Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

@Stanman: I started noticing "Christianist" pop up several years ago. I think its an attempt to differentiate "mainstream Christians" from the nutjobs.

The media did the same thing with "Islamist" after 9-11 (I think). A way to talk about extremist Muslims, without using the word Muslim. Both are kind of silly IMO.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I'd say Christianity in the US has shown that it wants special treatment at least in so far as being able to openly discriminate.

I mean, it's a far cry from shooting people, don't get me wrong. But let's not pretend Islam is the only religion in the world that wants special treatment.

If you are referring to the Hobby Lobby case, thats not a case of the Christian wanting to discriminate, its wanting to stop discrimination against Christians. Forcing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to their belief is wrong.

I'm not. I'm referring to places that want to make it legal for businesses to discriminate against gay people because of religious beliefs.

Is that the continuation of the wedding cake story?

I do think its wrong to discriminate on employment for any reason. But I think I should have the right to refuse service to someone for any reason. If I have a business I should be allowed to pick and choose which customers I serve.

I do admit that some special privilege is often asked by Christians, and in many cases its crossing a line. But they're all so minor in comparison to the outrageous demands of Muslims in european countries, and the actions of Jihadists. The comparison is intellectually lazy and speaks to an agenda.

I believe the wedding cake is what spurred the whole thing, yes.

And as to your last paragraph, I even made concessions in my original post that the magnitude of each incident was nowhere close. I only responded since your "demanding that they receive special legal treatment is about as different from Christian Evangelism as you could get". Christian Evangelists demand special treatment all the time. From "we're going to cancel all Holiday displays because omg those other religions want in", to "10 commandments on government property totally doesn't break the first amendment guyz!", to "we should totally be able to tell gays to frell off, because our book says so".

Lets be reasonable about holiday displays. Nobody else shares our holiday, demanding equal representation on our holiday is just confrontation and intimidation. We don't demand displays in other people's holiday celebrations. If Atheists want their own holiday they're welcome to it, just leave our holidays the alone.

 jasper76 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Yes, but as you admit they're such an incredible minority they should be ignored as irrelevant. Also for the record IIRC nobody was actually hurt in those bombings, that were actually religiously motivated. A nutjob, who happens to be a Christian, who bombs something doesn't mean the bombing was a result of religion. You might as well claim that a guy who robs a bank did it because he also plays GTA.

I concede its a minority, however I do indeed know of one case where a doctor was indeed murdered.

Just out of curiosity, if you think abortion clinic bombers are not inspired by religion, what do you think they were inspired by?

Are you saying that it's impossible to be an Atheist and be pro-life?

Actually no, I'm not. I sort of have pro-life tendencies, although I wouldn't dream of inposing that choice on anyone else. I've never ever heard of an atheist abortion clinic bomber though.

Good point.

I can only remember of a sniper who shot an abortionist in Florida... and he was a religious nutter.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

If Muslims are just preaching, thats fine.

Killing people and demanding that they receive special legal treatment is about as different from Christian Evangelism as you could get.

You might as well claim that MTG and 40k are the same thing just because they're both games.

You are aware that Christina "Evangelists" have bombed abortion clinics and government buildings, right? Not saying this strain of Christianity is mainstream, or anything, but its there.

And good lord, Christians are seeking special legal treatment all the friggin time (Christian prayer in schools, creationism in schools, etc.).

Shall we tally up the numbers of Christian vs Islamic terror attacks in the past 12 months?

Before all this went down. Anyone in France LEO/Military thought if they went through a "Train the Trainers" and since been back have trained individuals? Second group seemed trained as well. How far the training cascaded
down.

Edit

Careful for Red has an Eagle Eye

New World and Missionary work 500 years ago is not in play today

@ Litcheur: that was very interesting, seeing as I and probably most Americans have very little knowledge about what life is like in France.

I've often wondered if radical Islam is sort of like "rock-and-roll" for disaffected youth. Something against the mainstream that gives them a sense of belonging and identity they're not finding in their society.

