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 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Lolwut, at first I thought you were talking about something different, but Bioshock Big Daddies? Those things are pathetic, the only impressive thing about them is a drill. Guardsmen could drop them with lasguns.

Are you kidding me? I have literally shot a single Big Daddy with over 330 bullets and that bastard just kept coming. Big Daddies are all-around bigger and stronger than ordinary humans, and Subject Delta tooke a round from a Luger with it PRESSED AGAINST ONE OF THE THREE THIN POINTS OF ThE SKULL and he still survived, plus he's also man who can shoot lightning and fire out of his palm and use telekenesis.
Plus, mining drill vs. Power Armour, mining drill wins.

Ermmm Read the rules mate XD

 Asherian Command wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Lolwut, at first I thought you were talking about something different, but Bioshock Big Daddies? Those things are pathetic, the only impressive thing about them is a drill. Guardsmen could drop them with lasguns.

Are you kidding me? I have literally shot a single Big Daddy with over 330 bullets and that bastard just kept coming. Big Daddies are all-around bigger and stronger than ordinary humans, and Subject Delta tooke a round from a Luger with it PRESSED AGAINST ONE OF THE THREE THIN POINTS OF ThE SKULL and he still survived, plus he's also man who can shoot lightning and fire out of his palm and use telekenesis.
Plus, mining drill vs. Power Armour, mining drill wins.

Ermmm Read the rules mate XD

Ordinary Big Daddies are no tougher than Space Marines, though I just realized no magic powers is a rule. Although, Subject Delta is NOT a Psyker, he's just been generically modified so that he can manipulate the energy of his body to have what we consider to be fantastic results.

Anyways, ordinary Big Daddy then. Also, Riddick is totally gonna win this


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If not a Big Daddy then let's at LEAST have the Lone Wanderer with a Guess Rifle (Fallout 3)

Why does Boba Fett have dual blaster pistols rather than his blaster rifle?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Why does Boba Fett have dual blaster pistols rather than his blaster rifle?

I'll change that.

Can we make it just like the only canon Star Wars, and kill off Boba Fett before he does anything?

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Lolwut, at first I thought you were talking about something different, but Bioshock Big Daddies? Those things are pathetic, the only impressive thing about them is a drill. Guardsmen could drop them with lasguns.

Are you kidding me? I have literally shot a single Big Daddy with over 330 bullets and that bastard just kept coming. Big Daddies are all-around bigger and stronger than ordinary humans, and Subject Delta tooke a round from a Luger with it PRESSED AGAINST ONE OF THE THREE THIN POINTS OF ThE SKULL and he still survived, plus he's also man who can shoot lightning and fire out of his palm and use telekenesis.
Plus, mining drill vs. Power Armour, mining drill wins.

No offense, but this is probably because you're bad at the game. Unless you have actual video evidence... then you lack an argument. Not to mention that you're arguing purely off game mechanics, or do you truly think the soldiers in the COD universe can just walk off being shot with an RPG? No, it's a mechanic in the game so there's an actual fight, and you just don't fall over dead instantly.

Also, normal every-day people can survive being shot in the head just fine, even going so far as to deflect 9mm bullets.

Considering some people seem wholly ignorant of space marines, he's a quick education from the Black Library.


While armored, unarmored Astartes should sprint just as fast. Note that Talos ran ten meters and hopped a console in around 0.75-.0.66 seconds.

“‘Sire, I believe we should save them for–’ The human said nothing more. The front of his face came free with a sickly crack, the flesh and jagged bone crunching in the Night Lord’s fist. Talos ignored the body as it toppled, spilling the insides of its halved skull onto the decking. No one had even seen him move, such was the prophet’s speed, clearing ten metres and vaulting a console table in the time it took a human heart to beat once.”
Pg.93 VS

Astartes do not tire.

“Talos disembowelled one of the fleeing crew from behind, hurling the biological wreckage aside. He was sweating beneath his armour, already feeling the strain of the endless chopping through the panicked humans blocking the tunnels. A horde of them, hundreds – and soon to be thousands – were fleeing for the escape pods. Exhaustion wasn’t a factor; he could carve all day and all night without rest. The problem was purely one of time.”
Pg.229 VS

Astartes run 16.6 meters per second.

