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Just got myself a cheap squad of 10 Chaos Marines, 5 Terminators and a Sorcerer in Terminator armour from e-Bay and am wondering how I should equip them?

For the termies I'm considering to deep strike them and try take down some infantry/elites in close combat, however, as I only have the DV set other than the models mentioned above I feel I am lacking in the anti-vehicle department.

For the Chaos Marines, should I equip them with bolters or close compat weapons + pistols?

Would you bother using the sorcerer at this level, if so how?

Models I have:

10x Chaos Marines
5x Termies
1x Sorcerer in Termy armour
1x Lord (DV)
6x Chosen (DV)
20x Cultists (DV)
1x Helbute (DV)
1x Aspiring Champion (DV)

Anything you advise me buying ontop of this? I'm thinking 6x Bikers with meltas and a Heldrake. Sorry for so many questions, I haven't played for years so have no idea what to do these days!!!!

Nurgle Bikers and Drakes are some of the best units in the codex. Definitely get those.

I've never used a sorcerer with termies before so I can't help there. I almost always just go with a marked Chaos Lord so I can take Noise Marines, Plague Marines, or Berserkers as troops. If you want Thousand Sons troops you'd use the Sorcerer but they're not a good value for their price IMO. I've been using Termie Lords lately with Sigil for a 2+/2++ with chain fist or lightning claws (depending on if I want my termies going anti tank or infantry). Deep strike is the way to go with them. I once took out a Triarch Stalker and Monolith in two successive turns with suicide termies.

As said above, I tend to opt for Elites instead of regular marines. I can't give much advice for load out there but I think you have to have two cc weapons to get the extra attack (so keep your bolters).

I'd add elite marines to your shopping list (if you don't want to proxy with the marines you have) along with a Las-predator and a rhino or two.

With the models you have in hand now, there's a lot you can do with it.

Take 3 psychic levels on the sorcerer and stick him with the terminators. Loads of ways you can buff the termies, of just use him for assaults.

The cultists may be one of your best assets.

The CSMs - I would give them plasma for AV.

Taking them plus the Helbrute should be around 1000 points.

lustigjh wrote:
Nurgle Bikers and Drakes are some of the best units in the codex. Definitely get those.

I've never used a sorcerer with termies before so I can't help there. I almost always just go with a marked Chaos Lord so I can take Noise Marines, Plague Marines, or Berserkers as troops. If you want Thousand Sons troops you'd use the Sorcerer but they're not a good value for their price IMO. I've been using Termie Lords lately with Sigil for a 2+/2++ with chain fist or lightning claws (depending on if I want my termies going anti tank or infantry). Deep strike is the way to go with them. I once took out a Triarch Stalker and Monolith in two successive turns with suicide termies.

As said above, I tend to opt for Elites instead of regular marines. I can't give much advice for load out there but I think you have to have two cc weapons to get the extra attack (so keep your bolters).

I'd add elite marines to your shopping list (if you don't want to proxy with the marines you have) along with a Las-predator and a rhino or two.

Hey dude, thanks for the response. I might be wrong but I thought pistols doubles up as a cc weapon? i haven't played for a long time so my memory may be failing me.

Yeah, I will be getting some Rhino's at some point but I feel like it's probably too much to spend on transports at 1000pt level. Maybe when I'm pushing 1500 I'll include a couple.

What sorta weapons do you use for termies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
With the models you have in hand now, there's a lot you can do with it.

Take 3 psychic levels on the sorcerer and stick him with the terminators. Loads of ways you can buff the termies, of just use him for assaults.

The cultists may be one of your best assets.

The CSMs - I would give them plasma for AV.

Taking them plus the Helbrute should be around 1000 points.

Cheers - With the rest of the CSMs should I equip bolters or pistol/CC wep?

Will I not be struggling in terms of anti-vehicle do you think? Was wondering if a squad of 3 bikers with Meltas would be better and replace some models elsewhere? Dont have a codex to have to see what this would mean replacing.

I thought pistols counted but my opponent corrected me last game. I brought extra ccw for nothing :( Then again, maybe it's just pistols and not the Sonic Blasters I had.

I'm still new to termies but my load out has been:

Anti-infantry: 2x lightning claws, combi flamers, and a heavy flamer.

