How useful do you find Lasguns?

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**vipoid**

I'm just curious as to how much use IG players get out of their humble lasguns.

Do you find that you can kill a lot of stuff with massed-fire (and possibly FRFSRF)?

Or, do they just put on a good light-show, whilst your other weapons do the real work?

**Paradigm**

Very useful. Throw on FRF, chuck a bucketful of dice, and something is dying. Prescience them for even more fun!

**TheDraconicLord**

i think this comic explains it properly:

Spoiler:

**lustigjh**

Massed weak fire is the best way to take down units with strong invulnerable saves (Wraiths, termies, some warlords, etc). I say "weak" because it means it's cheap & spammable as you're not paying for high strength or low AP which would go to waste on an invulnerable save.

**Tod**

Its very useful especially with FRFSRF, and in massed blob for taking down smaller, elite units such as TEQ or MEQ

**Makumba**

I would rather have mass str4 guns or more options for heavy weapons or at least an option to join HWT in to blobs. lasguns do nothing to transports and the chance to actualy hurt a +2 t5 target is super slim without loaded dice, even with orders.

**Blacksails**

In a vet/mechvet list, they're not doing much. There's simply not enough of them to much besides the occasional wound over the course of 6 turns.

In a foot list, they'll do more, but I don't think they'll be changing the outcomes of games. Your heavies and specials and vehicles are going to account for most of your damage. The potential to have ~30 lasguns with FRFSRF and a PE bubble is there, but its still not anything to write home about. Rolling 90 dice will get 45 hits, which will result in 15 wounds against T4, then a marine will make 10 of those saves resulting in 5 deaths. Its not terrible, especially when points are factored in, but that's pretty much a best case scenario.

Basically, I don't care about them if I have less than 10 of them in range, but over that I might kill something. I still depend on special, heavy, and vehicle weapons for the real damage.

**juraigamer**

Even without orders, lotsa lasgun fire is pretty deadly to most stuff. A lot of people argue taking psykers to make them re-roll to hit, but instead of doing that you can just take 10 more guardsmen at least.

Lasguns are like dollar bills, the more you have the better it gets.

**WarbossDakka**

Honestly it depends what you fire at. You aren't Necrons so you cannot hurt vehicles at all. Troops don't like lasguns at all and the more you have, the better. Don't rely on them but they can do something if you get FRFSRF off in RF range.

**Martel732**

Because of the troop that carries them, they are much better than bolters.

**TheAvengingKnee**

1 lasgun= borderline useless
50 rapid firing FRFSRF lasguns = terrifying to anything they can hurt.

**Kosake**

I find them obnoxious at best. They give even the unarmored orks something to roll against (AP-) so it's just a bucket of hassle.

**jhe90**

One gun is useless, 50 putting out 100+ shots, now that begins to work very well.
Add a psyker, perfect.

**General Annoyance**

The IG codex fluff sums up Lasguns and their use perfectly:

"While a single mass reactive bolter shell from a Space Marine can stop a single foe in their tracks, the hail of a million lasguns can halt the advance of an entire army"

Basically, Lasguns trump any small arm in massive quantities. And since most IG players run at least 30-40 Guardsman of some sort, to say that they are useful against infantry is an understatement!

G.A

**ultimentra**

As an IG player, I found that in my limited experience with the game, in even playing Mechanized, LasGuns have killed more things than any other gun or vehicle I bring.

Lasguns are the secret weapon of the IG, they are underestimated and will always be underestimated. Secretly they are our most reliable weapon to kill things dead given how many you can take.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

As Lord Castellan of Cadia, I would recommend the lasgun. You would be surprised mow many choas marines have fallen to my vets with a surprised look on their face.

But what sums up the amazingness of the lazgun the most, is that I KILLED TYPHUS ON OVERWATCH WITH A LAZGUN, IS THAT NOT PROOF OF HOW AWESOME IT IS?!?!?!?!?!?!

Then his hoard of zombles got stomped by excessive amounts of flamers, grenade launchers and Lazguns, and the helldrake couldnt kill them all.

**Vaktathi**

vipoid wrote:
I'm just curious as to how much use IG players get out of their humble lasguns.

Do you find that you can kill a lot of stuff with massed-fire (and possibly FRFSRF)?

Or, do they just put on a good light-show, whilst your other weapons do the real work?

Generally, I find they do absolutely nothing of note typically

Now, there's probably a couple reasons for this. First, I don't run IG armies with massive blob platoons getting off FRFSRF, which is about the only way you're going to get any statistically relevant casualties from said lasguns. Second, there's been a very large bloat in the resiliency of what you typically face in a 40k game.

Lasguns are a weapon that functionally is probably about as powerful as it should be fluff-wise, as a basic human weapon its relatively capable of killing other basic humans, but the overwhelmingly vast majority of units in the game are significantly tougher than that, and thus, their effectiveness is typically severely limited.

