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Im winning alot of games with a 5 wave serpent, 2 Knight , + Swooping Hawks list.

Im really trying to figure out how else Eldar can be played, possibly even more effectively. One of the biggest oversights of the codex was the implementation of BS4, which effectively makes all Eldar vehicles 17% more effective. Eldar vehicles didnt see a point increase. Another really big deal about this is that Eldar mass shooting is no longer Guide/Eldrad dependent.

A Squad of War Walkers with Scatter Lasers non Guided had 12 Hits, Guided gave it 18 Hits. (Old Codex)
A Squad of War Walkers with Scatter Lasers non Guided has 16 Hits. (New Codex)

Below are two lists I came up with (I currently have these models). I dont want to change 9 war walkers & 3 Hornets, I am opening to changing everything else. HQ/Troops/Elites/Fast Attack I think there are a TON of Options.

I think its important to note that a standard Mechdar 1850 list will have around 6 Wave Serpents, or around 24 str 6 & 42 str 7 shots for a total of 66'ish medium strength shots.

List #1 (4 Wave Serpents)


List #2 (Upgrades + Rangers Instead of Serpents.

The first list looks quite good.
Not sure if you need the Avatar.
I'd take a Jetseer with guide, prescience, and psychic shriek.

 wuestenfux wrote:
The first list looks quite good.
Not sure if you need the Avatar.
I'd take a Jetseer with guide, prescience, and psychic shriek.

What would you do with the extra points....holo fields, Dragons, and possibly underslung cannons, or maybe even a jetbike squad?

One thing Im worried about is that stuff will break through. Most good armies will be able to overwhelm me for at least a turn with drop pods or DS or outflank or bike movement or beast movement or whatever. My biggest weakness is close melta shooting + especially close combat.

I really feel I need a tarpit for stuff that breaks through that I cant deal with that turn.

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The first list looks quite good.
Not sure if you need the Avatar.
I'd take a Jetseer with guide, prescience, and psychic shriek.

What would you do with the extra points....holo fields, Dragons, and possibly underslung cannons, or maybe even a jetbike squad?

One thing Im worried about is that stuff will break through. Most good armies will be able to overwhelm me for at least a turn with drop pods or DS or outflank or bike movement or beast movement or whatever. My biggest weakness is close melta shooting + especially close combat.

I really feel I need a tarpit for stuff that breaks through that I cant deal with that turn.

I know what you're talking about.
Therefore, I usually run 10 men units in Serpents, DA or Guardians.
With pseudo rending, they are quite capable to whittle down advancing infantry.
Pods are a serious threat. Cover, jink, holofield, castling up is all you can do to survive the fist wave with minimal damage.
Out flankers can hardly reach you when moving through the centre.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The first list looks quite good.
Not sure if you need the Avatar.
I'd take a Jetseer with guide, prescience, and psychic shriek.

What would you do with the extra points....holo fields, Dragons, and possibly underslung cannons, or maybe even a jetbike squad?

One thing Im worried about is that stuff will break through. Most good armies will be able to overwhelm me for at least a turn with drop pods or DS or outflank or bike movement or beast movement or whatever. My biggest weakness is close melta shooting + especially close combat.

I really feel I need a tarpit for stuff that breaks through that I cant deal with that turn.

I know what you're talking about.
Therefore, I usually run 10 men units in Serpents, DA or Guardians.
With pseudo rending, they are quite capable to whittle down advancing infantry.
Pods are a serious threat. Cover, jink, holofield, castling up is all you can do to survive the fist wave with minimal damage.
Out flankers can hardly reach you when moving through the centre.

If I get a drop pod army I would seriously consider some sort of null deployment.

Do NOT go the way of List #2. Static lists are dinosaurs. Yeah, you may beat the average joe. You may even beat a good player, but you won't be able to beat a top player running a top-tier tournament list with that. They will eat it alive.

List #1 is much better. Mobility really is the strength of Eldar, which is why serpent-spam has been so successful in tournament play (as well as normal play). However, what's the deal with the slow Avatar in the list? The rest of the list is quite fast, but the Avatar IMO kind of takes away some of the flexibility of the list. Moreover, an Avatar unbuffed by psychic powers is either giving your opponent a handicap because he is always hiding or he is an easy kill and Slay the Warlord. I can see the place of the Avatar in a footdar list, but not in this type of list.

