Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So im DE friend lovea to DS his raiders onto my troops, and he says that he's tank shocking if he lands on them. Can he do that? It's really annoying and you should mishap before that happens but no he says they ram and I take a ld and move out of the way. Any insight would help!

Deep striking isn't a move so no you can't tank show with a deep strike

Yeah.. that's definitely a load of crap acidlemon. If you tank shock someone, you actually have to move your vehicle toward the target.

Would that not count as a Deep Strike mishap?(Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I think would happen?)

Well he said that since you move at combat speed when you initially DS and move onto a unit you tank shock and then you mishap if anything is still within 1'' so if you move away from it it's fine, or so he says.

You aren't moving at combat speed. You "count" as moving at combat speed. If you were actually moving combat speed they wouldn't have need to make count as doing so.

Omg thank god because he has tank shocked so many of my things off the board! He actually scared off a unit of three broadsides off of my board edge recently. They even had LD9:( So just to recap you don't move but are treated as if you have moved at combat speed?

Yes .

there shall be amany thanks to you in our gaming group lol

Its a Mishap, plain and simple.

Many things preventing this

- They only count as having moved combat speed in the shooting phase, so they cannot ram in the movement phase, as they have not moved at all.

- Ramming requires you to move straight forwards. Deep Striking models have not moved at all (until the shooting phase). Even if you want to say that Deep striking is movement, they will have moved straight down, not straight forwards.

- Deep Striking says to "place" the models on the board, not "move" the models onto the board. This means that he will be trying to "place" his tank on top of your models, and mishap.

- If he wants to Ram your models, he has to declare a distance he wishes to move. Where is he measuring from? There is no "ceiling" to the table to measure where deep striking units come from, and the tank cannot be placed unless all of your units move, so he has nowhere to measure to or from.

- Even if he argues that deep striking is movement because it "counts as moving combat speed", Then since deep strike would force him to end his "move" on top of your models, the skimmer rules would require him to move the minimum distance so that no models are under the skimmer anymore, preventing the tank shock. And since mishap rules come into effect if the tank is within 1" of the models, the skimmer rules wouldn't put him far enough away and he would mishap anyways.

acidlemon wrote:
Well he said that since you move at combat speed when you initially DS and move onto a unit you tank shock and then you mishap if anything is still within 1'' so if you move away from it it's fine, or so he says.

The actual rules for deep strike don't really say that. More specifically, they say "In that turn’s Shooting phase, these units can fire (or Run, Turbo-boost or move Flat Out) as normal, and count as having moved in the previous Movement phase. Vehicles, except for Walkers, count as having moved at Combat Speed (even Immobilised vehicles). This can affect the number of weapons they can fire with their full Ballistic Skill."

So yes, for that turns SHOOTING phase, the deep striking unit counts has having moved (at combat speed in the case of vehicles) in the previous movement phase. (you know, if you want to point out his specific error)

deepstrike placement ending ontop of a unit is a mishap.

being a skimmer does not prevent that.

blaktoof wrote:
deepstrike placement ending ontop of a unit is a mishap.

being a skimmer does not prevent that.

Blaktoof and I agree. A Deep Strike process can result in four things...

1. The model is placed safely on the table.
2. The model mishaps and is destroyed.
3. The model mishaps and is placed safely on the table where the opponent wants it to go.
4. The model mishaps and is placed back into Reserves.

There is no #5 where the model is forced to end a move on top of another unit. Ergo, the Skimmer rule saying it "slides off" other Units doesn't apply. This has been discussed at length on this forum.

Yep. No Tank Shock or Ram on the drop.

Where are some actual rulebook clarification? He's wanting that now

acidlemon wrote:
Where are some actual rulebook clarification? He's wanting that now

Where in the Rulebook can he read out to you that the Unit is "moving"?

And how far is that move?

When he can answer both of those (which is not possible), then you can invoke the tank shock rule (which requires you DECLARE how far you are moving - and it cannot be 0" or just a rotation)

acidlemon wrote:
Where are some actual rulebook clarification? He's wanting that now

In the "arriving from deep.strike " rule everything above is stated.

acidlemon wrote:
Where are some actual rulebook clarification? He's wanting that now

Try reading the section for tank shock? Declaring distance, moving in a straight line?

Alternately, rules section for deep strike. You do a tank shock as instead of moving normally. Deep striking counts as your movement. Deep striking and tank shocking the same turn would count as moving twice.

Plain and simple it's a mishap. Roll for mishap, and it will either go back into reserves, you can put it somewhere, or it wrecks.

Ignoring everything else, this is a permissive rule set. You don't have to show that he can't. He has to show you that he can. He won't be able to because Tank Shock from Deep Strike doesn't exist in the rules.

Even ignoring any of the rest, the very first requirement to perform a tank shock is to pivot the tank on the spot and declare how far it is going to move. You then move the vehicle that distance in a straight line in the direction it is facing.

This is impossible to carry out with a deep striking vehicle while following the process for deep striking.

You don't need a rule saying that this can't be done... It simply doesn't work within the rules.

Direct him to this thread. If he still insists that it can be done, tell him to create a Dakka account and convince us that he can do it, using rules quotations.

Deep strike is working with gravity to achieve maximum velocity in a downward move so hence your moving way past combat speed

 Jihadin wrote:
Deep strike is working with gravity to achieve maximum velocity in a downward move so hence your moving way past combat speed

If it's moving that fast, does that mean that the deep striker takes an automatic pen at AP1 like a horrible Tank Shock?
I would be scared too if a vehicle fell uncontrollably from the sky.

A Raider isn't even a Tank - you need to have the TANK type to TANK shock. How is this even an argument?

NickAtkins wrote:
A Raider isn't even a Tank - you need to have the TANK type to TANK shock. How is this even an argument?

If it has a Shock Prow on it, you can Tank Shock.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

NickAtkins wrote:
A Raider isn't even a Tank - you need to have the TANK type to TANK shock. How is this even an argument?

If it has a Shock Prow on it, you can Tank Shock.

Aaaah. Thats what i get for not knowing the Deldar 'dex.

Still complete BS - you absolutely can't TS out of DS.

I believe the shock prow only gives you permission to tank shock. It doesn't change when you can do it.