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Can anyone identify these guns? The ones that appear to be wood.



I know next to nothing about firearms, these just struck me as appearing somewhat outdated, like WW2 carbines and rifles.

 daedalus wrote:
The KKK is a self-proclaimed Christian group and have done a lot of fairly disgusting things over the years. in the 20s, they were thought to have been as large as 5% of the US population.

I mean, sure, no one else is cool with them, but I don't know if that really means anything, at the end of the day.

Since the 20's have they shrunk or grown? What is their level of funding like in the last decade and how many ops have the pulled off/how many folks have they killed in the last decade? In the last decade, have they done anything as 'successful' as what we just saw in France?

 CptJake wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

Westboro Baptists require a response,

The Patriot Guard Riders and similar groups were created as a direct response to those crap bags.

Cropped comment getting repeated replies.

Yes yes, there have been plenty of responses to the WBC, and it's an ongoing action.

 jasper76 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

Can you post links to a few of those videos?

Army of God, for one:

Spoiler:

Please note, I am not saying this stuff is mainstream.

Disappointed really, the local churches should have been the first to get on their feet and help shut these freaks down. I wonder if they were (not seen the full video).
One of my biggest beefs with Islamic fundamentalism is how it can hide in moderate Islamic communities, who have a moral duty to expose these people to law enforcement.

Not happy at all to have to retract the comment that there is no such thing as a jihadist equivalent Christian(esque) denomination. But it looks like redneck territory, should I really be so surprised.

They do look like a M1 carbine but....it doesn't seem right in this day and age...




Ruger Mini 14's they are

Edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

I was gonna say those guns look like M1s, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. Whether or not they are still up to date and regular use is past my reach.

 CptJake wrote:
At what time stamp do they show the pastor at the pulpit preaching for folks to kill?

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking for. Actually, neither of those videos do include people on pulpits preaching to organized congregations to go out and kill, but this film is what I was thinking of when I said such. So I was wrong about that, and apologize for it.

Anyway, Army of God is an extremist Christian org that does condone violence.

If you ever have time to watch the film, it is a good documentary.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

The IRA used to go to training camps in Libya, if I remember correctly.

 CptJake wrote:
Since the 20's have they shrunk or grown? What is their level of funding like in the last decade and how many ops have the pulled off/how many folks have they killed in the last decade? In the last decade, have they done anything as 'successful' as what we just saw in France?

According to wikipedia, thankfully many less people, and nothing really that comes to mind of major significance beyond a few shootings and lynchings here and there in the last 20 years or so.

Perhaps Militant Islam will also see the same thing happen 70 years into the future.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Can anyone identify these guns? The ones that appear to be wood.

I know next to nothing about firearms, these just struck me as appearing somewhat outdated, like WW2 carbines and rifles.

M-14 they use the same ammo as a modern M-4 or M-16 and will still kill somebody plenty dead. The only reason they are somewhat "dated" is a smaller magazine capacity and a wooden stock which is heavier than one made from ballistic nylon or carbon fiber. You don't need a scary black weapon look for it to be a highly effective military rifle. Airborne/paratrooper version has a pistol grip with a folding stock, others have a standard hunting rifle stock. You can also fit it with a much larger magazine if desired.

If it's good enough for the A-Team well it's good enough for anybody

 Jihadin wrote:
Still though. Anyone over there hearing if their rounding up their (the brothers) entire social network?

Yesterday at least seven people were arrested in connection with the two brothers, might have been more but the media has (understandably) been almost completely focussed on both sieges.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

The IRA used to go to training camps in Libya, if I remember correctly.

IRA and other terror groups involved in the Troubles were never really about religion. There is a supposed Catholic and Protestant thing, but the real root is racial sectarianism.

AFAIK the IRA didn't kill anyone for being Protestant, they did kill people for being part of the Unionist faction, or English. There are extremist clerics on both sides but again its a racial divide. The denominational differences dont come into it, though they did in history, and the historical consequences are what are remembered.

 Orlanth wrote:


IRA and other terror groups involved in the Troubles were never really about religion. There is a supposed Catholic and Protestant thing, but the real root is racial sectarianism.

AFAIK the IRA didn't kill anyone for being Protestant, they did kill people for being part of the Unionist faction, or English. There are extremist clerics on both sides but again its a racial divide. The denominational differences dont come into it, though they did in history, and the historical consequences are what are remembered.

Oh yeah, unification was officially their main aim. But they definitely had religion mixed up in it.

And then there were cases of people being killed just for being protestant, such as the Kingsmill massacre in which IRA members shot a load of protestant Ulster workmen, leaving the catholic unharmed. IRA leaders denied they ordered it but it was nevertheless carried out by members of their organisation.

 stanman wrote:

Some of women might do it by choice because of religious and political beliefs, others are forced into helping by threats against their families. The terrorist have absolutely no shame in selecting who they opt to murder in order to reach their goals. They beat their chests about their bravery and courage in which they pursue their faith but will hide behind women and children whenever it suits them.

And, in this case, probably felt they were courageous by shooting unarmed and unsuspecting civilians.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Spoiler:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

The IRA used to go to training camps in Libya, if I remember correctly.

Gadaffi funded the IRA didn't he?

I'm not sure about monetary funding, but Gaddafi's government did indeed supply arms to the IRA.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Spoiler:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

In all fairness the sort of 'Christian' who murders people at abortion clinics is a lone nutcase.
There is no camp to train at, no underground priest abroad mounting a crusade on abortionists, no dodgy denomination.

I don't buy this. Hell, I've seen clips on youtube of preachers telling congregations stuff like "if the law won't bring justice to these baby murderers, maybe its about time we tyake things into our own hands".

And I have little doubt that fringe right-wing militia groups, who do train, have Christianity mixed up into the equation.

The IRA used to go to training camps in Libya, if I remember correctly.

Gadaffi funded the IRA didn't he?

Yup. And supplied them.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
The worst thing is that SD, a political party in Sweden, are blaiming muslims for this.

Well, it wasn't committed by Pastafarians now, was it?

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Can anyone identify these guns? The ones that appear to be wood.

Spoiler:

I know next to nothing about firearms, these just struck me as appearing somewhat outdated, like WW2 carbines and rifles.

I swear those look lilke some tweaked version of a Ruger Mini14. I really like the second to last where he is walking with the barrel levelled right at the cop next to him.

 Matthew wrote:

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

(uncomfortable silence)

 Matthew wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
The worst thing is that SD, a political party in Sweden, are blaiming muslims for this.

Well, it wasn't committed by Pastafarians now, was it?

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

Apples and oranges. It is probably better to compare modern Islam to medieval Christianity.

Mini Ruger 14.

Edit

That slot you see in the stock is for the strap for a single or double connect weapon harness

 Matthew wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
The worst thing is that SD, a political party in Sweden, are blaiming muslims for this.

Well, it wasn't committed by Pastafarians now, was it?

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

If these types of attacks were rare and isolated instances, you'd have a point. But they're very very common, and only appear to be increasing in frequency.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
The worst thing is that SD, a political party in Sweden, are blaiming muslims for this.

Well, it wasn't committed by Pastafarians now, was it?

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

If these types of attacks were rare and isolated instances, you'd have a point. But they're very very common, and only appear to be increasing in frequency.

Every time something like this happens, the "No True Muslim" Fallacy (See: No True Scotsman) is trotted out.


If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... and prays like a duck...

Al Qaeda in Yemen is now taking credit for orchestrating this.

From what I read, these men got training there.

 djones520 wrote:
Al Qaeda in Yemen is now taking credit for orchestrating this.

From what I read, these men got training there.

Funding to

 CptJake wrote:

I don;t have time to watch over an hour of video. At what time stamp do they show the pastor at the pulpit preaching for folks to kill? I'm sure it is there, just want to be able to skip to it.

Most of it is painfully tongue and cheek, because they know they're on video, but 55:05 has a reverend saying to the camera something along the lines of that if if a fetus is a baby, then an abortionist is a mass murderer, and their position is to stop them, even if it means killing them. He's not literally in front of a pulpit though. Still plenty of people making me super uncomfortable in the video though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He then goes on to talk about supporting the murder of Supreme Court justices and the use of chemical and biological weapons.

He appears to be a reverend that supports the murder of any number of human beings necessary to prevent the murder of any number of human beings.

 Jihadin wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Al Qaeda in Yemen is now taking credit for orchestrating this.

From what I read, these men got training there.

Funding to

The other man, from the second siege, claimed he was aligned with ISIS.

 daedalus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

I don;t have time to watch over an hour of video. At what time stamp do they show the pastor at the pulpit preaching for folks to kill? I'm sure it is there, just want to be able to skip to it.

Most of it is painfully tongue and cheek, because they know they're on video, but 55:05 has a reverend saying to the camera something along the lines of that if if a fetus is a baby, then an abortionist is a mass murderer, and their position is to stop them, even if it means killing them. He's not literally in front of a pulpit though. Still plenty of people making me super uncomfortable in the video though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He then goes on to talk about supporting the murder of Supreme Court justices and the use of chemical and biological weapons.

He appears to be a reverend that supports the murder of any number of human beings necessary to prevent the murder of any number of human beings.

It's also probable that what hrs willing to say on film is a toned down version of what he's willing to say off camera in front of his congregation.

I mean, supporting domestic chemical or biological attacks is no small thing to admit...and one can only hope the government is watching this preacher and his congregation very very very carefully (assuming he's still alive)

 Matthew wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
The worst thing is that SD, a political party in Sweden, are blaiming muslims for this.

Well, it wasn't committed by Pastafarians now, was it?

Saying that this is Islam's fault is like saying a single murder by a fanatical Christian is Christianitys fault.

No, you are wrong.

Islam preaches death as a punishment for those that commit idolatrous acts like drawing images of their prophet.

This was definitively Islam's fault.


What this wasn't was the fault of all Muslims like the extreme right parties are trying to imply, especially because several Muslims were killed in the attack and because at least one Muslim died because he believed in our values of freedom of speech.

One of the things that has only been mentioned in a couple of news sources and only took the headline of one (The Daily Star of all papers) was:

One of the two policemen killed on the first day was a Muslim.
I also read a report that said one of the people killed in the newspaper office was as well.

I tend to like to avoid the political threads but it seems to me that if the media were to highlight this more, that perhaps they can help show that these guys were attacking Islam as well, that perhaps, some kids mentioned in Litcheur's fascinating post may choose against starting down that path.