@Shadow Captain: You are assuming I am saying Christian extremist events occur at the same frequency as Muslim extremist events, when I have specifically stated that modern Christianity has been domesticated, and that violent Christian extremism is outside of mainstream Christianity (at least in the West...Africa seems to be a different story altogether)

[Wishful thinking]

The police moved into the factory, with impact rounds. If they kill, they kill, but perhaps they wont. With proper trauma care its easy to survive gunshot wounds nowadays, if you targets isn't finished off on the ground.

Hostage safe, thats the main thing, two terrorists down, with sucking chest wounds.

Officially dead.

Trauma team is on site, first they attend to the hostage and any care needed for the assault team, but that is unlikely, as they chose the timing of when to assault the factory.

Then they see if they can patch up one or more of the scum for interrogation, and if the Elysee palace decides, a trial.

Go easy on the anaesthetic.

[/Wishful thinking]

 Orlanth wrote:
[Wishful thinking]

The police moved into the factory, with impact rounds. If they kill, they kill, but perhaps they wont. With proper trauma care its easy to survive gunshot wounds nowadays, if you targets isn't finished off on the ground.

Hostage safe, thats the main thing, two terrorists down, with sucking chest wounds.

Officially dead.

Trauma team is on site, first they attend to the hostage and any care needed for the assault team, but that is unlikely, as they chose the timing of when to assault the factory.

Then they see if they can patch up one or more of the scum for interrogation, and if the Elysee palace decides, a trial.

Go easy on the anaesthetic.

[/Wishful thinking]

How far an interrogation are they willing to go is the question. If they catch one alive.

 stanman wrote:

"Christianist"? Is that even a word?

Well, as much as "Islamist" is, I guess. I mean, they both seem to be used to describe the same mindset.

I think the state has extended its hand over far too many things. The state should not be a tool to drive our moral values, what we say & what we think. It certainly shouldn't be able to force anybody to do more than tolerate anybody else. At that point you're on the path to totalitarianism. The growing tyranny of the left where everybody can do what they want and say what they want but you better not criticise it or think beyond the realms of thought laid down by the state because that's not allowed.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I think the state has extended its hand over far too many things. The state should not be a tool to drive our moral values, what we say & what we think. It certainly shouldn't be able to force anybody to do more than tolerate anybody else. At that point you're on the path to totalitarianism. The growing tyranny of the left where everybody can do what they want and say what they want but you better not criticise it or think beyond the realms of thought laid down by the state because that's not allowed.

Considering one of the tenants of Free Speech IS to criticize the state, I'm not sure you even understand what you're railing against.

Is anyone else surprised that a girl/woman is allegedly involved in this? Is this something new?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
I think the state has extended its hand over far too many things. The state should not be a tool to drive our moral values, what we say & what we think. It certainly shouldn't be able to force anybody to do more than tolerate anybody else. At that point you're on the path to totalitarianism. The growing tyranny of the left where everybody can do what they want and say what they want but you better not criticise it or think beyond the realms of thought laid down by the state because that's not allowed.

Considering one of the tenants of Free Speech IS to criticize the state, I'm not sure you even understand what you're railing against.

How do you practice free speech when the State takes away your ability to speak?

 daedalus wrote:

 stanman wrote:

"Christianist"? Is that even a word?

Well, as much as "Islamist" is, I guess. I mean, they both seem to be used to describe the same mindset.

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.
Even Westboro Baptists don't support them.

It's just individual fethwits with guns and there are plenty of those about in America.

Westboro Baptists require a response, but there is a valid denial of reponsibility from Christianity in general for the abortion clinic murderers.

In a way the cartoon is unfair, the Militant Islamists can be seen as a subfaction, the militant Christians image should have been replaced by a WBC supporter. Otherwise the atheist in the third image replaced by the lone wolf atheist nut who kills religious people. Sure no atheist group accepts them, but they do exist.

 jasper76 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that a girl/woman is allegedly involved in this? Is this something new?

No.