“‘He’s sent the pulse,’ Nemiel told the squad. ‘Brother Marthes, take point. Sergeant Kohl, help me with Brother Askelon. Let’s move!’
The Astartes sprang into action, charging down the tunnel behind Marthes, who advanced with his meltagun held ready. Kohl and Nemiel brought up the rear, dragging the limp form of Askelon between them.
Three hundred metres down the tunnel, the passageway fed into a large, square structure that echoed the permacrete blockhouse they’d entered at the manufactory. The plasteel rungs of another ladder climbed upward, presumably into the foundry’s assembly building. Sitting at its feet, just as Nemiel suspected, crouched a matte-black sentry gun. Armed with a turret-mounted twin-linked lascannon, the automated unit crouched on four stubby legs like a hungry spider waiting for prey. Nemiel could hear the hum of its power unit as they approached. Its twin guns were aimed straight down the tunnel at the approaching Astartes. A single shot would cut through their armour like tissue.

Nemiel consulted his internal chrono: they had just twelve seconds left. He looked to Kohl as they reached the bottom of the ladder. ”
Pg.394 FA

And another one where they cross hundreds of meters in a handful of seconds.

“They’d run for only a few hundred metres when just ahead they saw a platoon of skitarii jog into view, dragging four lascannons mounted on wheeled gun carriages. They saw the Astartes at almost the same instant; with three hundred metres between them, the enemy troops hurriedly dropped the trails on the four guns and began to frantically wheel them around to bear on the squad.
‘Charge!’ Nemiel cried, but the rest of squad hardly needed prompting. They broke into a full run, firing their bolters as they went.
Nemiel watched the mass-reactive shells strike the armoured splinter plates of the gun carriages and ricochet harmlessly away. The crews worked quickly and with remarkable precision, connecting the weapons to their power units and energising the guns in the space of seconds. If they had been preparing to fire on human troops, it might have been enough, but the Astartes reached the enemy with seconds to spare.
They leapt up and over the lascannons’ splinter shields and came down among the shocked gun crews. ”
Pg.470 FA

Eidetic memory coupled with super hearing allows Astartes to distinguish single autocannon shots in constant fire, and even hear the brass casing of the shells land over the gunfire.

“Maion held up his hand, the firing had stopped. His enhanced hearing had heard the bark of every round as they tore from the autcannon’s barrel. His eidetic memory had catalogued every shell casing that struck the ground. The weapon’s magazine was still half full. The traitors weren’t reloading, they were baiting them.”
Pg.12 H&B 15 – Beneath the Flesh

Astartes weapons are so heavy that mortals can't even lift them.

“He saw Tycho’s combi-weapon lying on the floor and took a half-step toward it. The idea of taking it up himself died in this mind; the gun was so massive he would never have been able to lift it.”
Pg.320 Blood Angels Omnibus

Astartes bullet time and can see supersonic shells travel.

“Gabriel squeezed a couple of shells out of his bolter and watched the little contrails that poured out behind them, as though in slow motion. They spun through the thick, gaseous air and then slipped through a gap in the lava flow, punching into the kaleidoscope of reflections beyond.”
Pg.258 Dawn of War Omnibus

Chaplain swats a supersonic bolt from the air.

“Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks.”
Pgs.231-232 H&B 16 – Redeemed

Astartes hearing is so sensitive they can hear heartbeats.

“She knows you lie. You hear her heartbeat, as I do. She is terrified, and she knows you are lying to her.”
Pg.419 TFH

Astartes are stupidly fast, Tal moves faster then a human eye can blink while drawing swords and putting them to a man's neck.

“‘Control your emotions, and move aside,’ Argel Tal growled, ‘or I will kill you.’
‘You cannot mean that, lord!’
Faster than human eyes could follow, the swords of red iron came free in hissing rasps. The tips of both blades rested against the fat priest’s three chins before he’d even had time to blink. Apparently, the lord did mean it.
‘Yes,’ the deacon stammered. ‘Yes, I…’
‘Just move,’ Argel Tal suggested. ”
Pg.264 TFH

Swats bolts out of the air with his swords.

