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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Florida

Mecha_buddha: what was the line art they used? I think that part is pretty spiffy (as long as you get some props for it).

\m/ 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Well we are going rather off topic now, but since I can't be arsed taking it to PM's and you've already posted, a mod can delete our posts if they want
You have expressed your viewpoint, which is fair. I have expressed an opposing viewpoint. There is no reason for our dialog to be negative, combative, or stressful. Discussions are not inherently contentious, and I don't feel that there is any reason our present discussion sould be considered contentious.
When a opposing viewpoints are continuously discussed then isn't that, by definition, a contentious discussion? Unless you want to assign a harsher and more specific connotation to the word contentious being one of a more heated argument in which case we're just getting in to semantics.

Do you feel that we are having a combative interaction? It seems that you may have taken my statement that you can name your ulcer after me to have been insulting in some way. Is that correct?
No... did you think my reply was combative? I didn't find it insulting, I found it presumptuous, as it would assume that just because I might pursue a trivial matter would mean that trivial matters might cause someone (me in particular) to get an ulcer

I did not find your posts combative and I did not intend my post to be combative. I assumed you were using some level of humour or abstraction when you said "you can name your ulcer after me" which is why I replied" why aren't you letting it go?" with a big emoticon at the end which was there to convey my low level of sincerity. I just found it ironic that you were persisting in talking about how he shouldn't bother while simultaneously making multiple posts that weren't really adding to why he shouldn't bother, the irony being you saying something is trivial so let it go while simultaneously pursuing a trivial discussion of your own (trivial because you basically said your peace in your first post, not that your other posts have been poor, just trivial in the sense I don't think you've added anything of substance that wasn't in your first post). But then I don't claim to be doing anything different to that either, we are simply adding words and excessive elaboration to a discussion

Trivial matters like wargaming are what I use to stop myself stressing about the other big things that WOULD give me an ulcer if I spent too long brooding on them My liberal use of emoticons should tell you that I continue to post mostly because I find the discussion amusing more than I find it stressful/combative/whatever.

Mostly, since you are giving your professional opinion, what I'd like to know (and what I alluded to earlier though maybe didn't ask directly) is if it bothers you that someone is using your images and you can be arsed writing a letter to the blogger, is there any reason beyond "we shouldn't stress the little things" that you shouldn't do it? And further on any reason NOT to file a DMCA complaint? There's lots of reasons not to go further than DMCA complaint in to things that would cost large amounts of time and money... but then I don't think anyone has suggested that he should go do any of those things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Which, by the way, I hope you realize we cannot abbreviate your name meaningfully?
You mean ASS? You worried about calling me a donkey?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pacific wrote:
Honestly think some people need something actually important to worry about, Jesus fething wept what a mountain out of a mole hill.
We are on a forum...a forum that discusses toy soldiers...a global forum with people we will likely never meet. I think we are well past worrying about wasting our time doing trivial things when we are the sort of people who not only burn copious hours working on something as trivial as toy soldiers, we actually spend copious hours DISCUSSIING the trivial activity of working on toy soldiers with people who we will never meet and who's opinion should be less valuable to us than, well, anything

That's almost worthy of an xzibit meme "I heard you like trivial things, so I put a discussion forum in your toy soldiers so you can burn time while you burn time".

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
A blogger stealing your picture would be more comparable if you got lunch every day at a café, every day there's a line and every day the same person walked in and cut people off.


I think that's only a worthwhile analogy if the person bumping into the queue is blind, or from northern asia (i.e. they don't realise they have done anything wrong).
Well a blind person would imply some disability that causes them to do it. Lets agree that it could simply be a really rude westerner or someone from a different culture, either way it would be annoying. But I never claimed it was a GOOD analogy, simply a more comparable one

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/05 19:57:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mostly, since you are giving your professional opinion, what I'd like to know (and what I alluded to earlier though maybe didn't ask directly) is if it bothers you that someone is using your images and you can be arsed writing a letter to the blogger, is there any reason beyond "we shouldn't stress the little things" that you shouldn't do it? And further on any reason NOT to file a DMCA complaint? There's lots of reasons not to go further than DMCA complaint in to things that would cost large amounts of time and money... but then I don't think anyone has suggested that he should go do any of those things.


