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So I was reading the story about the war on kvarian(think that's go it's spelled) alpha. The one where the tau and wolves fought on the bottom of the ocean. I was wondering how the wolves won? They were walking along the ocan floor, we're as the tau were jetting around. How could the puppies have actually won?

Dogs are better at swimming than Cows maybe ?

Iirc the Wolves brought Land Raiders and other heavies with them no?
Most Astartes armor can fight under water (naturally or with modifications) so the Tau faced more than footsloggers.

 Ratius wrote:
Iirc the Wolves brought Land Raiders and other heavies with them no?
Most Astartes armor can fight under water (naturally or with modifications) so the Tau faced more than footsloggers.

Well I'd imagine these footsloggers would move at an incredibly slow pace, as would the vehicles

could the underwater nature of the battlefield have interfered with the Tau's equipment more? we know the IoM's tech is rediculasly resilant, perhaps the Tau's is less so? also, how well does Tau weaponry work under water? one would think energy weapons would have issues in that enviroment. while Bolt shells are actually, by their design, pretty well adapted to fight in said enviroment. one of the biiiig advantages SMs have in the background lore is their remarkable ability to operate without any problems in enviroments that would seriously impede another army.

The Tau are from a world of grasslands and mountains. The idea of having to actually wage war underwater probably did not occur to them.

I can see that they just wouldn't have the experience with such a thing to be able to combat them very well underwater. But then again underwater isn't so different than space, and I"m sure they have experience doing that.

Considering how strong power armor is, i'd assume the reason they won is because the water pressure had a fairly negligible affect.

- And if it would have a strong affect, it undoubtedly would have a a major impact on the underwater jet ability of the Tau.

 Remulus wrote:
Considering how strong power armor is, i'd assume the reason they won is because the water pressure had a fairly negligible affect.

- And if it would have a strong affect, it undoubtedly would have a a major impact on the underwater jet ability of the Tau.

Keep in mind though, would Tau not have special wargear for such an engagement?

Or do they use standard issue gear? Firewarriors do infact use environmentally sealed suits so they would. Would things like Smart Missile Systems have difficulty because of how light travels through water? Same with Marker lights? Stealth suits might not work the way they do on land either. But im sure a lot of wargear is swapped out for more capable stuff as well. But then again, underwater probably isn't that common.

In any event Tau some equipment may not cope well.

NauticalKendall wrote:

 Remulus wrote:
Considering how strong power armor is, i'd assume the reason they won is because the water pressure had a fairly negligible affect.

- And if it would have a strong affect, it undoubtedly would have a a major impact on the underwater jet ability of the Tau.

Keep in mind though, would Tau not have special wargear for such an engagement?

Or do they use standard issue gear? Firewarriors do infact use environmentally sealed suits so they would. Would things like Smart Missile Systems have difficulty because of how light travels through water? Same with Marker lights? Stealth suits might not work the way they do on land either. But im sure a lot of wargear is swapped out for more capable stuff as well. But then again, underwater probably isn't that common.

In any event Tau some equipment may not cope well.

I believe both sides adapted for the fight in terms of gear, but I know the marines and their vehicles just went along the ocean floor

Maybe all the bright lights on the Tau's suits attracted too many fish and blinded them while the Space wolves took advantage

Plot armor.

If some GW writer sent all the Space Wolves into the Eye of Terror, it'd end with Leman Russ and Logan Grimnar toasting each other using the skulls of Khorne and Tzeentch as cups.

I believe the reason is because that story is in the SM codex. For a more fluffy reason I think it's just that they didn't expect an attack like that underwater. I mean who plans for people to just walk up to your underwater base.

You could also muse about how well tau equipment works underwater. I mean it's pressurized, but that doesn't mean something like a ion cannon is just as effective in water as in air. (Water dissipates heat differently after all.)

IIRC the tiny little blurb about the underwater action mentioned crisis suits modified for aquatic warfare..and missile systems modified into torpedoes launchers..but yeah it was just a little flavor text morsel in a" how cool are we" section..but did inspire some custom conversions.

nomotog wrote:
I believe the reason is because that story is in the SM codex. For a more fluffy reason I think it's just that they didn't expect an attack like that underwater. I mean who plans for people to just walk up to your underwater base.

You could also muse about how well tau equipment works underwater. I mean it's pressurized, but that doesn't mean something like a ion cannon is just as effective in water as in air. (Water dissipates heat differently after all.)