“He pulled the haft-trigger, and his spear’s underslung bolter cracked off a stream of rounds on full-auto.
Argel Tal saw it coming. The swords of red iron smashed the first three bolts aside, their power fields strong enough to detonate the shells as they streaked towards the primarch’s heart. The explosions threw the captain to the ground, his grey armour scraping along the stone with the shriek of offended ceramite.”
Pg.383 The First Heretic

More insane movement speed, zips forward and grabs a guy again before a blink can even be made.

“The captain had no time to react – a blur of dark grey shoved her aside. Before she’d even blinked, Arvas was kicking and dangling above the ground, held aloft by Argel Tal’s fist around his throat. ”
Pg.420 FTH

In 0.33333 Seconds both Astartes and Custodes can land a melee strike.

“The two warriors flew at one another, each strike flashing aside with bursts from their opposing power fields. Every second saw three strikes made, and each strike snapped back with the weapons’ electrical fields repelling one another after the metal kissed for the briefest moment. The air was rich with the ozone scent of abused power fields in only a matter of heartbeats.”
Pg.612 TFH

Not likely relevant to the fight, but Astartes heat is so low it's incredibly hard to even detect.

“The Hall of Tra was cold and lightless. His wolf-eye caught the ghost radiation of barely smouldering firepits. In terms of heat and light, the Wolves were making no allowances for human tolerances of comfort. They had given him a pelt and an eye to see through the dark with. What more could he want?
He realised he wasn’t alone. The company was all around him. Their body heat was barely detectable, dimmer than the dull firepits. The Hall was a massive natural cavern, ragged and irregular, and the Astartes were ranged around it, huddled and coiled in their furs, as immobile as a sibling pack of predators, gone to ground overnight, dormant and pressed close for warmth.

The Upplander’s breath was steaming the frigid air, but barely a curl escaped Ogvai’s mouth alongside his words. Astartes biology was marvellously adapted for heat retention.”
Pg.107 Prospero Burns

Unarmored Astartes picks up a dude and rag-dolls him when tossing him with little exertion at all.

“Subha dispensed with any pretence of courtesy and picked Kai up as though he were a recalcitrant child. The World Eater sprinted towards the open hatchway as the rest of the Outcast Dead climbed aboard.
‘Atharva!’ shouted Subha. ‘Catch.’
Kai yelled as he sailed through the air, but Atharva caught him without difficulty and swung him around to plant him in a crew seat bolted to the fuselage. Kai felt as though every single bone in his body had been battered, and bit back a vulgar insult as Atharva pressed him into his seat.”
Pg.450 OD

Self explanatory, pretty sure it's unarmored as well.

Jonas dug his fingertips down into the sand next to the tablet, feeling along its length for a crack. With a slight nod of satisfaction, he found some leverage with his index finger and drove it underneath the stone. With a faint grimace of effort, the librarian prised the slab of rock off the ground; it pivoted along the far edge, as though hinged, and cascades of sand fell away, revealing the full extent of the object. The tablet was nearly two metres long, perhaps a metre wide, and at least ten centimetres thick.
As she approached, Meritia shook her head in amusement. Jonas hadn't even noticed that he had just lifted more with the index finger of one hand than most men could have done with the strength of their entire bodies.

Astartes barely strains to lift 1,100 pounds.

“During a particular training exercise in ambush methods, a fledgling Disciple was crushed by his own poorly-rigged log trap. One of the four - Gabre - simply levered the half-tonne log off the dead man and Mautista saw with his own eyes the way Gabre barely strained to lift it.” / Flesh and Iron, p.118 - **

Astartes pops one of these effortlessly

“He gripped his big, blunt fingers into the sandbag his arm rested on. It popped like a dry blister with no effort at all.” / Flesh and Iron, p.229 - **

Astartes bears the weight of his dead, armored captain, who is strapped to a solid slab of ceramite by iron chains, for hours on end. The weight is easily in excess of a thousand pounds or more, probably two thousand or so given the slab of ceramite. Oh, and he doesn't exert himself while doing this either.

“At last the moment came. Dak’ir had carried the weight of the pyre-slab for several hours. His shoulders did not even feel this exertion as he fed the chain down slowly, hand-over-hand. Each of the vast links, twice as large as an Astartes’ fist, was etched with the symbols of Promethean lore: the hammer, the anvil, the flame. Though the chain links would not dissolve when they touched the lava, they were still red-hot from the rising heat. As each link fed through his palm, Dak’ir gripped it and felt the symbols being slowly branded into his flesh.

