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So everyone needs some kind of anti AV13/14 in their list. But most competetive lists spam mid to high Str shooting (str6/7). So what is the best way of bringing good anti tank into a Space Marine list that isn't Grav centurions...

Melta guns in drop pods or on bikers.

And grav weaponry.

Well there is always the sicaran!

( and it sexy a feth! )

You have 3 options here for effectient AT:

- Meltacide Stenguard vets. Expensive if you want to run more than one unit, but usually worth it.
- something from Forge World would do very well, the Sicaran being one of them, the Fire Raptor being another
- Ally it in. Although not a Space Marine unit this way, the allies option is most likely the most efficient for the cost. With the option of Knights, Guard or any of the non-codex chapters, you can probably get some good combinations. You could even self-ally in-book to generate extra units to use

Let's not forget MM attack bikes. They're mobile, have better range than a MG bearing space marine , and with T5 and 2 wounds arguably tougher than MM land speeders.

Also, since they have the chapter tactics rule they'll enjoy the buffs from your CT. White Scars would fit in well, so would Salamanders and to a lesser extent Ultramarines.

I completely forgot Attack bikes were a thing, it's been that long since I've seen one

I like a little fast melta in my lists. Normal bike squads work well. I’d field attack bikes seperatly if I owned more. I’ve also got a soft spot for speeders. MMs on a fast skimmer can project a solid zone of control. If you want to spam MLs, a pair of TML/HB speeders is reasonably priced and quite flexible.

For other long range fire power options, there are devs and preds with LCs. Depending on you CT and list composition, there are pros and cons for either.

In the “less effective, but fun” category we have dreads. Either sit back and shoot options, or the slightly more competitive drop pod choices.

I'd say Laspreds.

Seige vanguard assault list.
-Squadron of 3 auto-las preds given tank hunter by a seige master (extra shots to benefit from tank hunter over tri-las and much cheaper for the squadron)


-Battery of 3 laser destroyer rapiers.
-Sicaran with schism of mars
-Typhon with both its primary weapon and bonuses to ramming (wrecks any non super heavy it touches just by rolling a 5 or 6, on top of a st10 ap1 ignores cover 7" blast.
-Storm Eagle Roc pattern. Especially with schism of mars. ANYTHING you point that at will get pulverised. Its firepower is insane!

MM Attack bikes always do well for me. A squad of 2 has a nice small footprint and can move around quickly to get into that sweet melta range.

Stormravens also perform well with a MM up front to try for the pen hit, then the AssCan and missiles to strip hull points if I don't get the pen from the MM.

Bikers with grav is the best anti-everything. It's a crazy cost efficent and versatile unit.

Regular bikers if you get the lame The Raptors chapter tactics from forgeworlds free pdf. Gives you the option to fire any bolter as heavy 1 rending if you don't move.

Master of the forge with conversion beamer on bike (to move and shoot) gives you a badass s10 ap1 at 42+ range.

Meltabombs strewn about your sergeants and meltaguns in your squads is the old fashioned way, and if not the most effective option it keeps your opponent from being to bold with his armor when every single squad can potentially blow him up.

Legion of the damned with multimelta makes everything that hovers cry with relentless and ignores cover.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Seige vanguard assault list.
-Squadron of 3 auto-las preds given tank hunter by a seige master (extra shots to benefit from tank hunter over tri-las and much cheaper for the squadron)


-Battery of 3 laser destroyer rapiers.
-Sicaran with schism of mars
-Typhon with both its primary weapon and bonuses to ramming (wrecks any non super heavy it touches just by rolling a 5 or 6, on top of a st10 ap1 ignores cover 7" blast.
-Storm Eagle Roc pattern. Especially with schism of mars. ANYTHING you point that at will get pulverised. Its firepower is insane!

