How Much Do You pay for HQs?

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**Powerfisting**

So, my brother and I were talking about build specifics for his White Scars and we argued for like an hour about how worth it it would be to promote his captain to a chapter master for the boosted stat line. I was in the camp that the chapter master stat line was totally worth it, but he didn't think so. Anyway, this opened my eyes to how much I pay for HQs. That indestructible bike chapter master costs like 250 points. Abbadon costs 265 points. A bloodthirster with max rewards costs 330 points. Demon Princes run in the 250+ range depending on what you want on them.

So lets start a discussion on how much you spend (points wise) on HQs relative to the points limit. And then, lets take some common points levels (1000, 1500, 1850 etc) and talk about what is appropriate to spend on an HQ versus what will result in diminished returns.

**Jimsolo**

My usual Archon comes in at either 155 or 165 (Shadow Field, Huskblade, Armor of Misery). My standard Haemonculus for a Coven formation (Scissorhand plus Vex mask for Epicurean or Artisan Hemmies) is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 points (no books on hand for exact prices). My allied Farseers are 130 (bike, singing spear, runes of warding).

**SharkoutofWata**

240 for a Flyrant or my Walking Tyrant AND Tyrant Guard. I won't spend more than 160pts on a normal human type HQ though. I prefer them as buffs to units instead of a powerhouse on their own. Farseer on bike in a unit of Reavers. Spiritseer with Wraithguard as a pseudo-Guide power. Archon with Parasite's Kiss to give a squad in a Raider a Ld buff for when the transport takes damage. Librarian with Biomancy in whatever beatstick squad I'm using. Captain Karlean is going to be my most expensive because of his stupid Thunder Hammer, but I'll also have a version at 130pts with a Power Axe and Digital Weapons when my detachment or formations modifies the Blood Angel Reserve rolls.

**Pyeatt**

I typically use Fantasy rules as a guideline.. no more than 25% of my points on HQs. Helps me remember to buy boys instead of toys.

My current main HQ is a Chapter Master on a bike. YES the Chapter Master upgrade is worth it!!! +1A +1W +1 Orbital Bombardment? Any day of the week.
He has Artifice Armor, Bike (Which gives me bikes as troops), Thunder Hammer, and Shield of the Eternal. Nice Smashface package for only 250 Pts.

**koooaei**

114-119 for a Warboss with PK + DLS + 'eavy armor + sometimes BP or 99-104 for DFK over DLS
50-60 for a painboss with 0-2 grot orderlies
70 pt for a wierdboy when i field the 3-d HQ or 2-d detachment.

**Bubbles**

Usually anywhere from 100 to 150 pts for a CCS depending on what I feel like bringing or doing with them. I like how there's a lot of ways you can kit them out, but typically I go for a support role that sits back and gives out orders. For IG I tend to try and keep things cheap wherever I can.

**kingbobbito**

For casual games I like to run two company masters (fluff reasons) with fists, one with plasma pistol attached to command squad, one with foe smiter attached to veterans. So 130-135.

For more serious games I run a librarian, sometimes level 2, either PFG or conversion field, in a command squad. That's 80 pts if I'm playing 500, 130 pts in 1000.

For 1500+ Ezekiel, 145.

**skolirvarden**

Currently on 215, with a bit of wiggle on the extra upgrades-he can come down to ~190.

Running a SM Captain with Gorgons chain, Betrayers Bane, Relic blade, Artificer armour and digital weapons. Not your typical OP Chapter Master for IH, because I don't like the unwieldy penalty, among other things, and this gives me a few different options. Plus fluff.

Same build on a bike/jetpack would also be...interesting, giving some fast AT, but I haven't gone to that extent yet. I'd be reasonably happy paying for that extra upgrade.

Basically, I don't usually take the upgrade to chapter master (40 pts) because while I do like the statline, I feel the points can be better used-Gorgons chain helps make up the difference. Depending on the pts limit, I'd also take the upgrade to CM...would probably take the bike first though.

**sudojoe**

I'm not as worried about the thunder hammer on my CM. a power fist is good enough as grav already does concussive on my targets and I haven't really fought enough things in combat to feel I needed that 5 points of concussive effect on subsequent rounds.

**Ignatius**

I love hero hammer. So usually I give my HQ's all the fun stuff. Generally with my space Marine equivalent armies it's between 200-300, with the daemon prince sometimes reaching into the 350 region. Even my imperial guard get up to 500 points for the command squad and a priest/psyker.

**luky7dayz**

120 for my commander in 750 games. I give him missiles because he's a boss.

113 for my 1000 points games (Turns into buffmander)

Not too sure about 1500 and higher, I would probably take 2 HQs, Etheral and Buffmander (so about 165)

**Wilytank**

My Rune Priest doesn't normally go higher than 110 (or 125 with Frostfury just cuz he's modeled with a stormbolter so why not have fun with it?). My Wolf Lord typically maxes out at 225 with all the fixings.

**Ailaros**

I usually spend a moderate amount.