Steam issued from every grasp . Dak’ir did not even flinch. He was focused on his task and knew that every link in the chain must be gripped in precisely the same way so that the three symbols were burned into the same place on his palm. Any mistake, however slight, would be obvious afterwards. The ruined mark would be scoured away by brander-priests, shame and disgrace left in its stead.” / Salamander, p.20 - **

Unarmored Astartes jumps thirteen goddamn feet into the air despite weighing something over one hundred and fifty kilos.

“He leapt. His explosiveness was incredible, clearing four metres from a standstill.” / Blood Gorgons, p.69 - **

Astartes presses 830 pounds unarmored.

“On board the Cauldron Born’s palaestras, it was not uncommon for Barsabbas to press three hundred and eighty kilograms of loaded kettles overhead, unarmoured.” / Blood Gorgons, p.151 - **

Tracking time by counting heartbeats.

“There was no chron in his cell and Hazareth had taken to marking the passing of time by the beat of his primary heart. Forty-eight beats was one minute, 2,880 was one hour. Over thirty-four thousand for one ship cycle. Only five ship cycles until the plan was under way.” / Blood Gorgons, p.132 - **

Lulzy galloping run.

“'Disperse!' bellowed Astelan, sprinting to his right. His power armour took him across the ground in huge leaps, covering half a dozen metres with every pace.” / Tales of Heresy, p.304 - Call of the Lion

Astartes are so utterly terrifying that they can cause normal humans to go insane from mere exposure. It's also so common they named a bloody medical condition for it.

“Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear.

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first.” / Age of Darkness, p.163 - **

Microsecond reaction speeds.

“As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone.” / The Space Wolf Omnibus, p.269 - **

Astartes goes on a non-stop rampage for over eight hours and only stops because he falls over from lactic acid buildup. It took over eight hours for enough lactic acid to form however to do this.

“Enraged, the Blood Gorgon hammered the floor tiles with his fists. The tireless banging split the ceramic and brought down scuds of dust from the rafters. Still howling, Barsabbas rose to his feet and began to beat his own naked face against the generator’s iron bearing covers. The ridged metal scored his cheeks and opened up raw, bleeding lines across his forehead. Sargaul began to bawl too, stimulated by the loud noise. His eyes were fixed upon the ceiling and his clumsy tongue worked in a muted, stifled yell.

Barsabbas raged long into the night. He did not stop. Seized by an anguish that had no release, he began to tear down the processing facility with his bare hands. Bones splintered wood, boots dented metal. He raged until his fists were black and bleeding and the ceramite of his gauntlets was textured with scratches. Dust clouds fumed as he broke through the walls. Sindul sheltered behind a storage locker as the world crashed and shook. The Traitor Marine was like an earthquake or a storm. Sindul had little hope of escaping and was helpless to stop it. Instead he hid and hoped it would pass quickly. The noise had promised such fury that even the warp beasts had fled the area, balking at such raw power. Gumede, hiding far out in the grass fields, prayed. He thought the end of the world had come. He prayed through the night and did not stop until the first sun crested the horizon. Finally, as the suns reached first dawn, Barsabbas grew tired. By then, he had levelled almost a third of the abandoned facility. He collapsed as the lactic buildup in his muscles reached toxic levels, beyond what even an Astartes could ignore.” / Blood Gorgons, p.137 - **

Astartes find seventy kilo power fists and lightning claws to be weightless, even out of armor.

“Priad flexed the long, segmented fingers of the metal glove, and watched as blue sparks hissed from digit to digit. The claw weighed close to seventy kilos and was three times the size of a human hand. But even without the strength enhancing mechanics of his Mark VII power armor, Priad would not have been tested by the weight.” - / Brothers of the Snake, p.142 - **

While this is armored, given that Astartes can casually lift over a thousand pounds without even a grunt, this probably would happen even out of armor.

“Ragnar smiled and casually backhanded his attacker. Teeth flew everywhere and bones broke as his foe was thrown across the room.” / Wolfblade, p.127 - **

Or this.