Sometime's you'll randomly get a wound to stick or kill something spectacular with a lasgun or laspistol but it's one of those things that everyone is always shocked and amused by, it's an event worthy of note.

That said, I'm not really butthurt about that, basic IG infantry are cheap (though not spectacular for their cost) and the lasgun has never really been the primary killing power of the army.

Hot-shot Lasguns on the other hand are woefully inadequate, the low strength having an exceedingly difficult time actually hurting something that AP3 would be useful against, and their shorter range means it's both difficult to get in the number of shots you need and requires putting your Space Marine priced T3 4+sv Ld7/8 infantry in perfect retaliation range. These desperately need changing. I wouldn't be at all opposed to them losing AP3 either if they gained something else useful.

**Guardsmen Bob**

TheDraconicLord wrote:
i think this comic explains it properly:

Spoiler:

I agree with this comic, it takes about that many lasguns to kill a single marine.

However, I find that in my games, the only way to kill terminators is with lasguns, or Executioner tank. I don't know why though...(the second one is obvious, but still).

**EVIL INC**

I dont know, I've had 2 squads of lowly guardsmen (that had already been whittled down) kill lysander and a squad of termies after they deployed from a drop pod (without even using frf orders).

Generally, they dont do a lot for me but occasionally they surprise me.

**Swastakowey**

The best thing about lasguns, is if they do nothing, it doesnt feel like they have been wasted.

A few years ago I used to not upgrade my men and just use lasguns. Still wont games relying on tanks etc for the big scary stuff.

In my experience lasguns neat weapons for their cost.

**Las**

Anything up to T6 even with a 2+ save, will have a hard time surviving at most 2 turns of FRF.

Edit: providing the platoon is the correct size.

**pads1982**

The issue I find is time, a 30 man blob with frsrf is 90 dice, with prescience, is a lot of dice to roll, I mostly play marines so it's heart rending to see only a couple of marines die, meanwhile I have wiped out a whole squad with a single leman russ shell, mech all the way now

**Bobthehero**

Can't platoon like the standard IG, so FRFSRF is a lot less useful. Especially with cheap Thudd guns and Earthshakers.

**Vaktathi**

Las wrote:
Anything up to T6 even with a 2+ save, will have a hard time surviving at most 2 turns of FRF.

Edit: providing the platoon is the correct size.

T6 with a 2+ save will, on average, take 2 wounds from 50 lasguns getting off FRFSRF, that's 250pts before any upgrades, needing a secondary command unit to engage that order. For that many points, that's not a stellar return.

**nedTCM**

Vaktathi wrote:
Las wrote:
Anything up to T6 even with a 2+ save, will have a hard time surviving at most 2 turns of FRF.

Edit: providing the platoon is the correct size.
T6 with a 2+ save will, on average, take 2 wounds from 50 lasguns getting off FRFSRF, that's 250pts before any upgrades, needing a secondary command unit to engage that order. For that many points, that's not a stellar return.

The thing is though, you are already taking those lasguns. In general], it is carry around special or heavy weapons. Weapons that are kept alive with the bodies. The price is already justified because of this.

The T6 2+ save is not really the ideal target. But you can get some work done against that unit if you need to, which is the key. Also, you get a little more benefit from monster hunter order there.

**Skinnereal**

If S3 is enough to hurt it, use enough S3 to wipe it off the table.
So, ignoring the saves for now, an army of lasguns can kill off up to T6. If the saves are good, use more lasguns.

As for command units and orders, try standing 500 points of a basic platoon up against tactical marines. How many marines die before the blob routs?

**SYKOJAK**

lustigjh wrote:
Massed weak fire is the best way to take down units with strong invulnerable saves (Wraiths, termies, some warlords, etc). I say "weak" because it means it's cheap & spammable as you're not paying for high strength or low AP which would go to waste on an invulnerable save.

Bingo! That is my thoughts exactly. AP1 or 2 is useless versus invulnerable saves. However, with this being said, lasguns are completely useless versus any and all types of vehicle units.

**Martel732**

SYKOJAK wrote:
lustigjh wrote:
Massed weak fire is the best way to take down units with strong invulnerable saves (Wraiths, termies, some warlords, etc). I say "weak" because it means it's cheap & spammable as you're not paying for high strength or low AP which would go to waste on an invulnerable save.

Bingo! That is my thoughts exactly. AP1 or 2 is useless versus invulnerable saves. However, with this being said, lasguns are completely useless versus any and all types of vehicle units.

IG has plenty of ways to frag vehicles.

**Gamerely**

I've had ABYSMAL luck with them. I've had games where I failed to cause a single wound with them. I once fired a combined total of 150 shots into a unit of thunderwolves charges at me and failed to cause a single wound. He didn't have to make one armor save.