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Ork lootas not having the Eavy Armour option.

lustigjh wrote:

 Tigramans wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Why don't CSM have vastly better equipment compared to normal space marines.
Their tech should be better because they took their stuff during the dark age of technology (when the tech was better than now). Did they just stash all those things away in favor of inferior tech?

No, most of them basically got screwed up and/or twisted by Ruinous Powers. And we already know what sorts of diddely they do.

There's also the presence of recent converts bringing modern tech

Also their tech isn't from the dark age of technology, it's from pre heresy to now. Nothing (bar the odd relics that crop up in the heresy books) is used from the dark age of technology. It's called the dark age for a reason.

Space Marines: Everything from the 4e book that has since been taken out.

Chaos Space Marines: More Cult units (Terminators, Bikes, Raptors, Havocs), better weapons for existing Cult units. Generic Daemon Weapons. A Land Raider that isn't bad.

Tau: Kroot Shaman (a psyker), some kind of short-ranged/assault unit (I created the Forlorn Hope, a Stealthsuit with WS4, a flamer that's a power weapon in assault, and a shield generator on the premise that even the Tau need to break into fortified bunkers/storm Space Hulks sometimes).

Eldar: Plastic Aspect Warriors, an Assault Vehicle, a Drop Pod equivalent.

Orks: 'Eavy armour on more units. A Stormboy Warboss.

Grey Knights: Probably three times as many guns as they have now. They're out to fight Chaos, not light infantry armies.

Sisters of Battle: Plastics. Their own Relic Predator and their own Flyer.

Daemons: Guns. I don't care what you call them but a Codex with no guns besides small arms and a Soul Grinder is doomed to failure if there's any kind of skew towards vehicles.

Dark Eldar: Holofields, Teleport Homer-equivalents.

Necrons, Tyranids: Fix what's already there, then we'll talk.

SM tacs don't get the option of taking a ccw. I find that silly. Would actually make them the all round jack of all trades, masters of none, like they are supposed to be. It's not game breaking either - chaos gets the option. On that note - CSM need a points deduction of 1ppm ATSKNF is worth at least 2pts not 1.


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 r_squared wrote:
Ork lootas not having the Eavy Armour option.

I think that option needs to be more army wide.

Why can't an autarch take Exarch weapons and powers? Mighty warrior of the eldar host, who has walked many warriors paths is forever condemned to never be able to match anything short of IG HQ in cc.

I'm annoyed by any army that forces it's sergeants to have pistol and ccw.

Chimeras should be allowed to buy autocannons without forgeworld.

I want my guardsman Marbo :((((

I wish leman russes could take lascannon sponsons.

There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

Dark angels are supposed to have a lot of plasma weaponry. Aside from the garbage land speeder and death wing having access to plasma cannons as heavy options, its really not very evident.

kodi wrote:


There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

You have to change the game rules, though. The only stat used in shooting is ballistic skill, and all it does is give you the same hit as any other model, there isn't anything like a critical hit to be gained from having higher bs. Maybe if there were you'd see HQ models with storm bolter + plasma pistol.

 r_squared wrote:
Ork lootas not having the Eavy Armour option.

Lootas not actually looting during the game. Why can't the steal weaponry or steal wrecked vehicles? Fix em up to 1HP and ride around and cause Hell?

Why aren't Warbosses more fierce on the battlefield? A Warboss should be horrifying to face, even for a Space Marine, but often is a joke and can get slaughtered in basically ANY challenge. Or, to more fair, he and whatever he challenges will more than likely kill EACH OTHER at the same time. The Warboss is such a pushover. Hell, the Warboss is OBLIGATED to take bodyguards constantly to each the challenge, when I WANT my Warboss in a challenge just to crush my foe in a bloody, klaw shredded mess. Instead, he hides like a grot and sends Steve to do it instead.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Tau: Kroot Shaman (a psyker), some kind of short-ranged/assault unit (I created the Forlorn Hope, a Stealthsuit with WS4, a flamer that's a power weapon in assault, and a shield generator on the premise that even the Tau need to break into fortified bunkers/storm Space Hulks sometimes).