“He picked up the metal table. The bolts holding it to the floor snapped as he lifted it free and tossed it into the oncoming mass of drugged fanatics. It bowled them over and left them sprawling beneath its weight. Haegr reached forward and picked two up, one in each hand, and then used them as clubs to batter their companions senseless. He raced through them like an out-of-control behemoth, unstoppable as a charging rhino. Within seconds he had left a trail of maimed and battered foes behind him. Any that tried to get to their feet were stamped on. Their hands and legs shattered along with bionics and bones.” / Wolfblade, p.130 - **

Or this

“Before the Imperial could shoot again, Kroeger was upon him, backhanding his fist across his face and decapitating him in an explosion of blood and bone.” / Storm of Iron, p.17 - **

Or this

“Laughing, Sica backhanded one of the hooded men with the ridged knuckles of his gauntlet, snapping his neck and throwing two hundred kilos of brutish soldier back into his comrades.” / Blood Gorgons, p.64 - **

Are you still on that?

FYI, I've been playing 40K since the late 90s and am well aware of the capabilities of Space Marines, as well as how incosistently they're portrayed.
I just don't ascribe to the Black Library teenage wishfulfillment bolterporn version of it, as it is even more ridiculous than the actual GW portrayal, nor am I such a Marine fanboy that I dismiss other universes' supersoldiers out of hand simply because GW and BL don't understand physics or biology.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Are you still on that?

FYI, I've been playing 40K since the late 90s and am well aware of the capabilities of Space Marines, as well as how incosistently they're portrayed.
I just don't ascribe to the Black Library teenage wishfulfillment bolterporn version of it, as it is even more ridiculous than the actual GW portrayal, nor am I such a Marine fanboy that I dismiss other universes' supersoldiers out of hand simply because GW and BL don't understand physics or biology.

It doesn't matter considering it's just as relevent as other material, and GW directly approves of it considering they publish it personally. It's first party source material as the Black Library is just a sockpuppet of GW, the only material I would begin to question its relevancy is third party commissioned material, like the Dawn of War videogames.

Also, as it's fiction, the author can simply handwave physics away if so willed because well, fiction, the author, and word of god. It doesn't matter if you don't like it, it still happened and is just as canon as the BRB or the Codices. Also, I am familiar with most of the supersoldiers on this list, and their feats don't look impressive at all in 40k. Especially Riddick. I love Riddick as old 40's style pulp science fiction, but the dude is completely out of his game here. The problem is that the OP fails to distinguish the difference between superhumans (Prophet,Edward, the Astartes, John 117, Shepard, etc) from normal humans or those who are close to normal humans and don't stupid amounts of durability.

And just realized Shepard is on this list. If he has biotic powers, he wins by default and could only be given a run for his money by Edward if people don't pile on him immediately. Edward's powerful, but he can be taken down by parties who are faster then him, such as John, Prophet, or the Astartes.

Yes, and in the Space Marine videogame, three Ultramarines stop an entire Ork Waaagh as well as a Deamonic invasion all by themselves.
Also, we should add Tau Fire Warriors, as the Fire Warrior games shows us a single Fire Warrior is much stronger than a Space Marine. Even stronger than a large group of Space Marines. A single Fire Warrior can easily kill large numbers of Space Marines and even a Lord of Change.

Please don't use BL other GW-published media to show Space Marine capabilities. It is often ridiculous and always contradictory. For every BL book where Space Marines are superhumans that can kill hundreds of normal humans on their own, there is a BL book that has SM falling like wheat to a scythe. There is too much contradiction and therefore BL is unreliable as a source. Please only use the material directly written by GW, as that is sometimes slightly coherent.

Also, not all entries have a weapon yet. Get to work guys!

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yes, and in the Space Marine videogame, three Ultramarines stop an entire Ork Waaagh as well as a Deamonic invasion all by themselves.
Also, we should add Tau Fire Warriors, as the Fire Warrior games shows us a single Fire Warrior is much stronger than a Space Marine. Even stronger than a large group of Space Marines. A single Fire Warrior can easily kill large numbers of Space Marines and even a Lord of Change.

Please don't use BL other GW-published media to show Space Marine capabilities. It is often ridiculous and always contradictory. For every BL book where Space Marines are superhumans that can kill hundreds of normal humans on their own, there is a BL book that has SM falling like wheat to a scythe. There is too much contradiction and therefore BL is unreliable as a source. Please only use the material directly written by GW, as that is sometimes slightly coherent.

