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Are Vendettas fairly priced, or did they get overcosted?

 koooaei wrote:

Pasknisher is a universal tank that should be deployed close to the front due to it's shorter range. Not that it's a problem as it's a good idea to play more or less offensive as you have enough bodies to screen it and push forward. Keep PCS well-hidden and preferably barebones to be a lesser target magnet. A well-timed Move, move, move! or FRDSRF is priceless. That's one of the reasons you'd consider a comissar over a priest - to buff ld to 9 for orders.

This is actually another question that I had, but I'd rather ask it here and perhaps avoid moving to YMDC. Does the Commissar's LD bubble actually effect orders? From the text in the AM codex it simply says fear, pinning, and moral checks.Where as taking orders is a leadership test?

 Peregrine wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
the Thunderbolt is a general-purpose plane that can take on most targets depending on its ordnance loadout but is also very expensive

The Thunderbolt sucks. It's more expensive than a Vendetta but has weaker guns, weaker armor, and no transport capacity. The only reason I can think of to even consider taking one is if you've filled up all of your fast attack slots, can't take another detachment to get more, and still need more flyers. And even then I'd almost always take the Avenger instead.

Ordnance saturation. It's not a budget option but it's multirole (it can bomb ground targets, kill planes, and kill tanks with the same loadout, which the Vendetta can't), it's got S7 autocannons so it's a bit better than the Avenger at fighting AV12 Flyers, it can Deep Strike (so you can hit the optimal facing on something better/faster), it's harder to kill with bolters than the Avenger since it's got 11 side, it's got more volume than the Vendetta to overcome jink, and it's got the repair rule in case of emergencies, plus it's got three Hull Points (the Avenger is stuck with two). It's a jack-of-all-trades plane to take if you don't know what to expect and you don't want to bring two planes, it's not a good choice for dedicated single-role or skew list setups.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
(it can bomb ground targets, kill planes, and kill tanks with the same loadout, which the Vendetta can't)

So what? The bombs are ridiculously expensive and suck, and the Vendetta is better at everything else. I don't see any value in a unit that trades firepower in its primary role for an ineffective attempt at a secondary role.

(Also, don't forget that hellstrike missiles are useless. If you're getting your "can kill tanks" claim from the missiles then you're wrong.)

it's got S7 autocannons so it's a bit better than the Avenger at fighting AV12 Flyers

Sure, but that's not the issue. It's better than the Avenger at some roles, but so is the Vendetta. And the Vendetta is better than the Thunderbolt.

it's got more volume than the Vendetta to overcome jink

This is a misunderstanding. Like the old misunderstanding about "lots of shots is better at low BS" it ignores the fact that jink saves are just a 0.5x multiplier on your damage, they apply exactly the same no matter what weapon type you're using. An AC is more likely to hit at all, but the LC is more likely to do damage when it hits. The end result is that the weapon that is best without a jink save (and at high BS, etc) is also the weapon that is best with a jink save (low BS, etc). The only way this would change is if you have a weapon that ignores the save, and neither unit has that.

and it's got the repair rule in case of emergencies

Too bad that repair rule might as well be blank text. If you have something to shoot at you're never going to give up shooting to repair, and if you don't have something to shoot at it's better to fly off the table and set up a shot for next turn. It's a nice bit of fluff, but that's it.

It's a jack-of-all-trades plane to take if you don't know what to expect and you don't want to bring two planes

No, because as a jack-of-all-trades plane it's worse than the Vendetta. If you only want one flyer and don't know what you're facing you take the Vendetta (or maybe a punisher cannon Vulture). The only time the Thunderbolt is even potentially a valid choice is if you have already filled up your fast attack slots and need to get a heavy support flyer.