I was not giving my professional opinion. Further, I am not a lawyer and nothing I have posted in this thread constitutes legal advice.

The reason is simply what I and others have already expressed. It is okay to not sweat the small stuff. Sometimes, as I have said multiple times, it is better for one's mental and emotional health to simply let a matter slide, and try to treat it as a positive experience.

As Sean mentioned, for example, one can view theft as an indication that you have created something worth stealing. Clearly, Mecha Buddha's art is awesome enough that multiple folks have enjoyed it enough to use it in a way that promotes the hobby. One can recognize what is positive in this situation as well as what is negative. Having recognized the positive aspects of it, one can decide to focus on those aspects rather than the negative aspects.

Another issue, that Haight brought up, is a cost/benefit analysis. What is the harm caused? How much will it cost to redress that harm?

What happens, for example, if you send the DMCA takedown notification and it is ignored? What are you going to do? Are you going to file a lawsuit? How much will that cost? How much of your time will it take?

What happens, for example, if you send a message and it is met with an aggressive response? Are you going to escalate the matter? What are the risks involved in doing that? What are the costs?

Haight mentioned that in this particular instance, it seemed that the costs are likely far greater than the benefits of redressing the harm. That is another practical basis on which to simply let the matter slide.

Both of these are effective perspectives from which to evaluate a contentious legal issue, which is what the OP is asking about. I won't say how I would advise Mecha Buddha if he were a client. What I am saying is that when facing a contentious legal issue, it is helpful to look at it from the perspectives discussed above. My personal viewpoint on the matter is that both such perspectives suggest that letting the matter slide could be a productive, healthy way in which to deal with the situation, amongst other ways to deal with it.


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Foer the record I just caught up on the thread and ended up exaulting 90% of the posts.

Great discussion.

 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Ontario Canada

 Pacific wrote:
Honestly think some people need something actually important to worry about, Jesus fething wept what a mountain out of a mole hill.

I wondered if the OP was a piss-take, obviously not though!



Im not really worried or losing sleep over it, but its gakky to have your work used without credit and made popular enough for others to take it from the blog and use it uncredited.

Some good advice was given in this thread and I know now that the dakka galleries have limited functionality for protecting my work. So in the future this will be taken into consideration before I post anything.


@melkorthetonedeaf - it was a drawing i did more as a joke near the beginning of 6th ED 40k. it was a tau fire warrior holding hands with a farseer and a space marine Sgt, titled BFFs (best friends forever) to poke fun at the battle brothers choices.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Spoiler:
weeble1000 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mostly, since you are giving your professional opinion, what I'd like to know (and what I alluded to earlier though maybe didn't ask directly) is if it bothers you that someone is using your images and you can be arsed writing a letter to the blogger, is there any reason beyond "we shouldn't stress the little things" that you shouldn't do it? And further on any reason NOT to file a DMCA complaint? There's lots of reasons not to go further than DMCA complaint in to things that would cost large amounts of time and money... but then I don't think anyone has suggested that he should go do any of those things.


I was not giving my professional opinion. Further, I am not a lawyer and nothing I have posted in this thread constitutes legal advice.

The reason is simply what I and others have already expressed. It is okay to not sweat the small stuff. Sometimes, as I have said multiple times, it is better for one's mental and emotional health to simply let a matter slide, and try to treat it as a positive experience.

As Sean mentioned, for example, one can view theft as an indication that you have created something worth stealing. Clearly, Mecha Buddha's art is awesome enough that multiple folks have enjoyed it enough to use it in a way that promotes the hobby. One can recognize what is positive in this situation as well as what is negative. Having recognized the positive aspects of it, one can decide to focus on those aspects rather than the negative aspects.

Another issue, that Haight brought up, is a cost/benefit analysis. What is the harm caused? How much will it cost to redress that harm?

