back up arrived. It was then they found that not only was his neck grazed but that a bullet was lodged in his head. He was in the hospital a bit and made a full recovery.

Were there no mental issues? There are a lot of cases in which stuff like that happens and the person's personality or cognitive capabilities shift radically after the event.

 daedalus wrote:
Were there no mental issues? There are a lot of cases in which stuff like that happens and the person's personality or cognitive capabilities shift radically after the event.

Nope. This happened some time ago at this point and he had regular check ups for a few years afterward to make sure there were not any lasting effects. In the end the bullet curved the skull and lodged in behind his ear. He was a big guy already so that coupled with a bullet not piercing his skull got him the nickname Robocop for awhile.

 daedalus wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

A buddy of mine that is a cop here was shot in the head and survived. It all happened so quick he didn't realize he had been hit in the head until the EMTs showed up. Some guy was robbing a store with a gun and he saw it and told him to drop his weapon and the guy turned and fired. He dropped the guy and took one in across the neck but not fataly so went and sat outside and waited for the EMT and other cops. A bunch of area teens saw him there holding his neck after hearing the noise and talked to him until back up arrived. It was then they found that not only was his neck grazed but that a bullet was lodged in his head. He was in the hospital a bit and made a full recovery.

Were there no mental issues? There are a lot of cases in which stuff like that happens and the person's personality or cognitive capabilities shift radically after the event.

Last I heard he was still living

There is also a Marine who placed a blasting cap in his mouth and his fillings set it off. Believe he is still alive

 daedalus wrote:


Were there no mental issues? There are a lot of cases in which stuff like that happens and the person's personality or cognitive capabilities shift radically after the event.

That would be likely if the bullet entered the brain, but getting shot in the head/face does not mean that the bullet will enter the brain. But you're damn lucky if it doesn't.

From what Ahtman described, he only got hit in the neck and it missed the spinal cord. So no brain injury, but he's pretty darn lucky.