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2015/01/07 16:24:46
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
stanman wrote: Aren't strict European gun laws supposed to completely prevent this type of stuff?
No, they're supposed to make killing people harder, and to make it unable for two year olds to kill their mom in the supermarket.
How nice of you to bring this up, though. I'm sure you're very sorry for the victims, and are currently thanking them for the ability of giving you a bad pro-gun argument!
2015/01/07 16:25:15
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
Orlanth wrote: It is a contest of wills between a radical religious group, which demands that their holy law be enforced upon all, including the penalty of death for blasphemy.
This is directly contrary to a societal point of view, established in the traditions of western democracy that freedom of expression and freedom of the Press are important and are to be defended
So this is a contest between the view that holy laws should be enforced upon all against the view that they should not.
So you do recognise that there are two opposed viewpoints; one societal, one is religious. Both are connected even if doctrinally separate in nature.
Orlanth wrote: Also the Islamic world does have a right to Islamic culture.
No. That is completely false. Islamic culture does not mean anything.
Clearly you have a strong detachment from reality if you dismiss the existence of Islamic culture as a major cultural factor, especially in areas where Islam is the predominant religion.
We are done here, there is no logical point in continuing this part of the conversation.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
They are supposed to make them much harder to pull of and therefore less frequent. Are there less frequent? I do not know the numbers. But, like I suspect the huge majority of French people, would not buy a gun even without gun laws, so it would not make much of a difference, I believe.
Would you make an exception for this gun?
Spoiler:
In other news; the reports are saying the car explosion was a "mechanical failure." I don't know if I buy that, especially that it's just far enough and in the opposite direction from the shooting to be a great diversion to pull partial police attention to it.
Sure, but the mod who is removing the posts isn't speaking, but you are vocalising support for the thread deletions.
Example quited earlier:
d-usa wrote: A few posts actually talking about a current events, with the rest of the thread already being a gak-slinging contest about "religion is bad/Islam is evil" before we even got to page 2.
Just lock this thread if it can't stay on topic, it's the same thread we locked last week and the week before.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 16:31:53
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
stanman wrote: Aren't strict European gun laws supposed to completely prevent this type of stuff?
No, they're supposed to make killing people harder, and to make it unable for two year olds to kill their mom in the supermarket.
How nice of you to bring this up, though. I'm sure you're very sorry for the victims, and are currently thanking them for the ability of giving you a bad pro-gun argument!
Also gun laws will not be a deterrent to terrorists, it will in all fairness make it harder to source firearms. However there are enough illegal guns in Europe already, fanatics and criminals have easy (enough) access to them, in the UK gun crime has actually increased since the blanket handgun ban in 1997.
Sure, but the mod who is removing the posts isn't speaking, but you are vocalising support for the thread deletions.
Example quited earlier:
d-usa wrote: A few posts actually talking about a current events, with the rest of the thread already being a gak-slinging contest about "religion is bad/Islam is evil" before we even got to page 2.
Just lock this thread if it can't stay on topic, it's the same thread we locked last week and the week before.
If the deleted posts were off-topic then I guess my "stay on-topic" message was in support of these deletions.
Of course this whole topic is now off-topic as well...
2015/01/07 16:37:55
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
Orlanth wrote: So you do recognise that there are two opposed viewpoints; one societal, one is religious. Both are connected even if doctrinally separate in nature.
Did you notice how I removed every reference to “western” stuff ? Because that is the big deal. Really. Think about it.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'll remember that the next time you're dismissing other people's claims for lack of evidence...
I am sure you will.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 16:38:52
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/07 16:38:01
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
stanman wrote: Aren't strict European gun laws supposed to completely prevent this type of stuff?
No, they're supposed to make killing people harder, and to make it unable for two year olds to kill their mom in the supermarket.
How nice of you to bring this up, though. I'm sure you're very sorry for the victims, and are currently thanking them for the ability of giving you a bad pro-gun argument!
Also gun laws will not be a deterrent to terrorists, it will in all fairness make it harder to source firearms. However there are enough illegal guns in Europe already, fanatics and criminals have easy (enough) access to them, in the UK gun crime has actually increased since the blanket handgun ban in 1997.
And these guys were not amateurs. Whatever group was able to plan this and train these guys wouldn't have any problems getting their hands on weapons no matter what the laws are.
