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alleus wrote:
I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str7 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.

The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.

This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.

That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.

Guess its good no one uses terminators haha

Lamech wrote:

 Swara wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
Yea I am not sure what the Sicarians are supposed to be killing, they have too few attacks to charge into swarms, and aren't strong enough in close combat to hit MEQ with any effectiveness. They wound T4 on a 5+, not good odds even with an AP2 weapon in the second round. You'll lose the first round of combat because you won't cause any wounds...

I guess it will all depend on Doctrina Imperatives. We'll at least start to get codex leaks next week, maybe we'll finally find out what the imperatives are.

Aren't they S4 with furious charge and tasers? St7 on charge?
I may be confused with the other units.

they are S4 with furious charge
and if they use Transsonic sword they will get +1S
first round D2 on a 6

if they use Transsonic knife they will have still S4
first round D2 on a 6

They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.

alleus wrote:
I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str7 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.

The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.

This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.

That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.

did you do your test with the basic weapon?
- transonic razor (Transonic)
- chordaclaw (molecular Dissonace)
- Grenades

or did you do yout test with two Transonic Blades?

Sounds like he actually rolled dice rather than math-hammering.

 BrookM wrote:
What a gakky picture, the edges are missing! But at least there's no glare I suppose.

The GW intern responsible for the leaks didn't notice that we already have pictures.

Lamech wrote:

alleus wrote:
I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str5 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.

The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.

This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.

That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.

did you do your test with the basic weapon?
- transonic razor (Transonic)
- chordaclaw (molecular Dissonace)
- Grenades

or did you do yout test with two Transonic Blades?

Ah, I used the razor and claw. So str5, not 6. My bad. The claws give the fleshbane, which did well with the rerolls.

And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

You know. If that formation really does offer Walker units (apparently 2x Dragoon, 1x Ballesterius in that formation of units), Outflank and Acute senses, I am not terribly impressed.

Those models already have wonderful mobility, and between a movement phase w/Dunestrider and a run/charge with it, Dragoons already have great threat range.

They gain almost nothing from Outflanking, showing up late, and waiting yet another turn to assault.

As to those who say Dragoons clearly trump Ballesterius, I think you're underselling that Cognis shooting, which suddenly makes them viable anti-air on the cheap, all without gimping them. Oh, and a fair number of anti-tank options will be reticent of assaulting them, and possibly eating a really withering overwatch.

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

Requizen wrote:
Oh, the Pistol is Shred and not Rend.... not nearly as good.

to be honest, if it was rending that would be really really good.
A 5 man unit infiltrates comes up and unloads 25 shots at you. Take 3 wounds with no saves before it charges you.

Overwatch is gonna be fun on them though.

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

Mathhammer doesn't give ALL results; mathhammer provides statistically expected results.

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

Mathhammer doesn't give ALL results; mathhammer provides statistically expected results.

Well, you are free to do as much math-hammer as you want my friend. Get back with the results, would be interesting to compare :-)

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

I always like quotes like that. Statistics works correctly for you every single day, you just do not understand what it is and what is it used for.

Take your dice results over a period of a thousand games and check with those calculations again. Statistics isn't fortune-telling. It will not tell you what the outcome will be, just what the outcome is likely to be.

 c0j1r0 wrote:


They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.

the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.

with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.

Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.

 Exergy wrote:

 c0j1r0 wrote:


They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.

the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.

with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.

Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.

The two load outs are stubcarbine (18" S4 assault 3) and power sword OR taser goad and the pistol. Both cost 35pts per model. So both load outs seem to have their pros and cons.

As for the stalkers, their load outs are either transonic razor, chrodclaw and mindscrambler grenades (which let you strike at initiative through cover and are haywire grenades) OR two transonic blades (+1S). Both cost 30pts per model.

Lamech wrote:
on page 7of the new WD, there are 2 small screenshots of the new Codex.
I took the second one, because it says something about formation and the special rules...
It is so small that i only can read the formation about the Ironstrider, which says, they will have flank attack and sharp minds but you will need 3 of them and there is no futher restriction

formation include 2 dragoons and 1 ironstrider ?

that would be very cool, 3 walkers that can outflank and do some good damage !

 RedFox wrote:

Lamech wrote:
on page 7of the new WD, there are 2 small screenshots of the new Codex.
I took the second one, because it says something about formation and the special rules...
It is so small that i only can read the formation about the Ironstrider, which says, they will have flank attack and sharp minds but you will need 3 of them and there is no futher restriction

Spoiler:

formation include 2 dragoons and 1 ironstrider ?

that would be very cool, 3 walkers that can outflank and do some good damage !

exactly

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.

with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.

Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.

The two load outs are stubcarbine (18" S4 assault 3) and power sword OR taser goad and the pistol. Both cost 35pts per model. So both load outs seem to have their pros and cons.

