Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Hordini wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

Arabs deny the existence of Israel because it is Jewish not because it is Israeli.

By "Arabs" did you mean "Muslims"? Because it is possible to be Arab and not Muslim.

Also there is way more to the denial of Israeli statehood than religion.

Yeah. It's even possible to be Arab and Jewish, or Arab and Christian.

To support Hordini, it is even possible to be Arab and Israeli.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

Arabs deny the existence of Israel because it is Jewish not because it is Israeli.

By "Arabs" did you mean "Muslims"? Because it is possible to be Arab and not Muslim.

Also there is way more to the denial of Israeli statehood than religion.

Yeah. It's even possible to be Arab and Jewish, or Arab and Christian.

To support Hordini, it is even possible to be Arab and Israeli.

Of which there are many of.

I don't think it's the best strategy, no matter how much you may hate it for whatever reason, to try denying the existence of a nation that has nukes and the habit of kicking the crap out everyone in various wars.

Me Like Burnaz wrote:
How is that different than American textbook manufacturers making science books that place Creationism and Intelligent Design as viable scientific theories to sell their products to a certain market? I don't see outrage over that?

If that makes you feel better, that makes you a laughing stock around here, and is considered incredibly backward. Caveman-like and incredibly obscurantist. Something a third-world country would be ashamed of.

Yeah, clearly worse than the map in the OP. Not that the map is any good, but this is terrible.

Not a fan of Israel's policies, but Harper Collins are stupid for doing this for many reasons.

There aren't protests when mapmakers omit to distinguish the occupied territories.

People need to realise that there is a lot of bad blood and dishonesty on both sides, and you need to be careful how you adress which faction and with which information. People houldnt resort to knee jerk responces of Islamophobic or anti-Semitic.

Very true. My thing is, if they don't put israel on the map then who exactly do they expect people to think lives there? Maybe they should have added a "here be dragons" over the top of israel's borders so people don't innocently wander over thinking it's unoccupied ground.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Very true. My thing is, if they don't put israel on the map then who exactly do they expect people to think lives there? Maybe they should have added a "here be dragons" over the top of israel's borders so people don't innocently wander over thinking it's unoccupied ground.

Just think, that map could be the cause of the next big Middle East war when Arabs, thinking the Israelis have moved out, descend en masse only to find out the hard way that the map lied.

How often are they actually doing this though?

Are there different books for China or Russia? Is this truly the first time that companies tailored maps for sale to special areas?

I work in Saudi.
I can go into any big book shop down town and find maps/globes by several large manufacturers/publishers that are just the same.
I'm fairly sure I found a Nat Geo Atlas that did the same thing
My personal favorite was the Times Atlas of the world with Israel coloured in by black marker.....

I made the mistake of reading the Facebook comments. This is my favorite:

The OP Comment wrote:

As a British Christian, I will no longer buy any HarperCollins products for myself or my book-loving daughter. You are anti-Semitic and you're only doing this u-turn because you've been caught out. Your company is a disgrace. Wiping the Jewish nation from the map makes you no better than Hitler.

The first reply

Stupid person wrote:
And I'll bet if they left Gaza and the Left bank off the map, you wouldn't have said a word, would you?

7 people liked that


And it gets worse...

 d-usa wrote:
How often are they actually doing this though?

Are there different books for China or Russia? Is this truly the first time that companies tailored maps for sale to special areas?

I wonder how Kashmir is shown on Indian and Pakistani marketed maps

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
I made the mistake of reading the Facebook comments. This is my favorite:

The OP Comment wrote:

As a British Christian, I will no longer buy any HarperCollins products for myself or my book-loving daughter. You are anti-Semitic and you're only doing this u-turn because you've been caught out. Your company is a disgrace. Wiping the Jewish nation from the map makes you no better than Hitler.

The first reply

Stupid person wrote:
And I'll bet if they left Gaza and the Left bank off the map, you wouldn't have said a word, would you?

7 people liked that


And it gets worse...

Making comparative comments towards the omission of the occupied territories on other maps is valid. The fact that you just think it 'stupid' only gives an indication of how dogmatised you are becoming.
The problems regarding Israel-Palestine are not in any way once sided, and those who think they are and are conditioned to laugh at the opposed arguments have joined the mindless fanatics. We need less of that, not more.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
I made the mistake of reading the Facebook comments. This is my favorite:

The OP Comment wrote:

As a British Christian, I will no longer buy any HarperCollins products for myself or my book-loving daughter. You are anti-Semitic and you're only doing this u-turn because you've been caught out. Your company is a disgrace. Wiping the Jewish nation from the map makes you no better than Hitler.

The first reply

Stupid person wrote:
And I'll bet if they left Gaza and the Left Bank off the map, you wouldn't have said a word, would you?

7 people liked that


And it gets worse...

Making comparative comments towards the omission of the occupied territories on other maps is valid. The fact that you just think it 'stupid' only gives an indication of how dogmatised you are becoming.
The problems regarding Israel-Palestine are not in any way once sided, and those who think they are and are conditioned to laugh at the opposed arguments have joined the mindless fanatics. We need less of that, not more.