Agree with sciarian with schism of mars with 2 lascannons

The fire raptor also deserves honorable mention in that is is pretty beastly vs most heavy / light infantry and can damage most fliers well. Has missles for some tank fire and frees up alot of room elsewhere for more anti-tank like lascannons in tac squads or something. Of note, I just found out the other day, forge world apparently changed the missles loadout. In the imperial armor books I was using it said it had stormstrike missles but now there's a new pdf that changed the missles to Hellstrike missles which are ordance. Those missles really have nerfed the fire raptor in my eyes as I used to shoot alot of stormeagle missles out of it. Now it makes all the weapons snap firing which totally sucks.

The Storm Eagle Roc is not classified as a tank. It can't take the schism of mars. As a generic vehicle however it can gain tank hunter for one turn with Battle of Sarosh. The war of murder legacy can still be used at least for monster hunter.

Other notable mentions for very large anti-tank:

Typhon heavy siege tank (super heavy lord of war though) - str 10 ap 1, massive blast 7', ignore cover, at 48' if stationary, 24' if moving
Fellblade super-heavy tank (think baneblade but with better bs 4, and tweaks to the main cannon - str 9 , AP2, armourbane small blast. Might need Battle of keylek legacy of glory to really get the most out of it.

Other cheaper ground choices that aren't LOR or super heavies:

Vindicator siege tank - not everyone's favorite but it can be intimidating if it gets the battle of keylek ignore cover rule while parked in some reinforced ruins somewhere. Hard to save it from side armor or assaults though.

Relic Whirlwind scorpius is a cheaper choice - str 8, ap3 and shoots heavy 1 +D3 if it doesn't move 3' blast barrages. Park it in the back and lob shells down range.

The good old predator - can park it way in the back with schism of mars las cannons fun with tank hunter. Also can get fancy with a heavy conversion beamer if you can keep it at max range. I don't take side sponsons with this one. Can then benefit from battle of keylek to get ignore cover on it instead

Land Raider Achilles - 2 TL MM, and one thunderfire cannon with PotMS. can slap on an additional multi--melta for good measure. Good for most things and can function without any legacy upgrade just fine. I often end up taking something like schism of mars on it anyway just to save it from haywire since it tends to get close.

Rapier weapons battery - 36' str 9, ap 2, ordance, twin linked.
For cheap but sometimes hard to control method - tarantula sentry gun battery with TL las cannons

Am I the only one fielding Devastators anymore?

Four lascannons can put some hurt on things. Especially if you use imperial fist ct for tank hunters.

 UltraTacSgt wrote:
Am I the only one fielding Devastators anymore?

Four lascannons can put some hurt on things. Especially if you use imperial fist ct for tank hunters.

Yes, you are the only one.

Power armor
Immobile
Expensive
Compete against GOOD units in the thunderfire, Sicarian and Grav cents.

They are ALMOST passable with the Imperial fists tactics....but I still would prefer something better overall. I might even say they might have a place in a power armor spam list....but that's not really a thing.

 UltraTacSgt wrote:
Am I the only one fielding Devastators anymore?

Four lascannons can put some hurt on things. Especially if you use imperial fist ct for tank hunters.

No. I field a squad in my Crimson Fists.

As to the thread at hand, a squad of Bikers with Melta or Grav tends to do the trick. Get yourself a Captain and a Command Squad, give the whole group bikes and Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta on the Captain. Go wild.

The Sicarian is S7, it can't touch AV14.

Devastators are a good budget option, but fast melta (typically Bikes, Drop Pods, or very occasionally double-MM Land Speeders) tends to be the most reliable approach if you have the points and don't mind the revenge fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Carnage43 wrote:

 UltraTacSgt wrote:
Am I the only one fielding Devastators anymore?

Four lascannons can put some hurt on things. Especially if you use imperial fist ct for tank hunters.

Yes, you are the only one.

Power armor
Immobile
Expensive
Compete against GOOD units in the thunderfire, Sicarian and Grav cents.

They are ALMOST passable with the Imperial fists tactics....but I still would prefer something better overall. I might even say they might have a place in a power armor spam list....but that's not really a thing.

Cheaper and much more versatile than things like Grav Centurions (we've had arguments elsewhere but bottom line unless you're doing gravspam Devastators actually have more guns and bodies per point than Centurions), cheaper models and more versatile than a Sicarian, and more versatile than Thunderfire cannons.

