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Now that End Times has been out a while, how is everyone liking the new magic phase?
Are you using it?
How are you using it?
Is it fun?

We're doing the 4D6 thing, spells that do not go off (rolled to low, dispelled) cannot be cast again, by any wizards.
Bound spells can use any number of dice (D6 limit is wizards)
Dispelling you can use any number of dice if you don't use a wizard.
End Times Spells can be dispelled as normal.

With the changes to dispelling end times spells as normal, and our reading on the restrictions of D6 as wizard only, we like the system, and it has been fun.

How have your games been going?

I had the debate about the dispelling thing and it is a stupid point. Dispelling isn't, and never was a failed casting attempt. I see why it's done, but it's stupid.

HOWEVER, allowing recasts of the same spell. (Page 32 of the rulebook states that this is possible) is also stupid.

I'm just going to play under what I'm told is going to be SCGT 2015 rulings. Legions are allowed, super characters aren't, nore are ET magic/spells.

Are you using it: I've played 4 games under the new casting rules. I've played 1 game daemons vs HotEK with the normal casting rules.

My FLGS is playing it as follows:
- 4d6
- if you roll too low you can't cast again that phase with anything (wizard, Bound spell, etc)
- if you are dispelled you can keep casting the same spell
- bound spells can only be cast once per phase
- dispelling relies on the d6, wizard or no (so no dwarves in ET)
- End Times spells can't be dispelled.

Magic is easily my least favorite part of the game, and End Times makes it worse. I hope it does not make it to the next edition of the game.

The Good:
- Random casting and dispel values mean lower level mages can occasionally get spells off versus high level mages
- End Times Spells mean you can still cast when banked dispel dice outnumber the casting dice (I had a 4 power to 5 dispel dice phase)

The Bad:
- Spammable spells encourage list-building around spamming those spells. I dislike when magic shapes the army.
- More spells = more game time lost debating what to cast. Vs a Slaan with access to multiple lores and end times spells, magic phases took forever.

The Ugly:
- Undead Legions with Mortis Engines, Hierophants, Nagash, Mannfred, etc. are simply unfun to play against. I quit two turns into a game against a summoning list because I would rather go home and do chores than play out the game. So if GW would like to close up shop, by all means continue accelerating the magic game.
- I've been on the receiving end of a 24 power die to 11 power die phase. I dispelled like a champ. I still ended up fighting temple guard that were WS/Init 10, T8, Regen 4+, -1 to be hit.

Overall too much power in the magic phase makes tactics irrelevant. If tactics are irrelevant in a tabletop game, why is it a tabletop game? At that point lets just play MTG or something, and stop pretending that models or movement are relevant.

By contrast, my game using the normal casting rules (with summoning) DoC vs HoTEK ran smoothly, and tactical movement was relevant.

WIth regards to the dispelling, it's actually in the rules. You only have to roll D6 dispel dice as a wizard, and as per the BRB, you can choose to not have a wizard dispel.

Agreed. Maybe I can convince my store of that.

We tried it for a while but we've all decided not to use the End Time magic at all. The variable casting dice is nice and helps neuter the nuke spells a bit, but the trade off to get that was a bit too much. We didn't like everyone having Loremaster (esp. my Slann who just had Loremaster (Warhammer)). It just wasn't much fun for anyone involved, and that's the point at the end of the day. Nobody around here really liked Storm of Magic for this exact reason. Bringing it back into the core game isn't going to change that.

Do I like it?
Eh, I find the magic phase no more impactful than the old one, but it takes waaaay too long in comparison

Are you using it?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on what we feel like.

How are you using it?
4d6, if a spell doesn't go off, that wizard cannot cast it again (but other wizards that know it may cast it)
Bound spells and dispelling without wizards still need to roll the d6
End Times spells as per the rules atm

Is it fun?
Too early to say imo.

I've played it 5 times. Mostly with my 2k Nagash list and with my TZ and Khorne Doc. Less big spells more small spells seems to be the key.