My recommendation is to swap him out. BTW, the best armies in the game aren't assault armies. They're shooty armies or a hybrid of shooting/counter-assault armies.

Of course it is perfectly fine to run him because you like the model/unit, but just understand that I don't think List #1 is optimized with him in it (he's a better fit for List #2).

 jy2 wrote:
Do NOT go the way of List #2. Static lists are dinosaurs. Yeah, you may beat the average joe. You may even beat a good player, but you won't be able to beat a top player running a top-tier tournament list with that. They will eat it alive.

List #1 is much better. Mobility really is the strength of Eldar, which is why serpent-spam has been so successful in tournament play (as well as normal play). However, what's the deal with the slow Avatar in the list? The rest of the list is quite fast, but the Avatar IMO kind of takes away some of the flexibility of the list. Moreover, an Avatar unbuffed by psychic powers is either giving your opponent a handicap because he is always hiding or he is an easy kill and Slay the Warlord. I can see the place of the Avatar in a footdar list, but not in this type of list.

My recommendation is to swap him out. BTW, the best armies in the game aren't assault armies. They're shooty armies or a hybrid of shooting/counter-assault armies.

Of course it is perfectly fine to run him because you like the model/unit, but just understand that I don't think List #1 is optimized with him in it (he's a better fit for List #2).

Main thought was the ability to tarpit squads of bikes or squads from drop pods or dreds or Flying MC's that go to Hover. Like lets say I have 3 squads that can assault me/melta me next turn. If I can kill two of them with shooting the Avatar can take the third. War Walkers are fairly slow, and once they get pushed back into the corner I need something to serve as a barrier so I can another turn of shooting.

What HQ do you think would fit the list ?

How do you think this would do in larger tournies? Do you think the AV10 spam could take enough damage and remain effective, or do you think its too easy to take out AV10? How do you think it will deal against Knights...or multiple knights?

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Do NOT go the way of List #2. Static lists are dinosaurs. Yeah, you may beat the average joe. You may even beat a good player, but you won't be able to beat a top player running a top-tier tournament list with that. They will eat it alive.

List #1 is much better. Mobility really is the strength of Eldar, which is why serpent-spam has been so successful in tournament play (as well as normal play). However, what's the deal with the slow Avatar in the list? The rest of the list is quite fast, but the Avatar IMO kind of takes away some of the flexibility of the list. Moreover, an Avatar unbuffed by psychic powers is either giving your opponent a handicap because he is always hiding or he is an easy kill and Slay the Warlord. I can see the place of the Avatar in a footdar list, but not in this type of list.

My recommendation is to swap him out. BTW, the best armies in the game aren't assault armies. They're shooty armies or a hybrid of shooting/counter-assault armies.

Of course it is perfectly fine to run him because you like the model/unit, but just understand that I don't think List #1 is optimized with him in it (he's a better fit for List #2).

Main thought was the ability to tarpit squads of bikes or squads from drop pods or dreds or Flying MC's that go to Hover. Like lets say I have 3 squads that can assault me/melta me next turn. If I can kill two of them with shooting the Avatar can take the third. War Walkers are fairly slow, and once they get pushed back into the corner I need something to serve as a barrier so I can another turn of shooting.

What HQ do you think would fit the list ?

How do you think this would do in larger tournies? Do you think the AV10 spam could take enough damage and remain effective, or do you think its too easy to take out AV10? How do you think it will deal against Knights...or multiple knights?

Tarpitting marines is not a good strategy because:

1. Most marine biker armies - White Scars and Ravenwing - have Hit-&-Run. You can't tarpit them.

2. Vs drop pods. If you are "tarpitting" them, then you are playing their game (generally speaking). What drop pod marines want you to do is to waste your time dealing with them in your own deployment zone, because by the time you kill them all, you're stuck in your deployment zone with little ways to get to the other drop pods on the other objectives. Yeah, you may have the 1 objective in your deployment zone, but the marine player has the other 3-4 objectives guarded by ObSec units that can easily shoot down contesting jetbikes.

3. Vs flyers. Tyranid flyers tend to stay in the air until Turn 5 when its time for them to land. No assault there. FMC daemons are more likely to land, though they may summon a unit of troops to tie up the Avatar before doing so.