Read it again:

Stupid person wrote:
Left Bank

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the assumption though

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Me Like Burnaz wrote:
So a business decided to sell a product to a certain market and to satisfy that market they omitted a certain nation. How is that different than American textbook manufacturers making science books that place Creationism and Intelligent Design as viable scientific theories to sell their products to a certain market? I don't see outrage over that?

The best part of this is that there's a huge overlap between the people who think putting creationism and blatant revisionist history into US textbooks is a great idea and the people who are outraged that a publisher would do the same kind of thing by removing Israel from the map.

Do the textbooks that put forward creation theory totally omit any mention of evolution? How much space does creation theory take compared to evolution? Are these books used in an accredited school?

Scientifically there is no such thing as "creation theory".
To be a scientific theory it has to be empirically testable, repeatable, productive, independently verifiable and falsifiable.
Creationism, intelligent design and other religious encroachments on science display none of those characteristics.

I wasnt entirely serious with the Palestine comment. That being said, there most certainly IS a diaspora of people who self-identify as being Palestinian. MANY of them in fact. Also, Palestine has historically existed as a distinct geographic region for over a millenium, and as a geopolitical entity for about a century (see also: Mandatory Palestine, aka. British Mandate for Palestine). In more modern times, Palestine has been recognized by a state by many on the international scene (more formally as the "State of Palestine" and previously as the "PalestinianNational Authority") including recognition by the UN as a non-member observer state as recently as 2012 (including the requirement that it be referred to officially as the State of Palestine in official UN documents and in official documents published by UN member states), as well as by the Pope as recently as 2014.

 marv335 wrote:
My personal favorite was the Times Atlas of the world with Israel coloured in by black marker.....

It says a lot to the indomitable will of the human spirit.

Steelmage99 wrote:


Scientifically there is no such thing as "creation theory".
To be a scientific theory it has to be empirically testable, repeatable, productive, independently verifiable and falsifiable.
Creationism, intelligent design and other religious encroachments on science display none of those characteristics.

Neither does String Theory but that doesn't stop its supporters trying to get it into textbooks *ba-dum-tsh*

Steelmage99 wrote:

Scientifically there is no such thing as "creation theory".
To be a scientific theory it has to be empirically testable, repeatable, productive, independently verifiable and falsifiable.
Creationism, intelligent design and other religious encroachments on science display none of those characteristics.

Evolution is none of those things either.

It cannot be tested, observed, or repeated.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Evolution is none of those things either.

It cannot be tested, observed, or repeated.

It can, and it has.
That's why it's a theory, not a hypothesis.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091018141716.htm

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:


Scientifically there is no such thing as "creation theory".
To be a scientific theory it has to be empirically testable, repeatable, productive, independently verifiable and falsifiable.
Creationism, intelligent design and other religious encroachments on science display none of those characteristics.

Neither does String Theory but that doesn't stop its supporters trying to get it into textbooks *ba-dum-tsh*

String Theory isn't a scientific theory (yet?!), its a mathematical one, meaning that, for now, it is only being researched as a mathematical construct.

Once the math is figured out, they can start to design experiments to try and verify it and turn it into a scientific theory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

Scientifically there is no such thing as "creation theory".
To be a scientific theory it has to be empirically testable, repeatable, productive, independently verifiable and falsifiable.
Creationism, intelligent design and other religious encroachments on science display none of those characteristics.

Evolution is none of those things either.

It cannot be tested, observed, or repeated.

Evolution can and is tested, observed and repeated. There are a very large number of ways in which that is done, it can be directly observed in organisms that have faster generational cycles (or even in things like domestic animal breeding or crop selection), or indirectly through the study of fossils and DNA evolution, etc.

 marv335 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Evolution is none of those things either.

It cannot be tested, observed, or repeated.

It can, and it has.
That's why it's a theory, not a hypothesis.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091018141716.htm

That is not a repeatable experiment. The bacteria will not develop the same mutation twice, nor has a new species been developed. Just a variation of existing one.

 Grey Templar wrote:


That is not a repeatable experiment. The bacteria will not develop the same mutation twice, nor has a new species been developed. Just a variation of existing one.

Ahem, I suggest you look up the Hawthorn Fly:

http://www.genetics.org/content/163/3/939.long

Oh and there's also evidence in domestic sheep:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1690972/


But by all means continue to argue against experts in the field. I'm sure your knowledge and understanding of the scientific process far exceeds that of those who have dedicated their lives to it.

They're still the same species at this point.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They're still the same species at this point.

Except current domestic sheep are unable to breed with their genetic ancestors.

So no, they're not.

From Maps to Evolution, wow this thread took a turn somewhere.

If you don't recognize Palestine as a state because it never historically existed, then the same goes for Israel, They were both created in the same UN declaration.

How must history does a place need to become it's own state? Well I guess we never have to worry about Texas trying to become it's own state, because it never historically existed. But wait a second America never historically existed either, some people just made that place up a few hundred years ago, so I guess their not a really nation either then as those 13 states never historically existed.

ps. Evolution is a theory backed by millions of data points, Climate change is also real.