Basically Devastators are the budget option if you want to be able to fight a lot of things without throwing hundreds of dollars at units that are very, very good at killing one sort of thing.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Sicarian is S7, it can't touch AV14.

Devastators are a good budget option, but fast melta (typically Bikes, Drop Pods, or very occasionally double-MM Land Speeders) tends to be the most reliable approach if you have the points and don't mind the revenge fire.

The Sicaran can get Las Sponsons, which would make it capable of killing AV14, but that is it for them.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Sicarian is S7, it can't touch AV14.

Devastators are a good budget option, but fast melta (typically Bikes, Drop Pods, or very occasionally double-MM Land Speeders) tends to be the most reliable approach if you have the points and don't mind the revenge fire.

The Sicaran can get Las Sponsons, which would make it capable of killing AV14, but that is it for them.

It's primary weapon is rending as well...a 6 is at least a hull point, with a 3+ after that being a pen.

With Schism of mars it's actually not awful against AV14.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Sicarian is S7, it can't touch AV14.

Devastators are a good budget option, but fast melta (typically Bikes, Drop Pods, or very occasionally double-MM Land Speeders) tends to be the most reliable approach if you have the points and don't mind the revenge fire.

The Sicaran can get Las Sponsons, which would make it capable of killing AV14, but that is it for them.

It's primary weapon is rending as well...a 6 is at least a hull point, with a 3+ after that being a pen.

With Schism of mars it's actually not awful against AV14.

Mathematically it's still not a great option. With the reroll you're stripping 1.6 hull points off of AV14 instead of 0.9 hull points, assuming it's not something that's got a save of some kind. A double-MM Land Speeder or a Bike squad with two meltaguns hits almost as hard with a thirty percent chance of exploding the vehicle to boot for less than half the price.

That said if you're in a small game and you're going to take just one tank the Sicarian can credibly threaten anything, it's a good option, just not your best choice if your biggest problem is AV14.

Actually 3 MM attack bikes (or 3 meltas in range) have an average of stripping 1.44hps (2/3x13/18x3) 2 meltas is only 0.96hps.
Whilst a sicaran with lascannons and schism of mars strips 2.52hps on average off av14.
The multimeltas do indeed have a better chance of exploding it though with a 14.8% chance per shot. 3 meltas have a 38.2% chance of exploding a LR. Which tbf, is very good odds.

Put devs in a bunker with a psyker for prescience?

Or ammo dump for cheaper. IF lascannon devs in a bunker with ammo dump are excellent!

zerosignal wrote:
Put devs in a bunker with a psyker for prescience?

In 7th psykers cannot cast spells other than witchfires while embarked on transport or building.

sudojoe wrote:Of note, I just found out the other day, forge world apparently changed the missles loadout. In the imperial armor books I was using it said it had stormstrike missles but now there's a new pdf that changed the missles to Hellstrike missles which are ordance. Those missles really have nerfed the fire raptor in my eyes as I used to shoot alot of stormeagle missles out of it. Now it makes all the weapons snap firing which totally sucks.

Any chance of a link.

I know the chaos version has ordance missiles but wasnt aware normal marines had been changed to hell strikes? Only faq I can find is on FW website 20/12/13 which only adds the option of auto cannons.

The fire raptor experimental rules have been superseded by imperial armour vol 2 2nd edition, haven't they?

Those in IA2 2nd Ed are most definitely a downgrade, so I hope not

Poly Ranger wrote:
Actually 3 MM attack bikes (or 3 meltas in range) have an average of stripping 1.44hps (2/3x13/18x3) 2 meltas is only 0.96hps.
Whilst a sicaran with lascannons and schism of mars strips 2.52hps on average off av14.
The multimeltas do indeed have a better chance of exploding it though with a 14.8% chance per shot. 3 meltas have a 38.2% chance of exploding a LR. Which tbf, is very good odds.

The Sicaran also has far better range.