Warwalkers are slow, but the flexibility to outflank gives them some mobility. Just make sure you put objectives near the board edges and not in the middle (that is, if you are intending to grab objectives with your walkers). BTW, Battle Focus with them and they can actually cover some ground. If I were to start them on the table, however, I'd probably put them on the flanks anyways. So what if the opponent goes after one? At least he won't be able to trap both of them unless he splits up his assault units, which then makes it easier for you to deal with 1 flank at a time.

Personally, I would go with a Mantleseer. He works really well with mechdar, especially if you get the Shrouding power. Or, if you want, you could use him to summon daemons.

I've also seen a lot of tournament players take just a very cheap, bare-bones Autarch so that they can use the points on other stuff in the army (i.e. swooping hawks, warp spiders, fire dragons, whatever).

Walkers can and are still effective. That is because you can play the denial game with them. Either deploy them on the table if you are going 1st for the alpha-strike (and hopefully battle focus them back behind BLOS terrain if there is some) or outflank them for the beta-strike. Either ways, it's going to make it harder for the opponent to deal with. Moreover, they're going to have to worry about the hornets and wave serpents as well (but the pathfinders, not really).

Against knights, either focus on 1 knight at a time and play the keep-away game or just ignore them and kill off the rest of the army.

 jy2 wrote:

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Do NOT go the way of List #2. Static lists are dinosaurs. Yeah, you may beat the average joe. You may even beat a good player, but you won't be able to beat a top player running a top-tier tournament list with that. They will eat it alive.

List #1 is much better. Mobility really is the strength of Eldar, which is why serpent-spam has been so successful in tournament play (as well as normal play). However, what's the deal with the slow Avatar in the list? The rest of the list is quite fast, but the Avatar IMO kind of takes away some of the flexibility of the list. Moreover, an Avatar unbuffed by psychic powers is either giving your opponent a handicap because he is always hiding or he is an easy kill and Slay the Warlord. I can see the place of the Avatar in a footdar list, but not in this type of list.

My recommendation is to swap him out. BTW, the best armies in the game aren't assault armies. They're shooty armies or a hybrid of shooting/counter-assault armies.

Of course it is perfectly fine to run him because you like the model/unit, but just understand that I don't think List #1 is optimized with him in it (he's a better fit for List #2).

Main thought was the ability to tarpit squads of bikes or squads from drop pods or dreds or Flying MC's that go to Hover. Like lets say I have 3 squads that can assault me/melta me next turn. If I can kill two of them with shooting the Avatar can take the third. War Walkers are fairly slow, and once they get pushed back into the corner I need something to serve as a barrier so I can another turn of shooting.

What HQ do you think would fit the list ?

How do you think this would do in larger tournies? Do you think the AV10 spam could take enough damage and remain effective, or do you think its too easy to take out AV10? How do you think it will deal against Knights...or multiple knights?

Tarpitting marines is not a good strategy because:

1. Most marine biker armies - White Scars and Ravenwing - have Hit-&-Run. You can't tarpit them.

2. Vs drop pods. If you are "tarpitting" them, then you are playing their game (generally speaking). What drop pod marines want you to do is to waste your time dealing with them in your own deployment zone, because by the time you kill them all, you're stuck in your deployment zone with little ways to get to the other drop pods on the other objectives. Yeah, you may have the 1 objective in your deployment zone, but the marine player has the other 3-4 objectives guarded by ObSec units that can easily shoot down contesting jetbikes.

3. Vs flyers. Tyranid flyers tend to stay in the air until Turn 5 when its time for them to land. No assault there. FMC daemons are more likely to land, though they may summon a unit of troops to tie up the Avatar before doing so.

Warwalkers are slow, but the flexibility to outflank gives them some mobility. Just make sure you put objectives near the board edges and not in the middle (that is, if you are intending to grab objectives with your walkers). BTW, Battle Focus with them and they can actually cover some ground. If I were to start them on the table, however, I'd probably put them on the flanks anyways. So what if the opponent goes after one? At least he won't be able to trap both of them unless he splits up his assault units, which then makes it easier for you to deal with 1 flank at a time.

Personally, I would go with a Mantleseer. He works really well with mechdar, especially if you get the Shrouding power. Or, if you want, you could use him to summon daemons.

I've also seen a lot of tournament players take just a very cheap, bare-bones Autarch so that they can use the points on other stuff in the army (i.e. swooping hawks, warp spiders, fire dragons, whatever).