Anti-vehicle: Chainfists, combi meltas, and a reaper autocannon.

Anti-hq: 2x power fists, combi flamers, and a heavy flamer.

Some people might opt for combi plasma in the last list but I dislike plasma so I use the flamer instead. You can see that the trend is to combine the best melee weapons for the intended job with the corresponding combi weapons (to hit right out of deep strike or on the charge) and the corresponding heavy weapon.

Exceptions do exist.

Also, your idea for 3 bikers with Melta sounds too risky. I never take min size squads unless I'm filling FOC; the extra bodies are needed to survive enemy fire until you get to their armor.

lustigjh wrote:
I thought pistols counted but my opponent corrected me last game. I brought extra ccw for nothing :( Then again, maybe it's just pistols and not the Sonic Blasters I had.

I'm still new to termies but my load out has been:

Anti-infantry: 2x lightning claws, combi flamers, and a heavy flamer.

Anti-vehicle: Chainfists, combi meltas, and a reaper autocannon.

Anti-hq: 2x power fists, combi flamers, and a heavy flamer.

Some people might opt for combi plasma in the last list but I dislike plasma so I use the flamer instead. You can see that the trend is to combine the best melee weapons for the intended job with the corresponding combi weapons (to hit right out of deep strike or on the charge) and the corresponding heavy weapon.

Exceptions do exist.

Also, your idea for 3 bikers with Melta sounds too risky. I never take min size squads unless I'm filling FOC; the extra bodies are needed to survive enemy fire until you get to their armor.

Guess the bikers may be risky but not sure I could fit 6 into a 1000pt army?

I feel like I am missing anti-vehicle in there somewhere however. My main anti vehicle would be by helbrute but he would have to get close and I feel he may be a target for my opponent in this army. Then cultists and marines won't do much to many vehicles, meaning all that is left is my termies and HQ. Problem is with kitting out the termies as anti vehicle is I feel they are a very high points cost for this role, especially at this points level

Oh right, I didn't even consider the points level. I was thinking about general strategy. At 1000 I think I'd rely on a LasPredator (140 points for bare bones BS4 TL Las cannon + 2 side Las cannons) for anti vehicle. The cannons are 48" S9 AP2 so you can sit away from the shorter range weapons and still do work.

Havocs are versatile if you take missile launchers with flak but are also very expensive and squishy.

I kitted out 6 bikers for 206 points: Mark of nurgle, two meltas, and the champion has a combi melta, bolt pistol, and melta bombs. They are secondary anti-vehicle and also serve to get objectives. With a LasPredator and obligatory Heldrake that leaves 489 points for HQ and troops which shouldn't be bad.

With the above costs, you could throw in naked cultists for 100 pts and spend the rest on Termies + Termie lord and be battle forged or spend the points on elite CSMs and the appropriate HQ to make them troops. You'll need at least one more anti-infantry unit on top of the Heldrake and the rest can go to objective grabbers or even another LasPredator.

Terminators are a bit of a gamble in 1000 points.

Even at their most efficient (3 men, 3 combi meltas 112 points), they're off the table until at least turn 2, maybe until turn 4 when the game has usually already been decided and you're only playing with 89% of the army the other guy has.

By sinking more points into them, then you're now only playing with 75% of the opponents army until they come in. I doubt you'll have much success with starting them on the table, as they can only move 6" a turn, and only have 1 weapon with a range beyond 24" and even then, unless they bring combi plas, they're relying on bolters. If you face a bunch of people with drop pods though, starting on the table can be handy.

If you deep strike them, you looking at a turn 3 to turn 5 charge, minimum. That's just not good enough really for something that is sucking up that many points. If you really must use them like this, then keep the upgrades to a minimum. 1 powerfist and 1 with a pair of Claws. Done. The rest can keep their power weapons. Power axe on the sarge, whatever you like on the others.

The chas marines should only be taking CC weapons if you want to give them mark of khorne and be in CC. Given that you don't have a rhino or a land raider, they're stuck foot slogging across the board, so you probably want to stick with just bolters and pistol for now.

CSM should be 10 men and have a pair of plasma guns.