On that subject: XV46 Vanguard Void Battlesuit. I'm thinking a stealth suit with a 2+ save, a heavy flamer, defensive grenades, and a AP2 power weapon. Why is this not a FW option?

Why can't Sternguards use Sternguard ammo in their bolt pistols and storm bolters? Why can't Imperial Fists use Bolter Drill with Sternguard ammunition? Blood Angels should be able to take a second CCW, as they are an assault-focused chapter. Why does the Baal Predator not have access to Lascannon Sponsons? Regular BA Predator Heavy Flamer Sponsons? Why can't the Land Raider replace its Heavy Bolter with an Assault Cannon? Razorback turrets are identical to Land Raider turrets, why can't the LR take TL Lascannons, TL Flamers or Las/Plas turrets?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Daemons: Guns. I don't care what you call them but a Codex with no guns besides small arms and a Soul Grinder is doomed to failure if there's any kind of skew towards vehicles.

Given the way GW's been going the last two editions, and, well, really every edition but 5th, Daemons don't have much to worry about. They certainly do more than fine right now

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Space Marines: Everything from the 4e book that has since been taken out.

So, two heavy weapon terminator squads, terminator command squads, tyrannic war veterans?

 Crazyterran wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Space Marines: Everything from the 4e book that has since been taken out.

So, two heavy weapon terminator squads, terminator command squads, tyrannic war veterans?

And veteran skills, Pistol/CCW Tac Marines, two-special-weapon Tac Marines, and the Shield of Faith but no cover option.


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 dementedwombat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Tau: Kroot Shaman (a psyker), some kind of short-ranged/assault unit (I created the Forlorn Hope, a Stealthsuit with WS4, a flamer that's a power weapon in assault, and a shield generator on the premise that even the Tau need to break into fortified bunkers/storm Space Hulks sometimes).

On that subject: XV46 Vanguard Void Battlesuit. I'm thinking a stealth suit with a 2+ save, a heavy flamer, defensive grenades, and a AP2 power weapon. Why is this not a FW option?

I did Forlorn Hope Fire Warriors for Aegis, they had Pulse Carbines and riot shields that made them slower but tougher front. Those would be cool too, sort of the 30k boarding assault squad theory.

Definitely DA having a disturbing lack of Plasma

 jreilly89 wrote:
Definitely DA having a disturbing lack of Plasma

If they don't get more plasma, they should at least be more adept at using what they've got. I would be okay with them being able to reroll Gets Hot.

Why can't flamers and blasts target invisible unit ? Be the best weapons TO fire at an invisible unit.

The ability to fire a plasma weapon on high or low power needs to return. The Gets Hot rule was introduced in the 2nd ed. Chaos codex for chaos marines alone ('cos they just don't care).

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Why can't flamers and blasts target invisible unit ? Be the best weapons TO fire at an invisible unit.

Oh god, I just remembered the huge Invis and Flamer Overwatch debate. Way too many pages for that thread


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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Definitely DA having a disturbing lack of Plasma

If they don't get more plasma, they should at least be more adept at using what they've got. I would be okay with them being able to reroll Gets Hot.

Something. Regular SM get Bolter Drill, why can't DA have Plasma Drill?

1) All GK vehicles that have Assault Cannons should be able to upgrade them to Psycannons.

2) Grandmasters and all Librarians(every codex) should all gain a wound. No way should a junior IG officer have 50% more wounds than a space marine character, least of all Librarians. *not really an option, but its something that needs to happen.

3) GK Chaplains!

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Space Marines: Everything from the 4e book that has since been taken out.

So, two heavy weapon terminator squads, terminator command squads, tyrannic war veterans?

And veteran skills, Pistol/CCW Tac Marines, two-special-weapon Tac Marines, and the Shield of Faith but no cover option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dementedwombat wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Tau: Kroot Shaman (a psyker), some kind of short-ranged/assault unit (I created the Forlorn Hope, a Stealthsuit with WS4, a flamer that's a power weapon in assault, and a shield generator on the premise that even the Tau need to break into fortified bunkers/storm Space Hulks sometimes).

On that subject: XV46 Vanguard Void Battlesuit. I'm thinking a stealth suit with a 2+ save, a heavy flamer, defensive grenades, and a AP2 power weapon. Why is this not a FW option?

I did Forlorn Hope Fire Warriors for Aegis, they had Pulse Carbines and riot shields that made them slower but tougher front. Those would be cool too, sort of the 30k boarding assault squad theory.

The veteran skills were not worth it for the most part, and the old trait system was garbage. Space sharks get the bp/ccw thing, space wolves have their special 2 specials squads, and let's not steal anymore SOB things, I mean forge world already gives us their melta Razorbacks.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
<LONG>

The veteran skills were not worth it for the most part, and the old trait system was garbage. Space sharks get the bp/ccw thing, space wolves have their special 2 specials squads, and let's not steal anymore SOB things, I mean forge world already gives us their melta Razorbacks.

The trait system and the veteran skills in their prior incarnation of course not, but they were interesting and characterful and could easily be balanced for proper play.

As to taking away anyone else's toys the Shield of Faith but no cover thing was mostly a joke, it was in the SM book and hadn't been mentioned, it wouldn't actually do much. If you're going to hand two-special Tac squads to one SM First Founding Chapter lorewise Salamaders are higher on the list than Space Wolves, the bolt pistol/CCW Tacs ought to be an option for more than just one obscure FW Chapter (can you honestly look me in the eye and with a straight face tell me Blood Angels ought to have dedicated shooting units only for their Troops selection?).

For Sisters there are long, long threads in Proposed Rules dealing with what they ought to have but don't; bikes, their own Flyers (fighting air-to-air with multi-melta batteries!), alternate Exorcist ammunition, Relic Predators (at the very least the Flamestorm and Melta-Cannon versions), an overhaul to Acts of Faith, Ecclesiarchy troops (fanatical militia warbands), and a Chariot that looks roughly like http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Servath+Reznik%2C+Wrath+of+Ages are my favourite suggestions.

Nids: Why are the enhanced senses, feeder tendrils and armored carapace upgrades missing but we still have all the bits we need for them in the kits?

Sisters: Why everything regarding their treatment.

Come on, there are plenty of bits that have never, or no longer, had rules associated with them. Nids aren't alone in that.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Come on, there are plenty of bits that have never, or no longer, had rules associated with them. Nids aren't alone in that.

While true, this is a "options that should be there but aren't" thread and if it's in the kit it should be in the rules.

It's not like any of the biomorphs that I mentioned were game breaking and most were pretty points heavy. But having them there was still nice because it made the Hive Fleet feel a little more like it really did try to adapt and change to match it's prey.

My models can use their pistols in combat, but can't fire them in combat. Apparently they just try to bludgeon people with them or something.

kodi wrote:

There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

Agreed.

Though, I'd suggest something else as well - there should be options for a leader leader. Leaders like the IG CCS - who exist to give orders and buff other units, rather than mixing it up in combat.

pelicaniforce wrote:

You have to change the game rules, though. The only stat used in shooting is ballistic skill, and all it does is give you the same hit as any other model, there isn't anything like a critical hit to be gained from having higher bs. Maybe if there were you'd see HQ models with storm bolter + plasma pistol.

There are things they could do though:

- Reduce the cost of Plasma Pistols (and similar weapons) or let them fire in combat.

- Add more gun options for HQs - not just the standard 'pistol or combi-something' affair, but 'proper' guns. I think relics like the Emperor's Benediction and Parasite's Kiss are a step in the right direction, but even they are just pistols.

Arnais wrote:
Why can't an autarch take Exarch weapons and powers? Mighty warrior of the eldar host, who has walked many warriors paths is forever condemned to never be able to match anything short of IG HQ in cc.

That is not a mistake, it reflects the fluff perfectly. Autarch is not an Exarch. Exarchs are Eldar who are trapped on their aspect path, becoming a living embodiment of that path, gaining superior skills, but never being able to leave the path. If this were to happen to an Autarch, they'd immediately cease to be an Autarch. Autarch is familiar with several aspect paths, but must not be consumed by one, they have to have the flexibility of the mind to combine and apply tactics of several paths, so they literally are jacks of all trades, but masters of none (as opposed to Exarchs, who are masters of a single path.)

pelicaniforce wrote:

kodi wrote:


There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

You have to change the game rules, though. The only stat used in shooting is ballistic skill, and all it does is give you the same hit as any other model, there isn't anything like a critical hit to be gained from having higher bs. Maybe if there were you'd see HQ models with storm bolter + plasma pistol.

I mean I'd be happy if I could just give my captain a damn ordinary plasma gun to use with his bs5. And there are "criticals", it's called rending and could be integrated into some wargear or option to make your shooting attack such. There's no need for rules changes, just options.

 Crimson wrote:

Arnais wrote:
Why can't an autarch take Exarch weapons and powers? Mighty warrior of the eldar host, who has walked many warriors paths is forever condemned to never be able to match anything short of IG HQ in cc.

That is not a mistake, it reflects the fluff perfectly. Autarch is not an Exarch. Exarchs are Eldar who are trapped on their aspect path, becoming a living embodiment of that path, gaining superior skills, but never being able to leave the path. If this were to happen to an Autarch, they'd immediately cease to be an Autarch. Autarch is familiar with several aspect paths, but must not be consumed by one, they have to have the flexibility of the mind to combine and apply tactics of several paths, so they literally are jacks of all trades, but masters of none (as opposed to Exarchs, who are masters of a single path.)

It may reflect the fluff but ruleswise the Autarch is pretty useless. It'd be more sensible to set up separate Path of Command 'Exarch weapons' for the Autarch.

 vipoid wrote:
My models can use their pistols in combat, but can't fire them in combat. Apparently they just try to bludgeon people with them or something.

kodi wrote:

There should be more options for shooty rather than stompy HQ's. Biceps McBigFist might isn't a thematically suitable leader for every army out there. Especially for people with a stealth or covert ops theme.

Agreed.

Though, I'd suggest something else as well - there should be options for a leader leader. Leaders like the IG CCS - who exist to give orders and buff other units, rather than mixing it up in combat.

pelicaniforce wrote:

You have to change the game rules, though. The only stat used in shooting is ballistic skill, and all it does is give you the same hit as any other model, there isn't anything like a critical hit to be gained from having higher bs. Maybe if there were you'd see HQ models with storm bolter + plasma pistol.

There are things they could do though:

- Reduce the cost of Plasma Pistols (and similar weapons) or let them fire in combat.

- Add more gun options for HQs - not just the standard 'pistol or combi-something' affair, but 'proper' guns. I think relics like the Emperor's Benediction and Parasite's Kiss are a step in the right direction, but even they are just pistols.

Well

The model for the Emperor's Benediction looks an awful lot like a bolt pistol. In fact, it is a bolt pistol. I'd really like it if I could just give a regular bolt pistol to multiple characters and he'd be able to do something interesting with it, like have the precision shot that the Emperor's Benediction gives him, also, I woudn't have to explain that no it's not a bolt pistol, it's a relic that looks identical to a bolt pistol has rules almost identical to a bolt pistol. It'd be nice if the stock pistol could be used with the stock stats bs, initiative, and attacks.

Speaking of leader characters, squad level weapons like plasma guns have a gunner and a commander. You're supposed to be too busy to line up a good shot with a plasma gun.