Walkers can and are still effective. That is because you can play the denial game with them. Either deploy them on the table if you are going 1st for the alpha-strike (and hopefully battle focus them back behind BLOS terrain if there is some) or outflank them for the beta-strike. Either ways, it's going to make it harder for the opponent to deal with. Moreover, they're going to have to worry about the hornets and wave serpents as well (but the pathfinders, not really).

Against knights, either focus on 1 knight at a time and play the keep-away game or just ignore them and kill off the rest of the army.

Hopefully with a drop pod army I could just kill everything by turn 4 or 5. I should be killing 20-30 marines a turn so unless they do damage to me I win. Like either they lower my outgoing shots, or they loose because I kill everything. I just need to find ways to mitigate my damage. Battle Focusing behind BLOS & outflanking are both ways of doing that.

Do you see this as being GT Viable? What worst case scenarios do you see for the list?

I think AV13/AV14 Spam would be difficult. Drop Pods would be difficult if they play it aggressively and I dont reserve. Tau could possibly be difficult.

List #1 is definitely GT-viable. It's got all the tools to succeed.

Mechdar actually matches up better against drop pod marines than a lot of the other armies do. That is because they've got the resiliency to survive a drop pod alpha-strike and the mobility to then get the heck out of the way. Just don't get trapped by marines, because kracks to the ass of serpents hurts. Lol.

Problem matchups for Eldar include Necrons, Tau, flyrant-spam Tyranids, other mechdar armies and, believe it or not, Space Marine scout-spam (like the army that Reece runs).

 jy2 wrote:
List #1 is definitely GT-viable. It's got all the tools to succeed.

Mechdar actually matches up better against drop pod marines than a lot of the other armies do. That is because they've got the resiliency to survive a drop pod alpha-strike and the mobility to then get the heck out of the way. Just don't get trapped by marines, because kracks to the ass of serpents hurts. Lol.

Problem matchups for Eldar include Necrons, Tau, flyrant-spam Tyranids, other mechdar armies and, believe it or not, Space Marine scout-spam (like the army that Reece runs).

Lol I hadnt heard about scout spam...is there a link to a batrep or article about it?

Tau shouldn't be a big problem.
Just shoot down the marker lights in turn one using the Serpent shields.
Then the Serpents should rule.
Outflanking Warwalkers is usually the way to go.
But you have three squadrons and this is a bit much.

This list is also borderline idiot proof now. You cant assault on turn one after scouting, and you cant assault from outflank.

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List #1 is definitely GT-viable. It's got all the tools to succeed.

Mechdar actually matches up better against drop pod marines than a lot of the other armies do. That is because they've got the resiliency to survive a drop pod alpha-strike and the mobility to then get the heck out of the way. Just don't get trapped by marines, because kracks to the ass of serpents hurts. Lol.

Problem matchups for Eldar include Necrons, Tau, flyrant-spam Tyranids, other mechdar armies and, believe it or not, Space Marine scout-spam (like the army that Reece runs).

Lol I hadnt heard about scout spam...is there a link to a batrep or article about it?

Not recently. Reece did talk about his army in his blog (frontlinegaming.org), but I think his list has been constantly evolving. In any case, I played against it once with my competitive Wraithwing Necrons back in 6th and he actually beat my necrons.

Recently, his Scout list runs Issadon (a FW character) and he's thrown in a unit of Centurions with them as well as a Sicarian.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Tau shouldn't be a big problem.
Just shoot down the marker lights in turn one using the Serpent shields.
Then the Serpents should rule.
Outflanking Warwalkers is usually the way to go.
But you have three squadrons and this is a bit much.

It depends.

If the Tau player is running the Firebase Cadre formation (1 riptide + 2x3 broadsides, all with Tank Hunter) and is going 1st, it could very well be a rough game for Eldar. And if you reserve your units (i.e. outflanking walkers), almost all the guys has Interceptor.

For example, one of my friends runs this list:

Buffmander - 2+, T5, Drone controller, twin-links a unit
Shadowsun

Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor
Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor

Fire Warriors - Devilfish
Fire Warriors - Devilfish

8-9 Marker Drones (Buffmander goes here)

Tau Firebase Cadre (all with Tankhunter):

Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor

3x Missile-sides - Interceptor (broadsides with HYMP)
3x Missile-sides - Interceptor

This type of list is bad news for mechdar especially if the Tau player is going 1st. It can reliably take down 2 wave serpents a turn or 1 wraithknight.

 jy2 wrote:

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
List #1 is definitely GT-viable. It's got all the tools to succeed.