Fun? eh not so much, it's tedious. And no one likes getting 6 pink fire's down the flanks of their hordes in a single magic phase. That being said, getting 3 charges on Wand of Whimsy on turn 1 is pretty fun. Spamming treason on slaves then Khannoning off the nearby HPA is a great way to get slaves off the table.

While it powers up my TZ list, I feel it weakens my nagash builds. LVL 5+ titan = easily getting a 16+ for a few different spells on 4 dice, pretty safely. I'm glad some events have banned it.

Is it fun? Yeah, me and my group are having a blast with it. As Arcasia said the emphasis is on small spells not big ones which we like. It feels more like mages whipping magic around & countering each other rather than Gokus [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpPW_Js00U&t=58]spirit bomb

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Is it fun? Yeah, me and my group are having a blast with it. As Arcasia said the emphasis is on small spells not big ones which we like. It feels more like mages whipping magic around & countering each other rather than Gokus [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpPW_Js00U&t=58]spirit bomb

Our biggest complaint is how much more time it takes, you need to budget in an extra 45-90 minutes depending how many wizards / loers you have. But eventually we've toned it down to abut an extra 30 as everyone knows generally what spells they want.

We play that a dispell =/= a failed cast. Our logic is the wizard CASTS the spell. Then the opponent tries to dispel what has been CAST. If the wizard fails to CAST then no dispel attempt is necessary. And if you choose not to use a wizard you may use any number of dispel dice. The d6 is specifically stated to apply to wizards.

The dispel thing doesn't even require a successful casting. It requires a successful casting attempt. And as you can only dispel successful casting attempts, it's painfully obvious that the whole dispelling=failed cast argument is wrong.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Is it fun? Yeah, me and my group are having a blast with it. As Arcasia said the emphasis is on small spells not big ones which we like. It feels more like mages whipping magic around & countering each other rather than Gokus [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpPW_Js00U&t=58]spirit bomb

Our biggest complaint is how much more time it takes, you need to budget in an extra 45-90 minutes depending how many wizards / loers you have. But eventually we've toned it down to abut an extra 30 as everyone knows generally what spells they want.

We play that a dispell =/= a failed cast. Our logic is the wizard CASTS the spell. Then the opponent tries to dispel what has been CAST. If the wizard fails to CAST then no dispel attempt is necessary. And if you choose not to use a wizard you may use any number of dispel dice. The d6 is specifically stated to apply to wizards.

The dispel thing doesn't even require a successful casting. It requires a successful casting attempt. And as you can only dispel successful casting attempts, it's painfully obvious that the whole dispelling=failed cast argument is wrong.

This isn't YMTC, don't derail the thread. The thread is how you are playing it and is it fun. I didn't notice DA that you skipped the is it fun part on your post. Do you find how your playing fun?

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Is it fun? Yeah, me and my group are having a blast with it. As Arcasia said the emphasis is on small spells not big ones which we like. It feels more like mages whipping magic around & countering each other rather than Gokus [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngpPW_Js00U&t=58]spirit bomb

Our biggest complaint is how much more time it takes, you need to budget in an extra 45-90 minutes depending how many wizards / loers you have. But eventually we've toned it down to abut an extra 30 as everyone knows generally what spells they want.

We play that a dispell =/= a failed cast. Our logic is the wizard CASTS the spell. Then the opponent tries to dispel what has been CAST. If the wizard fails to CAST then no dispel attempt is necessary. And if you choose not to use a wizard you may use any number of dispel dice. The d6 is specifically stated to apply to wizards.

The dispel thing doesn't even require a successful casting. It requires a successful casting attempt. And as you can only dispel successful casting attempts, it's painfully obvious that the whole dispelling=failed cast argument is wrong.

This isn't YMTC, don't derail the thread. The thread is how you are playing it and is it fun. I didn't notice DA that you skipped the is it fun part on your post. Do you find how your playing fun?

It's not a YMDC issue. It's a bunch of people assuming something that is incorrect. As for whether it's fun, I play in tournament games so I have 2.5 hour time limits at most.

With the emphasis on smaller spells, with End Times magic, it is a buff to magic resistance, since you are getting off more magic missiles and less test or die spells.