2015/01/07 16:41:36
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
And these guys were not amateurs. Whatever group was able to plan this and train these guys wouldn't have any problems getting their hands on weapons no matter what the laws are.
Isn't that the truth.
This gak looks like the movie Heat, but in real life.
"GET TO THE VAN! GET TO THE VAN!"
2015/01/07 16:46:09
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
And these guys were not amateurs. Whatever group was able to plan this and train these guys wouldn't have any problems getting their hands on weapons no matter what the laws are.
Agreed.
The public reaction is gathering momentum, its called Je suis Charlie (I am Charlie)
This is an online campaign starting, a bit like the massed Draw Mohammed Day protest a few years back, more restrained, but not less defiant.
I agree with its aims, our democratic right to free speech is not for sale, and that needs to be understood and boldly stated in large numbers, and have modded my siggie to include it.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Isn't it awesome how the Administration can't get their people on the same page before opening their mouths to reporters? Josh Earnest's phrasing says a lot about who he is and how he views the world. I guess he was still trying to figure out if there was some youtube video to blame.
Daniel Halper wrote:WH Unsure Whether Murderous Rampage in France Is 'Terrorism'
White House press secretary Josh Earnest refrained from calling the attack on a French magazine "terrorism" in an interview this morning on CNN:
The CNN host asked, "Josh, when you talk about countering the message, you keep using the word violence. I mean, this is an act of terrorism, that's what the president of France called it -- an act of terrorism. You're referring to ISIS and other bad actors, it doesn't really matter who it is at the end of the day. You know you're fighting a very large group of people of somewhat similar concern. Do you see this as an act of terrorism, and is this something that has to be condemned on that level?"
"Based on what we know right now it does seem that's what we're confronting here. And this is an act of violence that we certainly do condemn, and if based on this investigation it turns out to be an act of terrorism, then we would condemn that in the strongest possible terms, too," said Earnest.
"I mean, look, this is again based on the very preliminary information that we have, this isn't just an attack as you point out, Chris, on the people of France and on innocent civilians. This is an attack on some of the basic values that we hold dear here in this country and basic values of freedom of speech and freedom of expression and the free press that is also held dear by our allies in France. So this is something we take seriously and that we condemn, like I said, in the strongest possible terms."
UPDATE: A few minutes later, President Obama released a statement calling it a "terrorist act."
2015/01/07 17:00:58
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
this is exactly what I needed to learn at 3am.
I just...I just hate that nothing can be done. humanity, we can't even stop each other from killing each other.
my condolences to the families of the deceased, I hope that they...I hope they...I dunno.
I want these bastards cought, and if they want to meet their god, good, they would get a formal introduction in the form of a bullet to the head.
death to death tho...it doesn't work. I'm sitting here, feeling crappy typing, while these donkey-caves are out there. damn it, this is just...
*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here*
2015/01/07 17:01:56
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
Personally, I hope these guys get caught alive, and get put in an isolation cell for the rest of their life (hopefully they grow to be like a hundred years old inside prison).
Personally, I hope those guys get caught alive, and go to prison, and manage to get out of their current crazy worldview, and repent, and make as much good as they can from inside prison, until they finish serving their time, or are too old to be kept in prison.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Personally, I hope those guys get caught alive, and go to prison, and manage to get out of their current crazy worldview, and repent, and make as much good as they can from inside prison, until they finish serving their time, or are too old to be kept in prison.
I hope they get either shoot in the guts and bleed out or get caught, go to prison and then get stabbed in a bathroom.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:05:56
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Personally, I hope those guys get caught alive, and go to prison, and manage to get out of their current crazy worldview, and repent, and make as much good as they can from inside prison, until they finish serving their time, or are too old to be kept in prison.
I don't know what the laws are like in France, but with more than ten people dead, would they actually ever finish serving their time?
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Sigvatr wrote: I hope they get either shoot in the guts and bleed out or get caught, go to prison and then get stabbed in a bathroom.
How would they give out information about the people that were helping them to allow to prevent more case like this if they die before getting caught? And how is them getting stabbed in a bathroom better for anyone than them repenting and trying to attune by doing good things?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
-Shrike- wrote: I don't know what the laws are like in France, but with more than ten people dead, would they actually ever finish serving their time?