Mechdar actually matches up better against drop pod marines than a lot of the other armies do. That is because they've got the resiliency to survive a drop pod alpha-strike and the mobility to then get the heck out of the way. Just don't get trapped by marines, because kracks to the ass of serpents hurts. Lol.

Problem matchups for Eldar include Necrons, Tau, flyrant-spam Tyranids, other mechdar armies and, believe it or not, Space Marine scout-spam (like the army that Reece runs).

Lol I hadnt heard about scout spam...is there a link to a batrep or article about it?

Not recently. Reece did talk about his army in his blog (frontlinegaming.org), but I think his list has been constantly evolving. In any case, I played against it once with my competitive Wraithwing Necrons back in 6th and he actually beat my necrons.

Recently, his Scout list runs Issadon (a FW character) and he's thrown in a unit of Centurions with them as well as a Sicarian.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Tau shouldn't be a big problem.
Just shoot down the marker lights in turn one using the Serpent shields.
Then the Serpents should rule.
Outflanking Warwalkers is usually the way to go.
But you have three squadrons and this is a bit much.

It depends.

If the Tau player is running the Firebase Cadre formation (1 riptide + 2x3 broadsides, all with Tank Hunter) and is going 1st, it could very well be a rough game for Eldar. And if you reserve your units (i.e. outflanking walkers), almost all the guys has Interceptor.

For example, one of my friends runs this list:

Buffmander - 2+, T5, Drone controller, twin-links a unit
Shadowsun

Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor
Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor

Fire Warriors - Devilfish
Fire Warriors - Devilfish

8-9 Marker Drones (Buffmander goes here)

Tau Firebase Cadre (all with Tankhunter):

Riptide - Ion, Fusion, Interceptor

3x Missile-sides - Interceptor (broadsides with HYMP)
3x Missile-sides - Interceptor

This type of list is bad news for mechdar especially if the Tau player is going 1st. It can reliably take down 2 wave serpents a turn or 1 wraithknight.

If the Tau player deploys first, you might be able to LOS/Range some of his army that might have been poorly deployed.

Jink Saves + War Walker Saves would probably need to be above average. If you roll 5-6 War Walker Invlus in a row I think the game changes. Basically like getting lucky with flickerfields.

Well, shadowsun can infiltrate 1 unit of broadsides so you can never completely hide from them. And if he gets Master of Ambush, forget about it. I hate a tau army with MoA and going 1st as well. So hard to play against that.

However, if Mechdar is going 1st, then they have a chance, though a T6 5W 2+ MC is really hard to take out with normal shooting.

Jy2, good points as always.

Well, I think three squadrons of Warwalkers is too much.
I usually run two both with dual scatterlasers and usually leave one or both in reserve depending on enemy, deployment, and terrain.
I'd drop the third one for another Serpent.

How does shadowsun infiltrate a unit, pretty sure he cant accoring to the rules

KillswitchUK wrote:
How does shadowsun infiltrate a unit, pretty sure he cant accoring to the rules

Sorry, I was assuming the BAO format, which allows a character with the Infiltrate rule to infiltrate a unit along with it.

I haven't checked if any of the other, larger US tournament FAQ's also included this "change".

 wuestenfux wrote:

Jy2, good points as always.

Well, I think three squadrons of Warwalkers is too much.
I usually run two both with dual scatterlasers and usually leave one or both in reserve depending on enemy, deployment, and terrain.
I'd drop the third one for another Serpent.

With this army Im probably not going to Outflank. I also think 24 shots and 6 hull points makes more sense than 7 shots and 3 hull points, just due to the overwhelming amount of stuff there is to shoot at.

My goal is to either shoot the army off the board, or loose.

If this doesnt work in 7th Ill transition to my jetseer council or just play standard mechdar.

Believe or not Night spinners cover most of the problems/armies that Eldar have trouble with. The S7/8 Ap6/1 blast/flamer is really good against Suits, Sides, Bikes, Wraiths and deep strikers. Although if youre feeling exotic, Warphunters are even better.

The Autarch for the HQ choice helps with reserve rolls, which is important if you've not got 1st turn. Also your opponent has to work just that bit extra for STW. As for the Summoning Seer, dont give him the Mantle, stick him with a Shadow weaver for a T7 Farseer.

On a general note and despite what everyone on the internet might say, Eldar have to actually be played, they're not a point and click army. I mean for example say your facing off against Ad-lance, they only way youre gonna win is if you Turbo boost up, so you get as many side shots as possible and use tricks like battle focus on your firedragons to change armour facings etc.