It is super easy to go way overboard and give a single model (or small squad) way too many upgrades. It is also somewhat easy to make the opposite mistake, though, spending too little.

HQ's tend to do really well when you give them a bit of kit. Especially if it helps them in their support role, but also, there's usually just not a better place in your army for certain upgrades, like relics, power fists, etc.

With HQ's I always get the feeling that if I'm going to take them, I'm going to upgrade them properly. Skimp points from somewhere else.

But, of course, it doesn't mean spending frivolously as well. For my chaos lords, it's a aura, a mark, and a relic or two decent weapon upgrades. For guard, it's a powerfist and special weapons everywhere, with either a chimera or an adviser.

I guess if I had to give a points range, I'd say 110-170 or so.

**Robisagg**

Depends on the build, but I usually like fielding a daemon prince around 350pts, almost always makes his points back

**changerofways**

230 for Ahriman. I'm often tempted to spend another 160 or so on a sorcerer because CSM sorcerers are just so good, but then I'm spending too much for me to justify on just 2 models.

EDIT: I already have model count problems as it is because thousand sons are so expensive. I can't have a pricey HQ section too. What am I left with then? Two squads that cost 1000 points total.

**casvalremdeikun**

My HQs so far are as follows:
Crimson Fists Captain (Artificer Armor+Relic Blade+Storm Bolter) that runs with a Command Squad (Apothecary+4x Combi-Plasma Veterans) in a Rhino or a Razorback so they end up being 330 - 350 pts depending on the transport.
Pedro Kantor and an Honor Guard (Champion with Relic Blade, 4x Power Swords) in a Rhino or Razorback that runs about 365 - 385 pts.
Blood Angels Sanguinary Priest with a Jump Pack is 75 -85 pts, depending on if I give him the Relic Jump Pack. Part of me wants to rip his chainsword off and give him a pistol of some sort.
Blood Angels Chaplain with Jump Pack is 105-115 pts, depending on if I give him the Relic Jump Pack.

I don't think you should be spending more than 25% of your points on an HQ.

**Peregrine**

I treat HQs the same way I treat every other FOC slot: efficient gun upgrades are good, anything else is bad. My most common HQ is 205 points for a LR Vanquisher with lascannon, coax gun and beast hunter shells, but a ~100 point command squad (plus a 170 point Vendetta, which doesn't really count) with 4x melta/plasma is also an option.

**Icculus**

For awhile I was running a Chapter Master with artificer armor, shield eternal and power weapon and that guy was running well over 200 points. But I recently ran just a plain chaplain with an auspex for 95 points and it seemed to work out well.

And I had those extra points to spend on some more toys. So I am beginning to think that if HQs are kept at minimal cost and used for their force multiplying abilities. Like a plain painboss, or a chaplain or something.

**vipoid**

For IG:

- CCS is usually about 90-100pts, not including transport.

- Lord Commissar 125 (This was an attempt to emulate a character. However, IG equipment is stupidly overpriced so he just ends up being badly overcosted.)

- Yarrick 145 (Generally replaces the Lord Commissar and CCS)

DE:

- Basic Haemonculus 85 (Scissorhands and Parasite's Kiss)

- Coven Haemonculus 100+ (Messing around with this guy at the moment. I suspect about 100 will be a good cut-off point, with Scissorhands and the Panacea Perverted or some other cheap artefact. However, I want to try out some other stuff including artefact-combinations, so at the moment I'm willing to go to about 150pts. I don't expect it to last.)

- Urien 140

In both cases, I find myself being somewhat constrained by SCs. With IG, there's very little point building an expensive Lord Commissar when you can get Yarrick for just a little more. Likewise, most of the expensive artefacts for Haemonculi relate to survivability... but in that case you might as well just take Urien - who is more survivable still.

Honestly though, aside from fluff or to test out something, I prefer to keep my HQs cheap. As a general rule, my HQs get only what they really need for their core role. The exception is my Warlord - who is allowed a piece or two of 'extra' stuff to give him a little more character.

I also prefer support HQs to beatsticks, though that could be because neither of the above have any HQs that excel in that regard.

**Boniface**

I tend to try and go cheap or go big. Unless you don't include the supportive bit.
Example of big:
Farsight 165
Crisis body guard team 337 (3x dual fusion, dual plasma, support)

Vulkan 190
Command Squad 210 (Drop pod, 4x flamer, 4x storm shield, apothecary)

Khan 150 (bike)
Command Squad 210-250 (bikes, 4x Gravgun, Apothecary / 4x storm shield)

Example of small (depending on upgrades):
Ethereal 50
Sanguine Priest 60-100
Techmarine 50-100

If I was to build my own it would probably be a bit more.

