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So I am getting to the point of starting a new army. I was wondering what info you guys can give me about Grey Knights. I am not at all familiar with them. I have only seen them played once and that was in an Apoc game so it wasn't much of a true Grey Knights army. Any help would be appreciated.

There are a lot of tactics and battle reports out there for Grey Knights, just google them. That being said, read the fluff first and see if you like them.

Grey Knights are semi strong, but are a low model count army. They consist mainly of Terminators and Dreadknights, with a lot of Psychic Powers. They can be a lot of fun, but because of their low model count, they suffer at objective games and can also be overwhelmed by lots of AP2.

Well, competitive Grey Knights revolves around Terminators, Dreadknights, and Librarians.

First off, our unique GK Detachment. The Nemesis Strike Force.

The NSF is a FoC that only has 1 mandatory HQ and 1 mandatory Troops choice. It then gives use 4 Elite slots, but only 2 FA and 2 HS.

The bonuses are, a reroll on the GK Warlord table. In addition, any GK units which are arriving from reserves by Deep Strike can be rolled for on turn 1 and arrive on 3+, units which Deep Strike in the detachment can both run and shoot the turn they arrive, in any order you want.

The basic idea is that you deep strike a lot of your army on turn 1 and begin hitting your opponent hard.

The detachment really likes bringing 1 Imperial Knight along. That way, every GK unit can go into reserves and you don't need to worry about getting shot off the table on turn 1. The Knight also covers some weaknesses of the codex, namely lack of vehicles.


My lists usually look like an Imperial Knight, 2 units of 10 Terminators, 2 Librarians(one with Domina Liber Daemonica), maybe a Grand Master with a Psycannon and Cuirass of Sacrifice, and 2 Dreadknights. I may or may not also have a Stormraven for some aerial support.

All my Librarians and GM roll on Sanctic. The money spells are Gate of Infinity and Vortex of Doom. Sanctuary is also golden to get. If you took a third Librarian I would give him Divination to try and get Foreboding, it stacks with Sanctuary to give a unit a 3+ invuln for a turn. As long as you took 2 units of Terminators you have 4 HQ slots available(2 detachments)

I've lived the dream of deep striking in on turn 1, tossing a Vortex of Doom and/or casting Cleansing Flame on an enemy unit at point blank range, and then Gating to safety. Every turn after that is continuing to Gate around as needed. The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn. You can also use Gate to get out of an unfavorable combat, and then shoot the fools who tried to engage you. And they'll all be nicely clumped for that sweet Str9 melta cannon on the Knight Errant you might have taken, or a StrD Vortex, since they don't get to consolidate.

 jreilly89 wrote:
There are a lot of tactics and battle reports out there for Grey Knights, just google them. That being said, read the fluff first and see if you like them.

Grey Knights are semi strong, but are a low model count army. They consist mainly of Terminators and Dreadknights, with a lot of Psychic Powers. They can be a lot of fun, but because of their low model count, they suffer at objective games and can also be overwhelmed by lots of AP2.

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I posted this then started to read. I like the idea of a small army actually I think it will be a big difference to the Zombie Horde CSM I play now.

Whats nice about having Gate of Infinity is that that power fixes the biggest problems GKs have. Objectives and mobility.

You can always get to the objective when you need to, and you can apply the limited, but strong, shooting power you have available when and where you need it.

As for warlord traits, while the generic tables are nice. I would just go with the GK warlord traits. With the reroll, you have a roughly 56% of getting one of the two good results. A free Sanctic power on your warlord, or automatically arriving by deep strike turn 1 with a reroll on the scatter with your warlord's unit.

Its a limited, and difficult, playstyle to master. But its very rewarding and nicely challenging.

Grey knights are fun, fiery easy to paint, and as others have said, low model count and beautiful sculpts. Can't go wrong with them. New codex and the new formations are pretty cool too.

Grey Templar wrote:Whats nice about having Gate of Infinity is that that power fixes the biggest problems GKs have. Objectives and mobility.

You can always get to the objective when you need to, and you can apply the limited, but strong, shooting power you have available when and where you need it.