If you really want to know how Eldar work at tournament level, Allies of Convenience do some good podcats. Even Jesse Newton pops up from time to time.

 iddy00711 wrote:
Believe or not Night spinners cover most of the problems/armies that Eldar have trouble with. The S7/8 Ap6/1 blast/flamer is really good against Suits, Sides, Bikes, Wraiths and deep strikers. Although if youre feeling exotic, Warphunters are even better.

The Autarch for the HQ choice helps with reserve rolls, which is important if you've not got 1st turn. Also your opponent has to work just that bit extra for STW. As for the Summoning Seer, dont give him the Mantle, stick him with a Shadow weaver for a T7 Farseer.

On a general note and despite what everyone on the internet might say, Eldar have to actually be played, they're not a point and click army. I mean for example say your facing off against Ad-lance, they only way youre gonna win is if you Turbo boost up, so you get as many side shots as possible and use tricks like battle focus on your firedragons to change armour facings etc.



If you really want to know how Eldar work at tournament level, Allies of Convenience do some good podcats. Even Jesse Newton pops up from time to time.

I've been winning GT's as Eldar for many years now....not sure why you think im a noobtard.

Do the Math on a Warp Hunter/Night Spinner and see that a 24 shot WW Squad causes more wounds against MEQ & Hoard armies. Warp Hunters imo are over priced, doesnt make sense to myself to build a list around them. Would rather just bring a Fire Prism that can do everything for less.

I would also disagree, I think Eldar unless ur playing a deathstar is a point and click army. Most armies in 40k really arn't that difficult to play, most shooting armies like guard/tau/Eldar are really just pointing and clicking, calling it more than that is trying to glorify your strategy as difficult when in reality it isnt. The preparation and choosing how to position and what to shoot at is the difficult part.

 Smitty0305 wrote:

 iddy00711 wrote:
Believe or not Night spinners cover most of the problems/armies that Eldar have trouble with. The S7/8 Ap6/1 blast/flamer is really good against Suits, Sides, Bikes, Wraiths and deep strikers. Although if youre feeling exotic, Warphunters are even better.

The Autarch for the HQ choice helps with reserve rolls, which is important if you've not got 1st turn. Also your opponent has to work just that bit extra for STW. As for the Summoning Seer, dont give him the Mantle, stick him with a Shadow weaver for a T7 Farseer.

On a general note and despite what everyone on the internet might say, Eldar have to actually be played, they're not a point and click army. I mean for example say your facing off against Ad-lance, they only way youre gonna win is if you Turbo boost up, so you get as many side shots as possible and use tricks like battle focus on your firedragons to change armour facings etc.



If you really want to know how Eldar work at tournament level, Allies of Convenience do some good podcats. Even Jesse Newton pops up from time to time.

I've been winning GT's as Eldar for many years now....not sure why you think im a noobtard.

Do the Math on a Warp Hunter/Night Spinner and see that a 24 shot WW Squad causes more wounds against MEQ & Hoard armies. Warp Hunters imo are over priced, doesnt make sense to myself to build a list around them. Would rather just bring a Fire Prism that can do everything for less.

I would also disagree, I think Eldar unless ur playing a deathstar is a point and click army. Most armies in 40k really arn't that difficult to play, most shooting armies like guard/tau/Eldar are really just pointing and clicking, calling it more than that is trying to glorify your strategy as difficult when in reality it isnt. The preparation and choosing how to position and what to shoot at is the difficult part.

Indeed, moving and positioning the skimmers and a correct target priority schedule are key.

The last Eldar win at a GT was in September, by Tony Kopach, who put 2 night spinners in his list. Since then you've had the 11th Company/ feast of blades and in the UK we've had the UK GT heat 3/ UK ETC team tournament. Non of the winning armies in those GTs had wave serpents. or even Eldar.

I'm not saying War Walkers are bad, but they die easily and fire prisms dont do anything if your opponent has cover.
And not every game will be tactical, but lists that yield anti-serpent elements (which is most of them) require you to use your head.

List 1 is superior.

With a (potentially) reserves-heavy list, there is only one HQ to give serious consideration--the Autarch. You can put him on a bike with a mantle/fusion gun/laser lance or you can put him in a serpent with nothing (or give him a fusion gun and stick him with the dragons). Things should come in when you want/need them to.