What happens, for example, if you send the DMCA takedown notification and it is ignored? What are you going to do? Are you going to file a lawsuit? How much will that cost? How much of your time will it take?

What happens, for example, if you send a message and it is met with an aggressive response? Are you going to escalate the matter? What are the risks involved in doing that? What are the costs?

Haight mentioned that in this particular instance, it seemed that the costs are likely far greater than the benefits of redressing the harm. That is another practical basis on which to simply let the matter slide.

Both of these are effective perspectives from which to evaluate a contentious legal issue, which is what the OP is asking about. I won't say how I would advise Mecha Buddha if he were a client. What I am saying is that when facing a contentious legal issue, it is helpful to look at it from the perspectives discussed above. My personal viewpoint on the matter is that both such perspectives suggest that letting the matter slide could be a productive, healthy way in which to deal with the situation, amongst other ways to deal with it.



This is sort of what I was getting at. I have seen these things snowball quite quickly in the past (even with hobby related materials where no money is being made). Once you become invested in getting justice for yourself - it often becomes hard to stop if the offending party doesn't just back down.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

I once posted an image of someone else's work in a Dakka thread to illustrate a point about I was making.

It then automatically uploaded to my Dakka Gallery without me knowing and I was later chastised by someone for trying to pass it off as my own work.

All completely unintentional on my part and I deleted the image immediately.

It's a social minefield this image sharing lark.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 13:25:51


   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





weeble1000 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Mostly, since you are giving your professional opinion, what I'd like to know (and what I alluded to earlier though maybe didn't ask directly) is if it bothers you that someone is using your images and you can be arsed writing a letter to the blogger, is there any reason beyond "we shouldn't stress the little things" that you shouldn't do it? And further on any reason NOT to file a DMCA complaint? There's lots of reasons not to go further than DMCA complaint in to things that would cost large amounts of time and money... but then I don't think anyone has suggested that he should go do any of those things.


I was not giving my professional opinion. Further, I am not a lawyer and nothing I have posted in this thread constitutes legal advice.
Well you went out of your way to say you advise litigants for a living, I only assume you did that because you wanted your opinion to carry more weight. I understand your random internet advice isn't necessarily legal advice, perhaps "professional opinion" was the wrong word though.

It is okay to not sweat the small stuff
But by the same token I don't think there's any problem with admitting that the small stuff can be annoying and if you find it annoying you can (within reason) address it.

I'm not a psychologist, but really I don't think worrying about the little things is what drives people to stress. It's the big problems in one's life that can manifest as stressing the little things, not the other way around. That's why I don't think there's a lot of benefit telling someone they shouldn't worry about the little things because if they are worrying about the little things to the point that it's a real issue it's not the little things that are the problem, there's probably some deeper emotional/psychological issues behind it.

I understand what you mean about trying to look at the positive more than the negative... but that's such a personal thing, the only counter required to that is "nah, the negative aspects bother me more than the positive aspects make me feel good". Any psychological analysis beyond that seems rather fruitless to me. We are all different people, some things bother some people more than other people.

Another issue, that Haight brought up, is a cost/benefit analysis. What is the harm caused? How much will it cost to redress that harm?

What happens, for example, if you send the DMCA takedown notification and it is ignored? What are you going to do? Are you going to file a lawsuit? How much will that cost? How much of your time will it take?

What happens, for example, if you send a message and it is met with an aggressive response? Are you going to escalate the matter? What are the risks involved in doing that? What are the costs?

Haight mentioned that in this particular instance, it seemed that the costs are likely far greater than the benefits of redressing the harm. That is another practical basis on which to simply let the matter slide.
And I don't disagree with what Haight said... which is "anything MORE and you are engaging in using a nuclear bomb to kill a fly.", not "well you should just let it go completely and not worry about doing anything at all because maybe the blogger will reply with an unhappy email and that would be terrible and you'll get an ulcer"

End of the day:
I think if it bothers you, write a letter to the blogger. If the answer isn't satisfactory and it still bothers you, write a DMCA complaint or take down the picture (assuming they are linking to it rather than made a copy of it). If that doesn't work then you should probably let it go because anything beyond that is going to be difficult and/or time consuming and/or money consuming and not worth the effort, maybe in future don't use Dakka's gallery if you want to be able to control your images better (and I know several photographers who are careful about how and where they upload images because they want to balance how much they get their art out there vs how much they can control the art they have spent time and money producing).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/06 13:59:55


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well you went out of your way to say you advise litigants for a living, I only assume you did that because you wanted your opinion to carry more weight. I understand your random internet advice isn't necessarily legal advice, perhaps "professional opinion" was the wrong word though.