The same could be said about Lascanons and Plasma rifles(Tau and Imperium) Rail Guns would still be highly affective as the velocity is simply ridiculous but at the ranges Tau like to use them they would be pretty hindered by the water in the way.

I think Tau equipment and operational expertise just doesn't suit that style of warfare without using a lot of expensive modifications.

In water explosions are more powerful so even a bolt round, wislt small would be magnified by a certain factor.

a Land raider is fully sealed and in theory can function in environments even with no air for a sustained period, they had Terminator armour and everyone knows in fluff its pretty dang tough,

despite being underwater the space Wolves would be a tough force to fight.

It could simply be that ALL of the ranged weaponry, Tau and Astartes, was inhibited to some degree by being underwater. The Wolves are perfectly happy to stroll up and tear you apart if they can't shoot you, but that would be discomfiting for the Tau in the extreme. Simply removing or minimizing the ranged aspect of warfare tilts the battle sharply to the favor of the Wolves.

Well in the old planestrike it went into more detail about the battle. It said as follows:

"The Space Wolves of the Adeptus Astartes bring war to the waterlogged Tau world of Kvarium Alpha, their Drop Pods plunging deep into the oceans before disgorging their Space Marine passengers. As the land war rages above, a slow but deadly battle is joined between Space Marines and Tau Battlesuits in the depths of Kvarium's sea. Torpedos, prop-bombs and missles from the Space Solves Thunderhawk Gunships take a heavy toll on the Hammerhead and Manta gunships that gracefully move through the water to intercept. Hundreds of Tau and Space Marine corpses float to the surface, but the Space Wolves are eventually successful, and make the long walk back to land along the sea bed."

It seems from this description that the Tau were caught off guard by the wolves sudden strike. It also seems that the wolves won by dealing with the Tau's heavier weaponry first (knocking out or driving off the mantas and hammerheads which CAN FUNCTION UNDERWATER).

In the newer versions such as the Space Wolves's codex, it seems the battle was only really decided by the Tau's under-water hab-domes being destroyed, at which point they flee. It dose not really say how the course of the battle went so the Tau could have been winning up until that point.

Maybe that is the case

 Great White wrote:
So I was reading the story about the war on kvarian(think that's go it's spelled) alpha. The one where the tau and wolves fought on the bottom of the ocean. I was wondering how the wolves won? They were walking along the ocan floor, we're as the tau were jetting around. How could the puppies have actually won?

Because the author wanted them to.

That's typically the only rational behind who wins what in 40k, and 40k rapidly breaks down when you really try to look at the details and realities of the universe.

The idea of drop pods doing anything but shattering or uncontrollably sinking once they hit water (or awkwardly floating) is somewhat ludicrous, as is thinking the very tiny number of Thunderhawks an SM chapter can muster providing enough air power to do...well, anything against an entire planets worth of foes.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Great White wrote:
So I was reading the story about the war on kvarian(think that's go it's spelled) alpha. The one where the tau and wolves fought on the bottom of the ocean. I was wondering how the wolves won? They were walking along the ocan floor, we're as the tau were jetting around. How could the puppies have actually won?

Because the author wanted them to.

That's typically the only rational behind who wins what in 40k, and 40k rapidly breaks down when you really try to look at the details and realities of the universe.

The idea of drop pods doing anything but shattering or uncontrollably sinking once they hit water (or awkwardly floating) is somewhat ludicrous, as is thinking the very tiny number of Thunderhawks an SM chapter can muster providing enough air power to do...well, anything against an entire planets worth of foes.

No, they'd sink. There is isn't enough air in a drop pod to make it float compared to all of the dense metal used to make it. Like the space marines in it, it's gonna sink like a stone.

That's most probabl true if they stay intact, but the problem is once they hit that water they no longer would really have control over where they go, and, depending on the depth, could end up thousands of meters from where they intended to be, not to mention pressure issues (as coming from a vacuum onto ground in a gas atmosphere is entirely different than doing so into water, especially deep water)

I would imagine it would also immediately slow down to a snails pace

NauticalKendall wrote:
I can see that they just wouldn't have the experience with such a thing to be able to combat them very well underwater. But then again underwater isn't so different than space, and I"m sure they have experience doing that.

Excepting the radical difference in pressures...

I am reminded of a bit from Futurama: