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 BaronIveagh wrote:
Because I'm actually from the Seneca Nation of Indians.

That is pretty cool. I did not even knew this existed.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Because I'm actually from the Seneca Nation of Indians.

That is pretty cool. I did not even knew this existed.

Yeah... this pretty cool Baron...

So, are you saying that be default, you have a dual-citizenship? (Seneca + USA)

 whembly wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Because I'm actually from the Seneca Nation of Indians.

That is pretty cool. I did not even knew this existed.

Yeah... this pretty cool Baron...

So, are you saying that be default, you have a dual-citizenship? (Seneca + USA)

Um they are. Citizenship of the Tribe and Citizenship of the Land. This goes all the way back to the treaties and Immigration Laws

Other than tribal ID cards I don't think that I have heard of any tribe issuing passports or anything to that extend though.

From my (limited) experience most tribal members would be considered "American" when dealing with other governments and use their US citizenship for those kind of purposes.

Tribal/US issues are always a very interesting and fascinating topic.

The Iroquois have actually issued passports, but from what I've read, they aren't accepted by anyone, and when they've been used to travel the holders have run into problems and been denied access or visas.

 Hordini wrote:
The Iroquois have actually issued passports, but from what I've read, they aren't accepted by anyone, and when they've been used to travel the holders have run into problems and been denied access or visas.

For some reason I was thinking that the one tribe that did wasn't actually a recognized tribe, but now I'll have to look into that some more...

Edit: Looks like it goes back into the "Country" vs "nation" argument that often gets pretty blurry.

Edit Edit: And the tribe is in fact recognized, so I was thinking about some other issue.

So from some sales this week planned of up to 5 million, from asnormal sales according to daily mail of 30,000

Yep they made them world famous.

 Ahtman wrote:
Eh, what the hell.

Ultra Orthodox Newspaper Photoshops Female Leaders Out of Charlie Hebdo March Photo

... Maybe that's how they think Frenchmen dress

I'm buying a copy if I can find one near me. Just for the sake of thumbing my nose at fascism.

 whembly wrote:

So, are you saying that by default, you have a dual-citizenship? (Seneca + USA)

It's slightly more complicated than that, but without writing a wall of text, yes. We're exempt from a lot of taxes, and sign up for selective service due to the terms of treaty rather than US law. We are not eligible for 'Obamacare' (which we mostly don't actually care, because we have our own health system, plus BIA subsidies). The Seneca are one of the few nations to have an actual treaty that recognizes us as a wholly separate national state, rather than a 'tribe' (we had our own lawyers, even though the terms still sucked).

Unfortunately, we're like Luxembourg, we're tiny. But we're growing and have almost paid off our national debt, something some other countries wish they could say. Part of our arraignment with the US is that we can buy back land we previously sold and reincorporate it into the SNI. I don't think they pictured us repurchasing big swaths of downtown Buffalo. Most of you will be horrified that our government, rather than taxing it's citizens, funds its operation through ownership or partnership in a variety of businesses, as well as the money on the various cities we lease. (how this lease payment is handled varies by location. Salamanca passes it on to the homeowners in lieu of property taxes)

Relapse wrote:
It's too bad Nigeria can't get the level of global outrage that was generated in France.

Rape and murder ten thousand native civvies, and it's Tuesday. Behead one (preferably white) American, and the airstrikes are on their way.

 reds8n wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Eh, what the hell.

Ultra Orthodox Newspaper Photoshops Female Leaders Out of Charlie Hebdo March Photo

... Maybe that's how they think Frenchmen dress

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

Ah PhantomViper, back again. Think please.
It is a dreaded fate indeed. Ask anyone whom understands the history of the Soviet Union.

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

These aren't "hardline Israelis," they're ULTRA ORTHODOX Israelis, who don't work, don't serve in the military, don't really pay taxes, and do not reflect the views, beliefs, or attitudes of the majority of Israelis They're the Jewish equivalent of Taliban, but far less violent. Beyond that, their decision to photoshop out women, while stupid, has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians. You'll have to find a new way to bash Israel - this one is a stretch, even for you.

Wow. The attack is Israel fault from Jimmy Carter perception

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-extends-airstrikes-iraq-islamic-state-group-28195475

France's lower house of Parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved extending French airstrikes against the Islamic State group in Iraq.

The vote came after France's worst terrorist attacks in decades. Last week in Paris, a man claiming allegiance to the Islamic State group killed four people in a kosher grocery and a policewoman, while two brothers that he knew for years claimed ties to al-Qaida in Yemen as they killed 12 people at a newspaper office.

"France is at war with terrorism, jihadism and radical Islamism," Prime Minister Manuel Valls told the National Assembly to thundering applause ahead of the vote. "France is not at war with a religion. France is not at war with Islam and Muslims."

The vote was 488 to 1. One lawmaker argued not to extend the campaign, saying the situation on the ground was improving and warning that more bombing could invite more extremist violence but the government and other lawmakers vigorously defended the campaign.

France quickly joined the United States in conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State group last year after the militants took over sections of Iraq and Syria. French law requires a vote on extending such operations after four months. France is not bombing in Syria.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

These aren't "hardline Israelis," they're ULTRA ORTHODOX Israelis, who don't work, don't serve in the military, don't really pay taxes, and do not reflect the views, beliefs, or attitudes of the majority of Israelis They're the Jewish equivalent of Taliban, but far less violent. Beyond that, their decision to photoshop out women, while stupid, has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians. You'll have to find a new way to bash Israel - this one is a stretch, even for you.

Whenever I see news stories on Reddit about those Ultra Orthodox guys, there's always people saying "I'm an Israeli and even I don't like them."

Usually in response to one of those news stories involving planes and delaying them for hours over seating...

 MrDwhitey wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

These aren't "hardline Israelis," they're ULTRA ORTHODOX Israelis, who don't work, don't serve in the military, don't really pay taxes, and do not reflect the views, beliefs, or attitudes of the majority of Israelis They're the Jewish equivalent of Taliban, but far less violent. Beyond that, their decision to photoshop out women, while stupid, has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians. You'll have to find a new way to bash Israel - this one is a stretch, even for you.

Whenever I see news stories on Reddit about those Ultra Orthodox guys, there's always people saying "I'm an Israeli and even I don't like them."

Usually in response to one of those news stories involving planes and delaying them for hours over seating...

In general they are viewed by Israelis as social leeches and a necessary evil to keep the Jewish birth rate up. We had a platoon of religious Israelis in my company (these ones actually DID serve, so they're like the seal team 6 of orthodox Jews) and they were awful. They were OK soldiers when gak got real but they were obnoxious, self righteous and lazy....truly insufferable human beings.

Even in the military they are afforded special treatment - while they go pray all of the other soldiers have to shoulder their responsibilities. Also if you have a high number of religious soldiers in your unit your probability of being issued ishu zakan (permission to grow a beard) drops. One main reason I left the military was that they revoked ishu zakan from all non religious soldiers in my unit...that's fething BS. Granting special treatment to any and all groups on the basis of religion is discrimination in its truest form.

SugarZaza made some animated series about them, called “The Shtreimels”.
I do not think I can link them here because it involves a lot of profanity (well, SugarZaza!), but you can find it on YouTube where it was originally released and it is extremely fun.

 Orlanth wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

Ah PhantomViper, back again. Think please.
It is a dreaded fate indeed. Ask anyone whom understands the history of the Soviet Union.

People in the Soviet Union "disappeared" from photos usually after they were murdered by the state, I don't think that anyone would have such a problem with the practice if it didn't involve actually killing the concerned persons...

But hey, don't let actual facts interfere with your narrative of the world, keep on fighting the good fight brother!

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

Ah PhantomViper, back again. Think please.
It is a dreaded fate indeed. Ask anyone whom understands the history of the Soviet Union.

People in the Soviet Union "disappeared" from photos usually after they were murdered by the state, I don't think that anyone would have such a problem with the practice if it didn't involve actually killing the concerned persons...

But hey, don't let actual facts interfere with your narrative of the world, keep on fighting the good fight brother!

I would have a problem with it even if it did involve the guilty party.
However, comparing Israel to the USSR due to the actions of a small religious sect that hold no real power is a bit of a stretch.
Especially when the Haredi were opposed to the creation of Israel to begin with.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

These aren't "hardline Israelis," they're ULTRA ORTHODOX Israelis, who don't work, don't serve in the military, don't really pay taxes, and do not reflect the views, beliefs, or attitudes of the majority of Israelis They're the Jewish equivalent of Taliban, but far less violent. Beyond that, their decision to photoshop out women, while stupid, has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians. You'll have to find a new way to bash Israel - this one is a stretch, even for you.