There are legal and ethical implications attached to advising in a professional capacity. Giving professional advice is very different from saying what I think about something. For future reference, it is somewhat impolite to intimate that a professional is advising in a professional capacity. It's no big deal here, and I'm not upset about it, but you are right that "professional opinion" was the wrong phrase to use.

I did reference my status as a professional consultant, and what I meant by this is that I have seen lots of contentious scenarios play out, and therefore my general viewpoint has the benefit of having been formed via firsthand experience. In short, it was not formed in a vacuum and is not simply theoretical. Thus, in my view of the world, it should have the type of weight one associates with firsthand experience, whatever that may be.

It is easy to sit back and say 'this is wrong, you should do something about it'. I, however, have been involved in many, many instances of people 'doing something about it'. I have seen the good that comes from it, and the bad. As a result, I have in mind the potential costs involved in pursuing restitution or justice, and I think it is always a good idea to keep such costs in mind. Because of my life experiences, I have some conception about what those costs can be that others might not.

That experienced-based viewpoint is different from a professional opinion, and were I advising in a professional capacity, it would involve A) confidentiality, B) a much deeper examination of the facts, and C) the desires, expectations, wants, needs, etc. of the client, and all of the legal, moral, and ethical responsibilities associated with them. My professional opinion could be substantially different from the viewpoint I am expressing here. I simply don't know because I have not been engaged to give that opinion, and have therefore not engaged in the professional process whereby I would form and communicate a professional opinion.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/06 14:50:15


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Florida

We are on a forum...a forum that discusses toy soldiers...a global forum with people we will likely never meet. I think we are well past worrying about wasting our time doing trivial things when we are the sort of people who not only burn copious hours working on something as trivial as toy soldiers, we actually spend copious hours DISCUSSIING the trivial activity of working on toy soldiers with people who we will never meet and who's opinion should be less valuable to us than, well, anything.

I want to die now. THANKS. Also you might have noticed I didn't properly quote that. Can we get back on topic? I wanna know what the LGS poster ripped off.

\m/ 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Ontario Canada

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:


I want to die now. THANKS. Also you might have noticed I didn't properly quote that. Can we get back on topic? I wanna know what the LGS poster ripped off.


They took my entire image then added the name and dates of their 40k even to the top. The event happened months ago, but after the image was posted to the blog.


 
   
Made in jp
Fixture of Dakka





Japan

I have seen pictures of my Hello Kitty Marines on other blogs and as long as they don't claim them as their own, i have no issues with it.

Squidbot;
"That sound? That's the sound of me drinking all my paint and stabbing myself in the eyes with my brushes. "
My Doombringer Space Marine Army
Hello Kitty Space Marines project
Buddhist Space marine Project
Other Projects
Imageshack deleted all my Images Thank you! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Florida

I frequently steal images to make posters for local events, and I have never given credit once. Why, you ask? Cuz Kanye told me I could.

I don't think there's much of a difference between copying a professional photograph or copying a painting or a painted model. I think it all comes down to giving credit where it is due. BUT! What if someone were to take, let's say, the Hello Kitty Marines (so awesome), cut them out and photoshop them into a battlefield of corpses or something similar, slap some text on top (a tasteful, elegant script perhaps?) and say THAT was their's, it gets a little blurry.

I just wanted to know how much a jerk I am for making all those punk rock flyers over the years.

\m/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
I frequently steal images to make posters for local events, and I have never given credit once. Why, you ask? Cuz Kanye told me I could.