I ... can't actually see a use for the lord at all. A nurgle lord wants to be on a bike with Fist/Claw, a Khorne Lord wants to be on a juggernaught with the AoBF, a Slaaneshi lord wants to be on a bike or steed, maybe even a jump pack and a Tzeentch lord wants to be in terminator armour for the 2+/4++ is terrible. Not to mention he's only got a power sword IIRC? Now he has to challenge but can't break through 2+ armour. Maybe stick him with the cultist and rush the fearless blob forwards, using them as ablative wounds to deliver the lord into combat with stuff without a 2+ save?

The sorc generally tends to be ~150 points (Sorc, Spell Familiar, ML3, and either sigil or terminator armour). but if you want to DS your sorc in with your termies, now you're looking at having near on 1/3 of your army in reserves, possibly doing nothing until turn 4. While you don't have a Rhino to ferry your marines around in, the sorc would be your best HQ choice as he can chill with the marines since they probably won't be running anywhere and he can protect himself while still casting from turn 1.

The helbrute is OK when taken in large numbers and/or paired with mauler fiends or as part of the helcult formation, but until then, it's simply a target for your opponents anti armour.

Taking a single ground vehicle, even at 1k points is generally not a good move. You'd be much better off with a pair of obliterators for about the same points cost.

Do you have a favoured god? If so, and it's nurgle or Slaanesh, then you can look at getting a unit of plauges or noise marines to use as troops with the appropriate marked HQ.

Do you like helbrutes and maulerfiends? If yes, then maxing out both slots can be highly effective.

You should also be looking to grab a heldrake at some stage and unless going AV12 rush, you'll be wanting to pick up some obliterators as well. A rhino for every squad of marines will also come in very handy, doubly so if you're going mech with the 'Brutes and 'Fiends.

If you feel like you're still lacking anti vehicle, you've got a choice of more suicide termies or raptors with a pair of melta guns and a combi melta. The termies are probably better, but your raptors will be in position turn 2 unless they've gotten shot off the board.

Nurgle bikers can solve many problems as already mentioned. Havoks with autocannons are decent, but Oblits make them look sub par in most circumstances.

Suggested list for 1k utilising the models you have and your next purchases;

150 - Sorceror, ML3, Spell Familiar, Terminator armour

112 - 3x Terminators, 3x Combi meltas

170 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma guns
86 - 19x Cultists

160 - 5x Bikers, Mark of Nurgle, 2x Melta Guns
170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer

76 - Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle
76 - Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle

1000

Feel free to drop 9 cultists for another nurgle biker and giving the biker champ a combi weapon.

It's not perfect, but it should be serviceable.

You can run Jumppack sorc. He'll help with charges a bit and points spent on sigil would not go to waste with termie 5++ invul.

Or go with oblits and footslog across the board if you feel that deepstriking won't fit. Can even go for sanctic and hope for GoI or Vortex.

He's already got a terminator sorceror model though, not really something you can re-model into a JP without more skill than most of us have. Not only that, but he's also got no jump pack troops already, and lots of other things that should be a higher priority to buy before raptors (unless he wants to run nightlords).

If you're running terminator armour, 25 points for a +1 invo in 1000 points is almost criminally wasteful, especially when he's in a reasonable size unit with a unit champ to eat a challenge for him if required so he can either invis or iron arm/force himself next turn.

Advising someone new to the game (well, new'ish since he's returning) to roll sanctic on a CSM sorc is just silly. I will admit, I have done it under desperate circumstances, even suggested it for a very certain list as an option, but neither of those are suitable here. There is absolutely no reason not to suggest he runs either telepathy where you've got an excellent primaris in shriek and the incredibly strong Invis/shrouded or biomancy which has a passable if not good primaris and strong buffs like iron arm, warp speed and endurance along with the incredibly useful enfeeble.

Well here's a challenge....

I would run the cultists + hellbrute as a helcult (see hellbrute dataslate / google)

That leaves us needing 2 troops choices:
Split the marines into:
2x 5 CSM in rhinos with melta + combimelta = ~135 points

Marines without rhinos sucks.

The terminators id give combi plasma and power axes (41 pts each). But you might want to wysiwyg if you are that way home inclined.

The chosen are pretty bad but maybe you can convert them into:
5 chosen in rhino (4 plasma guns)

You can pick up 3 rhinos second hand off ebay quite cheaply o should think.