I have no idea, I do not need to know because they will never catch me, and they have no proof beside.
Uh, I mean, I have no idea because I never did kill 10 peoples so of course I never had any reason to check out, of course!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:09:44
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Sigvatr wrote: I hope they get either shoot in the guts and bleed out or get caught, go to prison and then get stabbed in a bathroom.
How would they give out information about the people that were helping them to allow to prevent more case like this if they die before getting caught? And how is them getting stabbed in a bathroom better for anyone than them repenting and trying to attune by doing good things?
Because this is Dakka OT, and some people here just want to watch the world burn.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2015/01/07 17:11:34
Subject: Re:Shooting at Satirical magazine in France
And these guys were not amateurs. Whatever group was able to plan this and train these guys wouldn't have any problems getting their hands on weapons no matter what the laws are.
Agreed.
The public reaction is gathering momentum, its called Je suis Charlie (I am Charlie)
This is an online campaign starting, a bit like the massed Draw Mohammed Day protest a few years back, more restrained, but not less defiant.
I agree with its aims, our democratic right to free speech is not for sale, and that needs to be understood and boldly stated in large numbers, and have modded my siggie to include it.
What would be good was if every newspaper in Europe reprinted these cartoons as their front pages tomorrow. THAT would send a message that our right to free speech cannot be stopped by terrorist actions.
This online campaign means less than nothing and accomplishes the same.
Sigvatr wrote: I hope they get either shoot in the guts and bleed out or get caught, go to prison and then get stabbed in a bathroom.
How would they give out information about the people that were helping them to allow to prevent more case like this if they die before getting caught? And how is them getting stabbed in a bathroom better for anyone than them repenting and trying to attune by doing good things?
There are many who are just waiting for an excuse enjoy the suffering of humans. Tragedies like these provide them a relatively rare affordance to express these feelings publicly with little or no objection from others.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Personally, I hope those guys get caught alive, and go to prison, and manage to get out of their current crazy worldview, and repent, and make as much good as they can from inside prison, until they finish serving their time, or are too old to be kept in prison.
Your view is measured, reasonable, pragmatic and empathetic. I applaud it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:15:01
How would they give out information about the people that were helping them to allow to prevent more case like this if they die before getting caught? And how is them getting stabbed in a bathroom better for anyone than them repenting and trying to attune by doing good things?
Oh please. Do you really think these guys, with as organized and professional as they are, are giving up any information?
cincydooley wrote: Oh please. Do you really think these guys, with as organized and professional as they are, are giving up any information?
Actually, I do not know either way. But if they die before arrest, I know they will not.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
cincydooley wrote: I think I've decided that I hate "online campaigns" and "online petitions" pretty much more than anything else.
Its because of pessimism like this that #bringbackourgirls and #konynow2012 didn't work.
If only a few people had helped keep those hashtags trending, the pressure on the terrorist groups would have led to them returning Nigeria's girls and turning themselves in to face justice.
Shame on you. You could have made a difference with just a few keystrokes, and you couldn't be bothered to do it. Shame, sir.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
FYI, I looked up the French laws on murder and it carries a maximum sentence of 30 years or life (depending on whether it was premeditated). Of course, there's very little chance they'll take these bastards alive, if they catch them at all.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Its because of pessimism like this that #bringbackourgirls and #konynow2012 didn't work.
If only a few people had helped keep those hashtags trending, the pressure on the terrorist groups would have led to them returning Nigeria's girls and turning themselves in to face justice.
Shame on you. You could have made a difference with just a few keystrokes, and you couldn't be bothered to do it. Shame, sir.
Um. No.
It's because hashtag campaigns are fething useless.
Oh wait, I just realized that was all sarcasm.
I tip my hat to you, sir!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/07 17:17:06
d-usa wrote: Weren't the two sides divided on the religious line of Protestant and Catholic? I know that religion wasn't a motivating factor in The Troubles, but I think I remember something along that line and it being a result of historical events. A weird "Protestant vs Catholic" thing even though it wasn't because they were Protestant or Catholics.
Edit: damn butterfingers on a mobile phone...
Even though the two sides ended up divided largely on religious lines for a variety of historical, political, and economic reasons the conflict was never really fueled by a religious element.
.