As for warlord traits, while the generic tables are nice. I would just go with the GK warlord traits. With the reroll, you have a roughly 56% of getting one of the two good results. A free Sanctic power on your warlord, or automatically arriving by deep strike turn 1 with a reroll on the scatter with your warlord's unit.

Its a limited, and difficult, playstyle to master. But its very rewarding and nicely challenging.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, competitive Grey Knights revolves around Terminators, Dreadknights, and Librarians.

First off, our unique GK Detachment. The Nemesis Strike Force.

The NSF is a FoC that only has 1 mandatory HQ and 1 mandatory Troops choice. It then gives use 4 Elite slots, but only 2 FA and 2 HS.

The bonuses are, a reroll on the GK Warlord table. In addition, any GK units which are arriving from reserves by Deep Strike can be rolled for on turn 1 and arrive on 3+, units which Deep Strike in the detachment can both run and shoot the turn they arrive, in any order you want.

The basic idea is that you deep strike a lot of your army on turn 1 and begin hitting your opponent hard.

The detachment really likes bringing 1 Imperial Knight along. That way, every GK unit can go into reserves and you don't need to worry about getting shot off the table on turn 1. The Knight also covers some weaknesses of the codex, namely lack of vehicles.


My lists usually look like an Imperial Knight, 2 units of 10 Terminators, 2 Librarians(one with Domina Liber Daemonica), maybe a Grand Master with a Psycannon and Cuirass of Sacrifice, and 2 Dreadknights. I may or may not also have a Stormraven for some aerial support.

All my Librarians and GM roll on Sanctic. The money spells are Gate of Infinity and Vortex of Doom. Sanctuary is also golden to get. If you took a third Librarian I would give him Divination to try and get Foreboding, it stacks with Sanctuary to give a unit a 3+ invuln for a turn. As long as you took 2 units of Terminators you have 4 HQ slots available(2 detachments)

I've lived the dream of deep striking in on turn 1, tossing a Vortex of Doom and/or casting Cleansing Flame on an enemy unit at point blank range, and then Gating to safety. Every turn after that is continuing to Gate around as needed. The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn. You can also use Gate to get out of an unfavorable combat, and then shoot the fools who tried to engage you. And they'll all be nicely clumped for that sweet Str9 melta cannon on the Knight Errant you might have taken, or a StrD Vortex, since they don't get to consolidate.

Thanks everybody and Grey Templar thanks for really breaking it down for me.

that said the one PROBLEM GKs by themselves have is heavy armor. GKs would struggle against say... a guard Lemen russ army. but conversly they're incrediably good against Monsterous creatures (thus turning the meta of MCs> walkers on it's head)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Whats nice about having Gate of Infinity is that that power fixes the biggest problems GKs have. Objectives and mobility.

You can always get to the objective when you need to, and you can apply the limited, but strong, shooting power you have available when and where you need it.

As for warlord traits, while the generic tables are nice. I would just go with the GK warlord traits. With the reroll, you have a roughly 56% of getting one of the two good results. A free Sanctic power on your warlord, or automatically arriving by deep strike turn 1 with a reroll on the scatter with your warlord's unit.

Its a limited, and difficult, playstyle to master. But its very rewarding and nicely challenging.

^ Listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn.

Don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the wording for the NSF is that units that arrive from Deep Strike Reserves can run and shoot. Pretty sure this means that they don't get to do so when they gate since they're technically not arriving from reserves. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be able to do it every time they gate.

A brief warning: The models you care most about in a Grey Knight army today are the Terminators, the Dreadknights, and the Stormraven. PAGK and Land Raiders are a trap.

Once you've got that down everything else becomes much simpler.


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confoo22 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn.

Don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the wording for the NSF is that units that arrive from Deep Strike Reserves can run and shoot. Pretty sure this means that they don't get to do so when they gate since they're technically not arriving from reserves. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be able to do it every time they gate.