**IHateNids**

My Necron Overlord runs at 190 - with a Warscythe, 2+, 3++, & a Res Orb for whatever unit I put him in (Usually Lychguard). 205 if I take Mindshackle Scarabs (Which I often do)

My Space Marine Captain runs at 185 - Artificer Armour, Storm Shield, Jump Pack, Relic Blade, Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs. Usually goes with Vanguard Veterans

Librarian runs at 125 or 145, depending on if I take the Mindforge Stave - but he always has Level 2, Terminator Armour & a Storm Shield. Usually Meltabombs as well. Rides with Hammernators in a Crusader

As to the original Chapter Master vs Captain argument, I don't often pay for the upgrade, but I can see exactly why people would

**Paradigm**

Guard, I like to keep it cheap, with just a Power Sword/Carapace Armour Lord Commissar.

SM get anything between a Level 1 Librarian and a Reliced Up Captain costing 200+ (Teeth of Terra, Primarch's Wrath, Armour Indomitus).

My Wolf Lord easily tops the list, though. Wolf Lord with Thunderwolf Mount, The Black Death, Storm Shield, Runic Armour and the Wulfen Stone. 255 points of killing absolutely everything, and I never regret taking him.

**lustigjh**

I tend towards generic HQs and build them up with add-ons (ie, Chaos Lords and Heralds instead of named HQs and greater daemons). If they cost more than 25% of my army, I'm usually not taking them without a fluff justification. I lost too many games because of low army volume so I tend to lean more on strength in numbers.

**ionusx**

i prefer generic hq's over named ones (yes thats right im a dark angels who doesnt use belial, azzy, or sammy and i do reasonably well)
the most ill ever spend on a single hq choice is 160 points. i find that spending 200+ points on an hq choice is sillyyour spending piles of points on one model and when hes dead your at a severe disadvantage.

**vipoid**

ionusx wrote:
i prefer generic hq's over named ones (yes thats right im a dark angels who doesnt use belial, azzy, or sammy and i do reasonably well)

I'm the same, though I will sometimes use SCs because there's frequently no substitute.

And this annoys me tbh - I just hate it when SCs are given stuff that normal characters can never have (better weapons, improved characteristics, special abilities etc.). I kinda wish it was all available to generic HQs (even if a lot of t was relics), and SCs were just specific builds.

ionusx wrote:
the most ill ever spend on a single hq choice is 160 points. i find that spending 200+ points on an hq choice is sillyyour spending piles of points on one model and when hes dead your at a severe disadvantage.

I'm not so sure. I've seen some ~250pt characters do incredibly well - with a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf being right up there. Yeah, he's a big loss if killed, but he's also incredibly hard to kill. T5 4 wounds and a 2+/3+ save - in addition to being incredibly fast and able to mince virtually anything in combat (especially when backed up by a squad).

**DanielBeaver**

I usually run a 170pt bike captain, he can do most of what Chapter Master Smashbane can do, but it frees up 80 points for me to spend on other stuff (which I usually find more valuable).

Most of the killy HQs in the game are well worth their points, I just usually would rather have a more fleshed out army.

**vipoid**

As a question, does anyone use custom characters?

As in, giving them abilities or items that you've made up?

**Overlord Thraka**

I don't really ever spend more than 150 on any of my HQ's. The norm is about 100-130

**jasper76**

vipoid wrote:
As a question, does anyone use custom characters?

As in, giving them abilities or items that you've made up?

I tried this with a CSM army, but I got so much flak for creating new wargear, and swapping rules, it just became to much of a hassle, so I reverted to codex-pure rules. I thought my custom rules were pretty balanced, not over the top (see below), and a couple of my friends didn't mind, but some of them just froze up like I was trying to break the game, so it was a fight just not worth having.

Daemon Prince Gallus Herodicus - 265 poits
Counts as Daemon Prince with Wings, Power Armor, Daemon of Tzeentch, and the Black Mace except as noted below:
Does not have Veterans of the Long War, but rather has the Zealot special rule.
Warlord Trait = Master of Deception

Inquisitor Quintilius Varus - 265 poits
Counts as a Ahriuman except as noted below:
Does not have Veterans of the Long War, but rather has the Zealot special rule.
Replace the Black Staff of Ahriman with the Staff of Silence Distilled:
Range= - / S = +2 / AP = 4 / Type = Melee, Force
The Staff of Silence Distilled: Inquisitor Varus is a Psyker with Mastery Level 4. At the beginning of the Psyker phase, roll a D6. Reference the chart below:
1 - Inquisitor Varus generates no Warp Charges, cannot manifest any Pychic Powers in the Pychic Phase.
2 - Inquisitor Varus generates 2 Warp Charges, but can only manifest Psychic Powers less than or equal 2 Warp Charges
3 - Inquisitor Varus generates 2 Warp Charges,
4 - Inquisitor Varus generates 3 Warp Charges
5 - Inquisitor Varus generates 4 Warp Charges
6 - Inquisitor Varus generates 5 Warp Charges

**Rippy**

I look at it like "will they make their points back in kills". If yes, then it doesn't matter how many points he is!
I run Typhus with Spawn, and in the last few months, he has made his points back and some every game, except for the time I stupidly charged (old) Mephiston, who managed to instant kill him haha.