Also, not all entries have a weapon yet. Get to work guys!

Actually the Tau was perfectly explained. He was a champion of Khorne.

And seeing that you seemed to miss the message, the Black Library is written by GW.. Besides, I can also just point to the Codices where scouts stop an entire planetary rebellion in a day, the Salamanders sack Necron Tomb World, a couple Space Marines hold of a gate from orks for years, Ultramarines curbstomp Eldar, etc.

You're the one completely missing the point Wyzilla.

Space Marine portrayal in fiction is completely incoherent. Among the codices as well, but far, far worse in Black Library novels.
A much fairer way to judge their capabilites is to compare their enhancements (which while sometimes silly, are at least consistent and described in detail - and definitely impressive.)

And Black Library is not written by GW. It's written by a couple of hacks with at best a passing knowledge of the source material which is already sketchy at best, and whatever drivel comes out of their typewriters is then published by a GW subsidiary.

If BL is your go-to for canon, I nominate MkVenner of the Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard Scout regiment. He singlehandedly took down a Chaos Dreadnought!

And the Gaunt's Ghosts, have gone up against Chaos Marines (who are arguably more dangerous than regular marines) and easily beat them! And they're unenhanced humans, so anyone on the original who is somehow enhanced should curbstomp the 40K Marines. It's GW published canon, so it must be true!

Edit: I'm a doofus who can't spell late at night.

Bran Dawri wrote:
You're the one coimpletely missing the point Wyzilla.

Space Marine portrayal in fiction is completely incoherent. Among the codices as well, but far, far worse in Black Library novels.
A much fairer way to judge their capabilites is to compare their enhancements (which while sometimes silly, are at least consistent and described in detail - and definitely impressive.)

And Black Library is not written by GW. It's written by a couple of hacks with at best a passing knowledge of the source material which is already sketchy at best, and whatever drivel comes out of their typewriters is then published by a GW subsidiary.

If BL is your go-to for canon, I nominate MkVenner of the Gaunt's Ghosts Imperial Guard Scout regiment. He singlehandedly took down a Chaos Dreadnought!

ANd the Gaunt's Ghosts, have gone up against Chaos Marines (who are arguably more dangerous than regular marines) and easily beat them! And they're unenhanced humans, so anyone on the original who is somehow enhanced should curbstomp the 40K Marines. It's GW published canon, so it must be true!

Those couple of hacks also include the people who write the codices, like Gav.

And if you seriously haven't been paying attention, nothing in 40k is consistent. You have to average it if you want any sort of consistency. The only thing that actually is somewhat consistent is FFG, although even that system can have hiccups.

Also, given that repetition tends to mean a pattern, meaning consistency, you're grabbing a low end from a single book series and a single author. The wall of quotes I posted were from multiple authors, multiple books, and multiple series. Making them to appear more factual then taking a single example and attempting to use it to invalidate numerous sources instead. Of course you're also being dishonest, considering that when the Ghosts took on the Chaos Space Marines, they also had a railgun bow laced with poison strong enough to kill a mortal human.

And no again, the Black Library books are published by GW, just as the Codices are. Or have you not actually bothered to check the codices and rulebooks to see that they have authors and artists as well, who like Black Library material, vary incredibly? There is zero consistency in 40k. You can't hold any single source by GW above any other.

 Iron_Captain wrote:


Also, not all entries have a weapon yet. Get to work guys!

People need to suggest them. Its not my idea to come up with the weapons XD

 Wyzilla wrote:
And no again, the Black Library books are published by GW, just as the Codices are. Or have you not actually bothered to check the codices and rulebooks to see that they have authors and artists as well, who like Black Library material, vary incredibly? There is zero consistency in 40k. You can't hold any single source by GW above any other.

Yes you can. You could hold material published by the main GW studio over that of GW subsidiaries such as BL and FW.
And the codices and rulebooks may not be coherent either, but they are still not as contradictory as BL material because they are written by a much smaller group of authors.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Actually the Tau was perfectly explained. He was a champion of Khorne.