Confirmed, triggers specifically on Reserves. This isn't WMH, rules aren't supposed to synergize/interact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GK also have great access to Allies since they're Imperial; if you do nothing else with this power having long-ranged guns and some way to fight heavy armour (like, say, bringing a barrel of monkeys Inquisition team or two) plugs some holes very well.

confoo22 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn.

Don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the wording for the NSF is that units that arrive from Deep Strike Reserves can run and shoot. Pretty sure this means that they don't get to do so when they gate since they're technically not arriving from reserves. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be able to do it every time they gate.

Gate of Infinity is arriving by Deep Strike, the rules for deep strike don't allow for units using it to not be arriving from reserves.

I've already proven on multiple occasions that you do count as arriving from Deep Strike Reserves when you use the Gate of Infinity power. Otherwise, you couldn't actually ever use the psychic power.

Look at the Deep Strike rule. It is the only place where "Deep Strike Reserves" is defined, and that definition is "arriving by deep strike". Models using GoI are arriving by Deep Strike, thus they are arriving from Deep Strike Reserves.

 Grey Templar wrote:

confoo22 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn.

Don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the wording for the NSF is that units that arrive from Deep Strike Reserves can run and shoot. Pretty sure this means that they don't get to do so when they gate since they're technically not arriving from reserves. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be able to do it every time they gate.

Gate of Infinity is arriving by Deep Strike, the rules for deep strike don't allow for units using it to not be arriving from reserves.

I've already proven on multiple occasions that you do count as arriving from Deep Strike Reserves when you use the Gate of Infinity power. Otherwise, you couldn't actually ever use the psychic power.

Look at the Deep Strike rule. It is the only place where "Deep Strike Reserves" is defined, and that definition is "arriving by deep strike". Models using GoI are arriving by Deep Strike, thus they are arriving from Deep Strike Reserves.

Strict reading models using Gate aren't deploying via "Deep Strike Reserves"; they aren't deploying via Deep Strike, they're deploying "using the rules for Deep Strike", and the difference between "Deep Strike" and "Deep Strike Reserves" isn't well-defined. There's no FAQ to cover it, so it looks like it's open to interpretation and your play group can argue about it because there's no concrete answer in the rules.

Or send it over to You Make Da Call and see what folks who are better at it than Grey Templar and I can tell you.

Indeed, although I believe my interpretation is completely supported by the Deep Strike rules. After all, if you are using the rules for Deep Strike, then you must use the rule where it says that "arriving by deep strike = deep strike reserves"

It also isn't the interpretation which breaks the game. IE: Gate of Infinity actually works and it can be applied consistently without breaking multiple rules.

Thats my metric for determining which interpretation of a GW rule to go with, which breaks the game the least.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, although I believe my interpretation is completely supported by the Deep Strike rules. After all, if you are using the rules for Deep Strike, then you must use the rule where it says that "arriving by deep strike = deep strike reserves"

It also isn't the interpretation which breaks the game. IE: Gate of Infinity actually works and it can be applied consistently without breaking multiple rules.

Thats my metric for determining which interpretation of a GW rule to go with, which breaks the game the least.

The problem is Gate is the only rule in the game that has you deploying "as if by Deep Strike" without actually hitting Reserves.

If the text of Gate put you in Ongoing Reserves you'd be fine, but it's weird right now. (I'd support that fix, it makes everything much simpler)

:( I think I got confused. I am going to pick up the Codex this weekend and revisit after I know what I am reading.

Son of aY3ti wrote:
:( I think I got confused. I am going to pick up the Codex this weekend and revisit after I know what I am reading.

Bottom line remains "Buy Terminators over PAGK".

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
:( I think I got confused. I am going to pick up the Codex this weekend and revisit after I know what I am reading.

Bottom line remains "Buy Terminators over PAGK".

And buy Dreadknights over Terminators.

On Gating = arriving from DS reserves, what happens when you mishap and go into Ongoing Reseves? Do you walk on from the table edge, or do you arrive again by Deep Strike?

