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I realize that this discussion has been hotly debated in the past. Since most of the threads are either somewhat old, and/or locked, I decided to start a new thread with some new information I recently discovered.

While reading through the rulebook earlier, I cam across the following:

In some older codexes, the information for a single unit’s Army List Entry is spread out amongst different sections of the book. Taken together they describe, and are treated for all rules purposes as, a single Army List Entry.

If we take this to mean it includes the information/options listed on page 164 (under The Emperor's Sword (the section that lists point costs and possible upgrades)) [i]and[/]i the information on page 88 (The Adeptus Astartes (the section that provides background information)).

If this is so, then when we combine the two sections, we are informed that if a Veteran upgrades to an Apothecary (page 164) then per page 88, the Apothecary has Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag/Krak Grenades and Netharcium.

Furthermore, to me this means since the codex states what wargear an Apothecary has, and the option to take special weapons is restricted to Veterans, than no matter what order you take options in, the Apothecary can not take a Special Weapon.

Thoughts on this?

Nails it

This isn't a new argument, it's been debated before.

Long story short, you're not replacing a veteran, you're upgrading one, and are furthermore provided explicit instructions on how exactly to do so. No part of those instructions direct you to discard or replace any wargear, so the Apothecary's listed starting equipment is not relevant unless you're somehow buying one directly (as does a Blood Angels Command Squad, for example) instead of upgrading an existing model and following the steps provided.

Creeperman is correct. You're not buying an Apothecary, so starting wargear isn't relevant.

Happyjew,
If the upgraded Apothecaries is now using an entirely different Army List Entry, would that not make him an entirely different Unit to the rest of the squad?

I wouldn't put it past Game Workshop to have tried such a short cut, it isn't the first time we have been informed to 'pinch' another Model from an entirely different Unit. The difference between that situation and this was the 'pinched' Model did not have a profile on the Army List Entry it was being included in, and was in fact a Vehicle going into a Unit of Bikes. This would raise all sorts of questions if the inclusion of additional Rules which made it entirely moot to begin with... by informing us this pinched Model remains a separate Unit.

Put aside the wording in the Codexes (all of them). Lets look at the pictures GW has on the boxes, web site, rule books and codexes. Is there a picture anywhere showing a APOTH with anything other than chainsword, storm bolter or bike (RW command)?? On the other hand Gw does say to 'forge a narrative"......

 jason1977 wrote:
Put aside the wording in the Codexes (all of them). Lets look at the pictures GW has on the boxes, web site, rule books and codexes. Is there a picture anywhere showing a APOTH with anything other than chainsword, storm bolter or bike (RW command)?? On the other hand Gw does say to 'forge a narrative"......

This is bad argument. They most likely didn't want to paint up a model for every possible wargear choice.