That doesn't really explain anything. He would be the first champion of Khorn ever to be capable of such feats that would warrant an instant elevation to deamonhood. He slew a greater deamon all on his own, even Sanguinius was barely capable of that.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yes you can. You could hold material published by the main GW studio over that of GW subsidiaries such as BL and FW.
And the codices and rulebooks may not be coherent either, but they are still not as contradictory as BL material because they are written by a much smaller group of authors.

And who deems that omission as objectively right? You?

BL is as canon as studio fluff. It seems less consistent because there's much more of it.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That doesn't really explain anything. He would be the first champion of Khorn ever to be capable of such feats that would warrant an instant elevation to deamonhood. He slew a greater deamon all on his own, even Sanguinius was barely capable of that.

Sanguinius fought Ka'bandha, described as the greatest champion of Khorne to manifest in the mortal realm. He is not standard in any way.

They include some of the people who write some of the codexes.

The inconsistency of GW material is our entire point. It's one of the reasons I'm getting out of the hobby altogether.

You're saying to basically include all of it that agrees with your point, but not the other stuff.
I only gave one example just to prove that there is GW canon that goes completely counter to your hardon for 40K Marines.

Essentially, you want to use Movie Marines. I don't, because they're a) physically and biologically impossible and b) stupid.

We're saying to disregard the really stupid stuff. Or to disregard all of it except the old descriptions of what enhancements Marines actually get and go from there to get a fair(er) comparison versus other enhanced warriors. You know, the implanted extra organs and stuff

 Ashiraya wrote:
Sanguinius fought Ka'bandha, described as the greatest champion of Khorne to manifest in the mortal realm. He is not standard in any way.

The most powerful of Khorne's servants? Just like Doombreed, Angron and An'ggrath you mean? This perfectly illustrates the inconsistency of 40k.
Therefore I say that to determine how powerful a space marine is, we should not rely on such contradictory fluff statements. Rather we should look at the enhancements and equipment a sm has that changes him from a normal human into a sm and than determine what seems about reasonable with such enhancements.

I just remembered why I hate Wyzilla... Anways...

Wyzilla, you do realize that any book with Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, etc. as the protagonists shows them curbstomping Space Marines as if they were Imperial Guard, right? Most of what I saw in your post was just bad fluff writing. GW itself has said not to trust BL as canon, because it IS.NOT.CANON. By the logic of what you showed, the IoM should be in total dominance of the galaxy with no major threats, simply because of OMG SPESS MEHRINES AH SO AWWWEESOOMMMMEEE!!!!


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 Ashiraya wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yes you can. You could hold material published by the main GW studio over that of GW subsidiaries such as BL and FW.
And the codices and rulebooks may not be coherent either, but they are still not as contradictory as BL material because they are written by a much smaller group of authors.

And who deems that omission as objectively right? You?

BL is as canon as studio fluff. It seems less consistent because there's much more of it.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That doesn't really explain anything. He would be the first champion of Khorn ever to be capable of such feats that would warrant an instant elevation to deamonhood. He slew a greater deamon all on his own, even Sanguinius was barely capable of that.

Sanguinius fought Ka'bandha, described as the greatest champion of Khorne to manifest in the mortal realm. He is not standard in any way.

There are several uber-powerful Champions of Khorne and Greater Daemons, but I agree with you on that point. Not standard at all.

Also, BL is too contradictory to be complete canon. You have Space Marines moving FTL in one novel, then you have them moving sluggishly in comparison with the Eldar in the next. You have a Space Marine getting half of his skull blown off and still fighting in one novel, then you have a Space Marine getting shot in the face with an ordinary lasgun and dying in the next. You have a Librarian with the same powers as Super Man in one novel, then you have Mephiston gettin' his ass kicked by some insignificants in the next. You see the inconsistencies there? If you see something that is directly contradicted by two or more other pieces of fluff, then it is not canon. If you see something so ridiculously illogical that you take a double take, then disregard it as non-canon. Logic is your friend. Use it.


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Also, give Master chief an Energy Sword


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Give Riddick a bad-ass knife capable of piercing the weakpoints in Astartes Power Armour


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And give Walker Texas Ranger the fist that's hidden underneath his beard. Or a roundhouse kick. Give him a roundhouse kick.

I'm always amazed that people still believe that there is a canon for 40k. - It goes against the entire ethos of the setting of the game ( in my opinion anyhow).

"Everything you have been told is a lie."