I will say this... Im not sure that they considered that not all lore attributes are created equal. for example, nurgles attribute is insane. With every successful cast and a roll of 6 i gain +1 wound and +1 toughness on the other hand lore of the great maw is awful. it can even end badly and cause a str6 hit against the caster. In other words the more you cast nurgle the better off you are. That's not necessarily so for all attributes. I dont understand why more people dont bring this up. To me its the most problematic part of the new rules. They will need to fix this sort of thing if this type if magic phase is gonna stick around. Just my opinion. To answer your question, I play nurgle... SO I LOVE IT!!!! hahhaa

I have tried it twice. Couple people I play with find it fun, the dwarf player does not.
I limit my casters in my list just to make it fun for people. (Loremaster of Hoeth Level 2 caster) So I stay away from the super powered mages.

I am used to 4d6 casting, since we played alot of storm of magic; and pretty much the only thing that changed was the d6 random limit on casting. All in all, I think it is an awesome addition to the game.

i38steelrain wrote:
I will say this... Im not sure that they considered that not all lore attributes are created equal. for example, nurgles attribute is insane. With every successful cast and a roll of 6 i gain +1 wound and +1 toughness on the other hand lore of the great maw is awful. it can even end badly and cause a str6 hit against the caster. In other words the more you cast nurgle the better off you are. That's not necessarily so for all attributes. I dont understand why more people dont bring this up. To me its the most problematic part of the new rules. They will need to fix this sort of thing if this type if magic phase is gonna stick around. Just my opinion. To answer your question, I play nurgle... SO I LOVE IT!!!! hahhaa

When we play where you can't recast if it is dispelled, we just don't see all that many spells being cast successfully. In a 6 turn game with 108 power dice facing off against 56 dispel dice, I only had 9 spells go off.
In a typical game, counting successful spells, I'm seeing less than 12 spells (about 2 per phase).

Maw isn't terrible. On a 2+ you regain a wound and gain a +1 to cast/dispel with his next attempt.
Being able to spam +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, Stubborn, panic test on a unit, and 2D6 S2 hits no armor are all good.
They've got 5 spells, all fairly easy to cast. None of them are fantastic, but what do you let through?

Try taking a Grut sickle. A level 4 casting with another +2, and an additional +1 when a spell goes off is pretty brutal.

we play the same way. You make good points. The great maw just came to mind bc it can go badly. A better example would be lore of life. Its attribute is completely useless vs armies that aren't daemon or undead. as far as only getting the attribute a few times i can tell you that just this past this weekend i got the attribute twice by turn 2. Noone wants to face a tough 8 Glottkin. I'm not saying its unbeatable but id rather face tough 6 lol. Dont get me wrong im not complaining, I love the new rules. I love all this new end times stuff. Im a person that went years saying "i wish they'd just have separate rules that were a little less limiting" and I got it.GW is doing the right thing as far as im concerned. except not enough khaine hard back lol (couldnt resist)

 Krellnus wrote:
With the emphasis on smaller spells, with End Times magic, it is a buff to magic resistance, since you are getting off more magic missiles and less test or die spells.

As a DE-heavy HotEK player, I do tend to spam magic missiles and direct damage. But only after I've tried to cast at least 2 test or die spells. My metal sorceress is always going to try to throw final trans. Warlocks get dark and death, so why wouldn't I try to throw a purple sun every round. Haven't tried the dark magic vortex yet, but its only a matter of time. If I bought some sisters of the thorn I'd throw a dwellers every round. Worst case I don't roll enough casting die to make an attempt, and throw one away for each test or die spell. Best case, I successfully cast multiple test or die spells a turn.

When fighting Slaan or others with loremastery of warhammer, or loremastery of high magic swapping spells for lores, I expect to be on the receiving end of the same.

Against VC/TK I see a ton of invocations, multiple shot spells, and combat buffs/hexes. I see the occasional curse of years, but mostly nothing that MR applies to.

Edit: Oh yeah. And summons. lets not forget the summons.