As for the stalkers, their load outs are either transonic razor, chrodclaw and mindscrambler grenades (which let you strike at initiative through cover and are haywire grenades) OR two transonic blades (+1S). Both cost 30pts per model.

Not saying the stubcarbine is bad. With the sword it is at least different. I think one might mix them with the pistol and goad.

I think the razor+claw+grenades looks better than the dual blade so am going to be running them that way.

Any word on how many Ruststalkers/Infiltrators come per box?

I have to say this this army so far looks great and by the looks some what balanced an around good wee force to play


Automatically Appended Next Post:
5 come a box I think was said

Can anyone translate the basic point cost of the unit and how many models that is?

 Haljin wrote:

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

I always like quotes like that. Statistics works correctly for you every single day, you just do not understand what it is and what is it used for.

Take your dice results over a period of a thousand games and check with those calculations again. Statistics isn't fortune-telling. It will not tell you what the outcome will be, just what the outcome is likely to be.

Whats the old phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

 Exergy wrote:
Not saying the stubcarbine is bad. With the sword it is at least different. I think one might mix them with the pistol and goad.

I think the razor+claw+grenades looks better than the dual blade so am going to be running them that way.

Agreed, striking at I4 through cover is pretty import for the unit. That being said the stalkers seem to do well against walkers/vehicles regardless of loadout as long as you give the leader prehensile dataspike for 4 S4 (S5 for stalkers with furious charge) haywire attacks on the charge at I4 (it's a specialist weapon so no +1 attack for an extra hand weapon) but you get 1 additional S4 haywire attack at I10 thanks to it's special rule. it only costs 10 points so seems well worth it.

The interesting thing with the infiltrator variant is infiltrate, stealth and reducing BS, WS, I and LD by 1 of all enemy units within 6". It makes them pretty brutal against I4 units in the open.

So far both variants of sicarian seem workable, though Doctrina Imperatives will probably be what makes/breaks them.

EDIT:

 quickfuze wrote:
Can anyone translate the basic point cost of the unit and how many models that is?

Infiltrators are 185 points for the first 5 and then 35 points for each additional model. Stalkers are 160 points for the first 5 and then 30 points for each additional model.

160 for the Ruststalkers, 185 for the Infiltrators.

5 models per unit before any other upgrades, as far as I can tell.

Edit: Ninja'd

But yeah. Unfortunately, I think these guys are going to suffer from all the common problems of assault units: The Assault phase is weak. Too much shooting to override their T3 and too much overwatch..

HOWEVER. Doctrina Imperatives could change that drastically, as could a potential transport vehicle, and once they're on the table, we may find them deadly effective when paired up with the other units in the Codex.

Not to mention, if there is indeed a fuller Adeptus Mechanicus Codex, they may get more units and models to support them.

And I still think Imperial Knights are going to be a LOW in this. They're in the background of so many pics!!

And as to the stuff about mathhammer, I honestly agree. Mathhammer is not representative of the typical game. Statistically? Sure, absolutely, over hundreds or thousands of games, the dice will show their statistics.. But I think that it is BECAUSE of mathhammer that people get discouraged about certain units, or even playing the game at all. My Tac squad survived in combat against a full squad of Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield terminators for 4 rounds, and actually killed more than they lost, which mathhammer suggests is statistically improbable, but an amazing thing happened on the battlefield that nobody could predict, and the game was more FUN because of it.

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

lol

Concerning the new mini, they're good, but I prefer the skitari. Wonder what will come after the dune spider walker. Hope that these rumoured half man half spider turns out to be true

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Neither is Math Hammer in most games.

There may be a place for a debate as to the relative merits of statistical prediction vs mechanical replication.

A thread about the release of a new 40K army probably isn't it.

Some one a local forum posted this in relation to the infiltrators. Not a fan of the heads.

alleus wrote:

 pretre wrote:

alleus wrote:
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.

The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.

Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.

I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.

You're math hammering wrong then. On average, 10 guardsmen firing twice will kill 0.55 of a Terminator. But that's only half the story, that's the average, beyond that you can go hardcore math hammer and determine they have a...

56.9% chance of killing 0 Terminators
32.5% chance of killing 1 Terminator
8.8% chance of killing 2 Terminators
1.5% chance of killing 3 Terminators
0.2% chance of killing more than 3 Terminators.

So math hammering tells me that your 10 guardsmen killing 3 terminators was a 1 in 67 chance of happening.

Since determining the full distribution like that is a bit of a pain in the arse, we typically just talk in averages, knowing that our average does have some distribution but not bothering to actually calculate it.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Some one a local forum posted this in relation to the infiltrators. Not a fan of the heads.

Everything has been ruined.


But still having a partsgasm here from all the neat bitz

particularly love the tazer mauls which i feel will be going on some kinda priest or commissar for my conscripts