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Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Since many of you use KS, I figured this article might be worth a read.

Gil Hamlin was a victim of one such scam artist, when he funded a zombie themed t-shirt based KickStarter. He was disappointed but did not want to give up so easily. Using information discovered about the creator from LinkedIn, he wanted to make the other 91 backers aware that they had the right to serve him legal papers, and the other users thanked him for his work. KickStarter, however, had a different view.
His comment was deleted by moderators and he was sent this message:
“We’re writing because we noticed you posting abusive comments on a project. This kind of activity is against our Guidelines (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/community) and it is not permitted. We take our guidelines very seriously; please take a minute to read through them.
Due to your inability to comply with our guidelines, your privileges to certain features on Kickstarter have been revoked. If you agree to comply with our guidelines going forward, they will be restored.”


http://techraptor.net/content/kickstarter-blocks-account-user-attempts-sue-scam-artist

Good comment by rumcious in the quotes:
There seem to be three issues here;
1) the removal of personal information posted in public.
2) blocking (or not) the pursuit of legal action by private parties concerning something that happened as a result of service use.
3) their obligations to 'failed' projects (in the broadest sense).

Issue "1" is a no-brainer because various 'computer' and/or 'data' misuse laws require the action they took. However, issues "2" and "3" are entirely up for debate, and as Mike hinted at above, the problem with Crowd Funding is that its still a relatively new phenomenon that has kinks that can be taken advantage of - there is as yet no consensus in consumer law about how liable these types of services are to what amounts to 'fraud', certainly in this instance - which speaks to the point you made (it's also worth highlighting that they may not be FDIC protected services).

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Kind of hard to say whether Kickstarter was in the wrong without seeing what was originally posted.

If, as they say, the now deleted message was abusive, then this is a bit of a beat up.

While it sucks that people are out of pocket, if the way they have chosen to deal with the situation breaks Kickstarter's terms of service, then Kickstarter have every right to respond appropriately.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

Kickstarter don't care. I get that the company needs to remove personal information posted on its website.

That said, Kickstarter is making an active decision to ignore fraud.

Why is the big question. I think that it is a mix of fear of liability and desire for revenue. My guess would be that Kickstarter's internal data suggests that campaign volume is better for revenue than campaign quality. In my opinion, we aren't really at a point where large numbers of consumers are declining to use Kickstarter for fear of fraud. We might get there one day, but I don't think we are there yet.

As for liability, I think Kickstarter is taking a hands off approach in order to distance itself from liability. But this may one day backfire as it helps to establish liability through something such as reckless indifference. If Kickstarter has a reasonable basis on which to suspect that a project is fraudulent and fails to take action to stop it, the company could find itself liable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 23:06:59


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Something we agree upon!

Wonder what'll happen if KS finally does take steps to mitigate liability or (gasp) insure backers. IIRC, IndieGoGo is already doing that now. Will KS demand a bigger cut of the funds? Will they vet creators more carefully? If they do the latter, first-time creators will be officially declared greater risks, which means that (wait for it) "established" will have a further advantage on KS.

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

It was done completely wrong, Kickstarter doesn't care nor will it be involved or partially involved in anything that may put them as a liability. If they allowed him to post, then that is saying Kickstarter is backing making project owners accountable and they won't.

Now would he should of done was simply responded back to Kickstarter saying, "I will agree to comply with our guidelines going forward, they will be restored".

Then once that was restored create a Facebook Group, invite the backers to join the Facebook Group. Then use that as the platform to organize the lawsuit. It doesn't violate KS guidelines, you don't have to try to justify what you are doing to them and it is easier to organize that way. You don't have to use Facebook, you could use another medium but Facebook tends to be the easiest route.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





This may lead them to increase their fees to protect themselves and cover any possible liability...not too high I hope

Sadly when you invest in these ideas you should only invest what they can afford to lose just in case.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Having seen other project that have failed where names, potential legal actions etc have been posted such as defiance, torn armour, cairn, the CSM projects etc

(and not removed despite the project creator complaining in some cases)

I suspect there may well have been a reasonable reason why this content was removed



 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Having seen other project that have failed where names, potential legal actions etc have been posted such as defiance, torn armour, cairn, the CSM projects etc

(and not removed despite the project creator complaining in some cases)

I suspect there may well have been a reasonable reason why this content was removed
Yes and no, but without knowing it is hard to compare. Simply put I could talk about legal actions and even bring a real persons name or names into the comments. However if I was to simply post their real info, which not only includes the names but addresses of their work and home... I can pretty much guarantee that would get removed rather quickly. It could have simply just been the creators personal home or work address.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Actual name and work address are legitimate information to post - that is germane to the Kickstarter operation and due diligence.

Kickstarter actually screwed up big time, because now they are becoming active party to the action, rather than a passive observer.

   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Actual name and work address are legitimate information to post - that is germane to the Kickstarter operation and due diligence.
It is legitimate for the creator to post their name and work address, it is however not for a backers to comment on personal information which does include someones name and address. It also doesn't extend to a someone's home address which may or may not be the same as the work address... which is why creators can post that information, but backers can't comment to supply that information. Like I said the best thing would of been to say they'll comply, then organize it off of KS.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

In the case of Defiance (of which I am part of the backers, but for a pitance, really) all the information that was posted on the comments section was publicly available either though the Wyoming Company Registry or Defiance's own website before it went down for a while. Aside from a very few sour notes, the conversation was always agreeable, and the efforts for the lawsuits were organized directly in the comments' section.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
Grovelin' Grot Rigger





East End, Near Witney, UK

Quite sadly - this is one reason I won't be using Kickstarter
(another is the shenanigans with Eliteangerous/offline play.missions - something I was going to actually buy - but now wont....)
Kickstarter need to grow some balls and start managing KS projects, rather than just acting like a portal....

--
Wot no signitcha ?! 
   
 
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