With the points saved, I'd recommend Shuriken Cannons for the serpents.

 iddy00711 wrote:
The last Eldar win at a GT was in September, by Tony Kopach, who put 2 night spinners in his list. Since then you've had the 11th Company/ feast of blades and in the UK we've had the UK GT heat 3/ UK ETC team tournament. Non of the winning armies in those GTs had wave serpents. or even Eldar.

I'm not saying War Walkers are bad, but they die easily and fire prisms dont do anything if your opponent has cover.
And not every game will be tactical, but lists that yield anti-serpent elements (which is most of them) require you to use your head.

Using cover, using your range, positioning your rear armor correctly and periodically moving 12-30" to get objectives or move away from stuff I think is more common sense than using your head. I just personally dont think Mech Eldar is that difficult to play, and Ive played more than 100 games. Maybe after so much repetition I just dont think its hard anymore.


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DCannon4Life wrote:
List 1 is superior.

With a (potentially) reserves-heavy list, there is only one HQ to give serious consideration--the Autarch. You can put him on a bike with a mantle/fusion gun/laser lance or you can put him in a serpent with nothing (or give him a fusion gun and stick him with the dragons). Things should come in when you want/need them to.

With the points saved, I'd recommend Shuriken Cannons for the serpents.

Hey thanks for the feedback I appreciate it. If you want to chat more on FB or Skype give me a pm.

So for 145 points I get reserve rolls, A Jetbike HQ that can re roll 2+ Cover Saves, with 4 power attacks on the charge, Hit and Run, and a Fusion Gun. I also get to add another Fire Dragon, and 3 Cannons or 9 str6 Shots. Very cool unit, gives me another threat option for objectives.

My only thought is if he will be able to fill the role that I need , to Tarpit units that get into close combat threat range. I see the Avatar tarpitting and even killing units that come out of Drop Pods or that DS or beast squads that move quickly.

Thanks for the invitation--I'll shoot you a pm.

I think Jy2 has it right: Don't think 'tarpit', think 'mobility' instead. If you're not willing to commit fully to the idea of mobility, then I'm not sure you'll ever enjoy the full benefits. Everything needs to be able to move, so points spent on something that doesn't fit that basic profile are wasted (well, spent inefficiently anyway).

As for the Autarch, he keeps his shuriken pistol, so gets +1 for two CC weapons and then another +1 on the charge. So: 5 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge. Also consider that these are at initiative since he has plasma grenades.

DCannon4Life wrote:
Thanks for the invitation--I'll shoot you a pm.

I think Jy2 has it right: Don't think 'tarpit', think 'mobility' instead. If you're not willing to commit fully to the idea of mobility, then I'm not sure you'll ever enjoy the full benefits. Everything needs to be able to move, so points spent on something that doesn't fit that basic profile are wasted (well, spent inefficiently anyway).

As for the Autarch, he keeps his shuriken pistol, so gets +1 for two CC weapons and then another +1 on the charge. So: 5 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge. Also consider that these are at initiative since he has plasma grenades.

Heres where playtesting comes in.

How do you think the list with an Autarch will do in a GT Format?

I did all right with a similar(ish) list at the Renegade Open, going 2-1 on day 1, making the top 16, then losing to a Screamerstar (that eventually took third). In the RTT the next day, I went 3-0.

https://tinyplasticaliens.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/2014-renegade-open-day-1-condensed-battle-reports/

Matchups + missions (which matchup you get when you are playing what mission) is as important as ever. Some things are easier to beat than others.

I don't play the Mantle Autarch anymore, ever. There's too much Ignores Cover where I play and a single S8 shot doubles him out. So, I give him a Fusion Gun and stick him with the Fire Dragons.

DCannon4Life wrote:
I did all right with a similar(ish) list at the Renegade Open, going 2-1 on day 1, making the top 16, then losing to a Screamerstar (that eventually took third). In the RTT the next day, I went 3-0.

https://tinyplasticaliens.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/2014-renegade-open-day-1-condensed-battle-reports/

Matchups + missions (which matchup you get when you are playing what mission) is as important as ever. Some things are easier to beat than others.

I don't play the Mantle Autarch anymore, ever. There's too much Ignores Cover where I play and a single S8 shot doubles him out. So, I give him a Fusion Gun and stick him with the Fire Dragons.

List isnt really similar , but I still like it.

The WWP is for the Fire Dragons?