Plenty of female terrorists, even of the Islamic variety. Hell, in Iraq the bad guys would rape or otherwise abuse females and then use their shame to turn them into suicide bombers.

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

 Orlanth wrote:
Otherwise the atheist in the third image replaced by the lone wolf atheist nut who kills religious people. Sure no atheist group accepts them, but they do exist.

Or one of the ALF types.

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that a girl/woman is allegedly involved in this? Is this something new?

No.

Plenty of female terrorists, even of the Islamic variety. Hell, in Iraq the bad guys would rape or otherwise abuse females and then use their shame to turn them into suicide bombers.

Disgusting.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

Can you post links to a few of those videos?

 Jihadin wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
[Wishful thinking]

The police moved into the factory, with impact rounds. If they kill, they kill, but perhaps they wont. With proper trauma care its easy to survive gunshot wounds nowadays, if you targets isn't finished off on the ground.

Hostage safe, thats the main thing, two terrorists down, with sucking chest wounds.

Officially dead.

Trauma team is on site, first they attend to the hostage and any care needed for the assault team, but that is unlikely, as they chose the timing of when to assault the factory.

Then they see if they can patch up one or more of the scum for interrogation, and if the Elysee palace decides, a trial.

Go easy on the anaesthetic.

[/Wishful thinking]

How far an interrogation are they willing to go is the question. If they catch one alive.

I am generally up with the whole human rights thing, but if you catch an officially dead terrorist shooter, as opposed to sympathiser, I have zero problems with holding him for questioning for as long as it takes.

 CptJake wrote:

Or one of the ALF types.

There better not be any ALF types still. Seriously, that show was pretty lame even when it was on.

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that a girl/woman is allegedly involved in this? Is this something new?

No.

Plenty of female terrorists, even of the Islamic variety. Hell, in Iraq the bad guys would rape or otherwise abuse females and then use their shame to turn them into suicide bombers.

That threw everyone for a loop when they did that. No one expects a female suicide bomber till it happens. Then the kid in Afghanistan was another mental screw over.

Still though. Anyone over there hearing if their rounding up their (the brothers) entire social network?

 Orlanth wrote:

Westboro Baptists require a response,
.

There were responses...

WBC were protesting Kevin Smith's RedState movie... he held a counter-protest.

That's the one of the "right way" counter them.

Its a good day for taking out the trash.




http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/01/09/uk-usa-security-imam-sentencing-idUKKBN0KI1V220150109

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that a girl/woman is allegedly involved in this? Is this something new?

No.

Plenty of female terrorists, even of the Islamic variety. Hell, in Iraq the bad guys would rape or otherwise abuse females and then use their shame to turn them into suicide bombers.

Don't forget they also like to use children to be sent out as living bombs.


Some of women might do it by choice because of religious and political beliefs, others are forced into helping by threats against their families. The terrorist have absolutely no shame in selecting who they opt to murder in order to reach their goals. They beat their chests about their bravery and courage in which they pursue their faith but will hide behind women and children whenever it suits them.

 Orlanth wrote:

Westboro Baptists require a response,

The Patriot Guard Riders and similar groups were created as a direct response to those crap bags.

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

Can you post links to a few of those videos?

Army of God, for one:

Please note, I am not saying this stuff is mainstream.

 whembly wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

Westboro Baptists require a response,
.

There were responses...

WBC were protesting Kevin Smith's RedState movie... he held a counter-protest.

Spoiler:

That's the one of the "right way" counter them.

OK thats awesome

The KKK is a self-proclaimed Christian group and have done a lot of fairly disgusting things over the years. in the 20s, they were thought to have been as large as 5% of the US population.

I mean, sure, no one else is cool with them, but I don't know if that really means anything, at the end of the day.

 jasper76 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

Can you post links to a few of those videos?

Army of God, for one:

Spoiler:

Please note, I am not saying this stuff is mainstream.

I don;t have time to watch over an hour of video. At what time stamp do they show the pastor at the pulpit preaching for folks to kill? I'm sure it is there, just want to be able to skip to it.