I don't think there's much of a difference between copying a professional photograph or copying a painting or a painted model. I think it all comes down to giving credit where it is due. BUT! What if someone were to take, let's say, the Hello Kitty Marines (so awesome), cut them out and photoshop them into a battlefield of corpses or something similar, slap some text on top (a tasteful, elegant script perhaps?) and say THAT was their's, it gets a little blurry.

I just wanted to know how much a jerk I am for making all those punk rock flyers over the years.


Depends. It is likely a derivative work, because what you are describing is basically the legal definition of a derivative work: start with a copy of the root work, and modify that copy in a way that substantively preserves the protected expression of the root work.

It may be protected by the First Amendment/parody/fair use, but even in such as case the act is first unfair appropriation and second no liability attaches to said unfair appropriation. In other words, you have to infringe a copyright before that infringement is excusable.

As a rock flier, no, probably not fair use, but it's rock and roll, man. Are you gonna follow the rules? Seriously though, what you are describing sounds like infringement.

However, like I and others have said, just because someone has rights doesn't mean that person has to assert those rights, nor does it dictate the way in which those rights should be asserted.

TLDR: It is likely copyright infringement, but it is equally likely that nobody cares about it. I don't call the cops to report someone doing a rolling stop or running a red light.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/07 15:11:32


Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

weeble1000 wrote:
That experienced-based viewpoint is different from a professional opinion, and were I advising in a professional capacity, it would involve A) confidentiality, B) a much deeper examination of the facts, and C) the desires, expectations, wants, needs, etc. of the client, and all of the legal, moral, and ethical responsibilities associated with them.
You neglected "D) Large fees."

While I tend more toward Weeble's viewpoint in general, the devil is always in the details. In this case, however the image was being used on that blog was obviously annoying enough Mecha_buddha to merit, in his view, taking some action. I think it's unfortunate that the result is the complete withdrawal of the artwork in question, but I can understand the rationale.

But to bring us back around to the original conversation, at least for a moment - Mecha_buddha, in your opinion as a content creator, what WOULD you want in an ideal gallery setup in this case? What burden on the creator is acceptable - do you need to watermark your own pictures? Is it just hot-linking that's problematic? If someone pulled the image out of their browser cache, is that a failing in the gallery?

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

just in case anyone missed the art in question:

Spoiler:


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Dakka should be able to add a dynamic water mark to the image. You could add a static one as well.


Except Dakka does not claim the copyright to images posted.


Doesn't have to be a watermark claim - just a:

"Image Hosted at DakkaDakka.com in Mecha_buddha's gallery"

Small and only placed with hot-linked images. Adds a bit of CPU time (depending on how many hotlinked images...it can add up) but the original remains untouched, no claims of ownership are made.


I'd hate to have that as the mandatory default on my images. I host them here on dakka because I'm a frequent poster and because it is easy but I use the images elsewhere where I wouldn't want that watermark (like my blog). The only way I'd support that was if it was an opt IN function you had to specifically choose. If someone really cares about it, they can always click the box. My guess is that would constitute a small minority of folks who upload so wouldn't affect the server load too much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 20:08:48


 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Ontario Canada

 Janthkin wrote:


But to bring us back around to the original conversation, at least for a moment - Mecha_buddha, in your opinion as a content creator, what WOULD you want in an ideal gallery setup in this case? What burden on the creator is acceptable - do you need to watermark your own pictures? Is it just hot-linking that's problematic? If someone pulled the image out of their browser cache, is that a failing in the gallery?


Thinking about an ideal scenario is an opt in system. A checkbox for "Add watermark" (default unchecked) then 2 additional options, "Text watermark" similar to above mentioned "Image found at dakkadakka.com gallery of [USER]" and possibly a second option for a user created image watermark?

I don't know how easy or hard any of that would be to implement or if it could easily be circumvented (save and crop image).

Perhaps a bare minimum of a warning when uploading to the gallery that people may use your images without permission, and to protect yourself appropriately. Then provide links for tutorials on how to watermark images?


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Florida

 Pacific wrote:
just in case anyone missed the art in question:

I love you.

\m/ 
   
 
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