But you really want to have at least one solidly competent unit. I would recommend either bel'kor or a chaos lord with PF +LC on bike with Mon and 5 nurgle spawn.

Why exactly does a tzeentch Lord suck? You can make a 3++ (rerolling 1s) on a jetbike with eternal warrior and 5-6 x s8 or s4 shred attacks. Pretty good inside some spawn.

dominuschao wrote:
Why exactly does a tzeentch Lord suck? You can make a 3++ (rerolling 1s) on a jetbike with eternal warrior and 5-6 x s8 or s4 shred attacks. Pretty good inside some spawn.

Rerolling 1-s? He's not a daemon - can't get it. So, just +1 attack from disc. And where do you get eternal warrior? I'm only aware of a very pricy BL artifact that confers it. So, you're looking in for 220pt lord minimum. 220 for 3 t4 wounds with 3+ armor.

dominuschao wrote:
Why exactly does a tzeentch Lord suck? You can make a 3++ (rerolling 1s) on a jetbike with eternal warrior and 5-6 x s8 or s4 shred attacks. Pretty good inside some spawn.

One vindicator blast and all your spawn can die, a nurgle lord can ride with T6 spawn. That lord you describe has T4? Not very good for challenges (which hw has to issue). The only non nurgle lord id consider running with spawn is a jugger lord because of the insane amout of AP 2 attacks he puts out at initiative. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that the nurgle/jugger lords probably both cost at least 30 points less than your configuration.

I can see how the tzeentch lord could be good but I think not as good as nurgle/jugger

 koooaei wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Why exactly does a tzeentch Lord suck? You can make a 3++ (rerolling 1s) on a jetbike with eternal warrior and 5-6 x s8 or s4 shred attacks. Pretty good inside some spawn.

Rerolling 1-s? He's not a daemon - can't get it. So, just +1 attack from disc. And where do you get eternal warrior? I'm only aware of a very pricy BL artifact that confers it. So, you're looking in for 220pt lord minimum. 220 for 3 t4 wounds with 3+ armor.

I was referring to the BL supplement.. crucible of lies + skull of kerngar on disc = T4 with 3++ rerolling 1s and eternal warrior. Lets him tank for the spawn against ID shots or LOS the S9 and smaller stuff. Hes pricey at 230 ish from memory but thats comparable to a chapter master of similar.. fortitude. The tzeentch guy will win between the two due to better saves and more attacks + hate turn 1.

The other two more common builds are also very good, I just feel this one is overlooked and does better against the uber ICs and units you want him for.

That pulls him in a cost range of a shield eternal chaptermaster with artificer armor. Which he is not. Sure, you can run this configuration with great sucksess but he's still pretty vulnerable to ROF and getting tarpitted as the damage output vs cheap models ain't amazing.

The thing with chaos lords is that they're quite alike the warbosses. You can make an amazing lord for 130-160 pts and he'll wreck weaker stuff like no tomorrow. Excellent bully. Ofc he won't be able to deal with the opponent's most dedicated mellee units but do you really need it to be done by your lord? And will a 200+ pt lord be able to deal with them?

Hmmm...

Lord, Skull, Crucible, MoT, Claw, Fist, Disk, Sigil is 245.

It's basically smashface with 1 less toughness, 1 less wound and only a 3+/3++, but can re-roll 1's on saves, so it's almost as well protected vs small arms when making saves, but you'll take more saves (which is cancelled out by riding with the majority T5 spawn) and +1 attack. Obviously he's more survivable vs anything you have to take your invo against since you're rerolling 1's.

And he doesn't make bikes or cult units troops. And now you have to take VotLW on any unit that can take it (though you were probably taking cultists anyway).

Trading 1 wound for 2 attacks and 5 less points isn't actually that bad, but I think I'd still rather have a juggerlord.

And the point is the OP was stuck with the DV lord, who isn't on a disk and comes with a power sword, so is a terrible choice by default, though you could easily put him on a disk and give him the spineshiver blade...

I acknowledge that it's a viable option. Maybe that's just me and my orky tactix that i alwayz prefer cheaper and more numerous.
And it's not that hard to put the guy on a disc btw. Way easier and cheaper than a bike or juggerlord (if you don't have appropriate parts in the first place).