While they are not suicide bombers these radicals do cause social problems and have an unhealthy contempt for others. They are in a way a microcosm of the worst facets of Israel in general, but Israelis notice the difference as the people they show total contempt for are other Israelis.
You fail to grasp the salient points, what the ultra orthodox are to other Jews most Israelis (but very clearly not all) are to the 'goyim'

If a section of society is willing to airbrush out other sections of society. What does that say about that society. Israel is well down the slippery slope

However it is nice to see Nuggz appreciate that the extremists are different from the general population. We have been waiting a while for him to have this epiphany. So next time an extremist sends a rocket into Israel and Israel 'responds' with large scale airstrikes or artillery strikes, he will know to condemn the overreaction like any reasonable person would. I wont hold my breath waiting for such a U turn though.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

No no. Now its murder by PhotoShop

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

Yes, death by airbrush, that most dreaded of fates!

Ah PhantomViper, back again. Think please.
It is a dreaded fate indeed. Ask anyone whom understands the history of the Soviet Union.

People in the Soviet Union "disappeared" from photos usually after they were murdered by the state, I don't think that anyone would have such a problem with the practice if it didn't involve actually killing the concerned persons...

But hey, don't let actual facts interfere with your narrative of the world, keep on fighting the good fight brother!

You miss the point, no surprise there.
Propaganda works by controlling information, and in turn this skews action along the lines of moral truth rather than actual.
The best standpoints for a real democratic society is to maintain a freedom and integrity of the press and to prevent dangerous propaganda from rewiring the populace.

As this isn't happening, Israelis are being conditioned to accept airbrushing out of unwanted truths. This is how they can believe such racist and bigoted twaddle as the old rallying cry:

"A people with no land, for a land with no people."

In case you hadn't noticed there are people in the land. However if you airbrush them out the moral truth is easier to enforce.

 MrDwhitey wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

These aren't "hardline Israelis," they're ULTRA ORTHODOX Israelis, who don't work, don't serve in the military, don't really pay taxes, and do not reflect the views, beliefs, or attitudes of the majority of Israelis They're the Jewish equivalent of Taliban, but far less violent. Beyond that, their decision to photoshop out women, while stupid, has absolutely nothing to do with Palestinians. You'll have to find a new way to bash Israel - this one is a stretch, even for you.

Whenever I see news stories on Reddit about those Ultra Orthodox guys, there's always people saying "I'm an Israeli and even I don't like them."

Usually in response to one of those news stories involving planes and delaying them for hours over seating...

Thery have religious views that they can't touch women, photo them and such evidently.

 Orlanth wrote:


You miss the point, no surprise there.

I missed the point because, as usual, the point that you are trying to make isn't substantiated by facts.

 Orlanth wrote:

Propaganda works by controlling information, and in turn this skews action along the lines of moral truth rather than actual.
The best standpoints for a real democratic society is to maintain a freedom and integrity of the press and to prevent dangerous propaganda from rewiring the populace.

Completely and 100% agree with this.

 Orlanth wrote:

As this isn't happening, Israelis are being conditioned to accept airbrushing out of unwanted truths. This is how they can believe such racist and bigoted twaddle as the old rallying cry:

"A people with no land, for a land with no people."

In case you hadn't noticed there are people in the land. However if you airbrush them out the moral truth is easier to enforce.

And here is where facts collide with your particular world view, again.

Israelis aren't being conditioned to accept anything, as you've already been told by several people, this is a ultra-orthodox newspaper, without any relevance to actual Israeli society and whose religious rules prohibits them from publishing pictures of women.

To even try and link such a piece with any actual policy regarding the treatment of Palestinians in Israel is... well, I would probably be banned from OT for stating what I think about that.

 Orlanth wrote:
If hardline Israelis are willing to airbrush out the female population, even those of their own kind.
I wonder what future they intend for the Palestinians.

So people should not judge all Muslims by the actions of a few extremists
The entire state of Israel should be judged by the actions of a few extremists

Israelis aren't being conditioned to accept anything, as you've already been told by several people, this is a ultra-orthodox newspaper, without any relevance to actual Israeli society and whose religious rules prohibits them from publishing pictures of women.

To even try and link such a piece with any actual policy regarding the treatment of Palestinians in Israel is... well, I would probably be banned from OT for stating what I think about that.

Indeed, Islam prohibits images of ALL people as well. Not seeing what the issue is. Thats their religious belief. I don't agree with it, but its not harming anyone.

I just had to log in to thank Orlanth for that excellent comedy routine.

Also, the ultra-orthodox Jews wan't to "erase" Palestinians so badly that they take western women out of the photos but leave the President of the Palestinian Authority in them...