A key to answering that question is where the unit is located when arriving by Deep Strike. Normally, the unit is in reserves. Per Gate of Infinity, the unit is removed from the table and immediately arrives via Deep Strike. As Deep Strike and Deep Strike Reserves are the same thing per the Deep Strike rules, and the models are not on the table immediately before arriving, the unit is indeed in reserves, per both Deep Strike and Ongoing Reserves rules. As such, a unit of NSF GK arriving by Gate will legally proc Rites of Teleportation and gain the Shoot-Run/Run-Shoot permission. That is RAW.

On list building, I love taking Draigo for Gate and general badassery, a Librarian with Liber to fish for Vortex, at least one squad of GKT, one squad of GK Interceptors with Incinerator(s), 2 DreadKnights, and a Imperial Knight Errant. And even though I take them as an NSF, it's a rare game where I reserve anything. My Turn 1 is all about Shunting, Gating, Shooting, and Scooting.

The Errant, for me, is a "Titan-class DreadKnight" that disrupts my opponent's focus while bringing the anti-tank my Draigo-Shunt-Bomb needs. When I'm feeling really naughty, that Errant is Grenaticus (named IK Errant with improved stats, more rules, and a bigger price tag). Between the Errant, the DKs, and the Draigo-Bomb, all inside my opponent's deployment zone on turn 1 (well, maybe not the Errant), I have a pretty decent chance to drive the game into my favor early enough that Flyers are not an issue (a known weakness of Knights of either flavor).

SJ

 Grey Templar wrote:

confoo22 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Deep Strike from Gate also triggers the Detachment special rule, allowing you to run and shoot the same turn.

Don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure that the wording for the NSF is that units that arrive from Deep Strike Reserves can run and shoot. Pretty sure this means that they don't get to do so when they gate since they're technically not arriving from reserves. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I would love to be able to do it every time they gate.

Gate of Infinity is arriving by Deep Strike, the rules for deep strike don't allow for units using it to not be arriving from reserves.

I've already proven on multiple occasions that you do count as arriving from Deep Strike Reserves when you use the Gate of Infinity power. Otherwise, you couldn't actually ever use the psychic power.

Look at the Deep Strike rule. It is the only place where "Deep Strike Reserves" is defined, and that definition is "arriving by deep strike". Models using GoI are arriving by Deep Strike, thus they are arriving from Deep Strike Reserves.

So would rites of teleportation trigger if you use Skies of Fury deployment from a stormraven.

So would rites of teleportation trigger if you use Skies of Fury deployment from a stormraven.

Technically, yes, due to the wording of Rites, which would allow a NSF unit that just arrived that turn via Deep Strike to run-shoot or shoot-run. No other benefit would confer.

SJ

Unfortunately, GK are a monobuild codex right now if you want to play without allies. The variations of stuff that works are VERY limited.

Though, you can use Draigo with his guaranteed GOF to fuel your allied deathstars.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
:( I think I got confused. I am going to pick up the Codex this weekend and revisit after I know what I am reading.

Bottom line remains "Buy Terminators over PAGK".

PAGK certainly have a place in some lists. They aren't bad - terms are just much better priced. I've always been stasfied with my 10 mans with 2 psycannons in a rhino (sometimes I just want to use my modles). It dishes out some hurt though it is pretty dang expensive. It's main advantage is the rhino gives you protection against deep strikes when you absolutely need to start something on the board. They are great for cleaning up trash that might take terms 2 turns to deal with. With the amount of stuff I usually put on the enemy turn 1 a strike squad is usually down the list in terms of target priority and if allowed to mount up 2 psycannons on enemy lines they will cause a little more damage than terms for their cost. I also like the fact that my model count goes up significantly when I use them (I know this isn't a very important thing) still - it makes me feel better. This weekend I'm actually going to roll a 0 TDA army in a semi competitive friendly just to see how it goes. I am not expecting great results. I just want to use my recently painted rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

So would rites of teleportation trigger if you use Skies of Fury deployment from a stormraven.

Technically, yes, due to the wording of Rites, which would allow a NSF unit that just arrived that turn via Deep Strike to run-shoot or shoot-run. No other benefit would confer.

SJ

So this would confer to a dreadnought dropped from a SR?

Probably.

SJ