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Yeah, the comment from Faeit seemed right up GW's alley on things they'd do, hence why I shared it. It just makes a lot of sense with what GW would do.

I think they're more likely to kill the SoBs than give'em a dex. Compete with third party competition or...Marbo'em?

 Red Marine wrote:
I think they're more likely to kill the SoBs than give'em a dex. Compete with third party competition or...Marbo'em?

Well if they kill them then we finally have an answer on what they'll do with them. It won't be one we like, but it'll be an answer. And at this point that's all I want from them.

 Red Marine wrote:
I think they're more likely to kill the SoBs than give'em a dex. Compete with third party competition or...Marbo'em?

So... the fact that not only did they used to regularly sit on old codices for literally a decade sometimes, and the fact that Sisters have gotten periodically updated, and the fact that multiple independent rumor sources over the years have indicated that Sisters are in fact still in the works holds any value to your opinion?

 DarkLink wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
I think they're more likely to kill the SoBs than give'em a dex. Compete with third party competition or...Marbo'em?

So... the fact that not only did they used to regularly sit on old codices for literally a decade sometimes, and the fact that Sisters have gotten periodically updated, and the fact that multiple independent rumor sources over the years have indicated that Sisters are in fact still in the works holds any value to your opinion?

Sisters are the only army that has gotten two rule sets with no new models (and hasn't had a single model releases since 3rd). Additionally the last update removed things from the army because the models were OOP, and I have a feeling was a major reason why it was released (basically to ensure no holes were left open to 3rd party companies to fill).

If they were getting bad codex updates but got models I could at least accept it as something. I mean Tyranids are pretty bad off on rules but are at least real updates. Sisters are on life support and the only new stuff we've seen has been art, and now lore. And don't get me wrong, it's nice art and I enjoyed the Lore, but if you can't be assed to putting out a real release out for them, what's the point of keeping them around? Either update them, or drop them. If you drop them you can always bring them back later as their own faction when you've worked out what you need to work out, but for Emperor's sake, do something because at this point I tired of being teased with releases with no substance.

All the technology, the tools and talent are there to do Sisters right, they just need to fething do it or own up to the fact that they don't have a fething clue what to do with them and drop the army entirely. This half-assed gak is just killing me, it's killing potential sales and it's killing a fanbase that is dropping off like the model support is. If they're going to drop the army the best time would have been at the launch of 7th, but the second best time is right now. Do it now while they can still just melt the tiny range down and resell it to Privateer Press or someone else who still uses metal and quick dicking around a customer base who has been waiting for GW to gak or get off the pot already.

I really don't want to see Sisters go away, but even more than that I don't want to be stuck wasting my time hoping that something is coming out when it never will be.

The lack of any real rules for the Sisters in the Shield of Baal is rather telling I think. There may be some love on the art side, maybe even the lore team's side (from what I heard Phil did the Sisters fluff and if true he did a damn fine job in my book. It's the best we've gotten in a very long time), but there were no rules, no options, no alternate FOCs built into the book to give Sisters something to play with or options to change things up. That shows me there are two possible scenarios there: 1) the rules team doesn't want anything to do with Sisters and won't be touching them anytime soon, or 2) the codex is done and they didn't want to mine it for stuff to put into the campaign and weren't able to come up with other things to add to the campaign that were different.

And sad to say, 1 is looking a lot more likely than 2.

@ClockworkZionMade

DE were in a similar boat prior to their re-boot and their players probably had similar thoughts of either drop the army or update it.

Though if GW droppes the SoB they will most likely relagate the SoB to background characters like the Arbites. There in the background but not on the table top.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And some speculation from the comments on Faeit that I think makes sense (based on rumors of releases) by Chris Royles:

GW are simply responding to mArket and competitor risk.

GW Knights = Dreamforge Leviathon
GW Greater Deamon = Creature Caster
GW SoB = Raging Heroes Sisters if Mercy.

Timing is far too coincidental.
GW cannot afford for any one of the above to gain market share and do a better job.

Except, Dreamforge already does do a better job. I have DFG's Leviathan model and it's clearly better engineered than what GW produces. Seriously, it's an amazing kit. What's holding DFG back is the fact that it's still a 1-man shop, so it can't scale like GW can. But with WGF's plastic production and distribution capability, they're definitely deserving to be on the radar.

I'm not sure about Creature Caster, I don't follow them.

As for Raging Heroes - I do know RH is/was way behind on their TGG Kickstarter, and I don't think their Sisters project has even started. Besides, isn't RH only metal / resin? They're not doing plastic, so they can't ever hit the price/quality point that GW does. If they're just going to match the current GW AS pricing, they'll be cut off at the knees if/when GW ever does plastic Sisters.

Still, competition is good. I'd love for DFG to go after the Reaver as their next trick.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Still, competition is good. I'd love for DFG to go after the Reaver as their next trick.

Hell, competition is more than good if it's making GW move their ass so much they are (according to the rumor) considering releasing SoB stuff. They have already changed their business model a lot with the constant codex releases, the many updates, the (even if many don't like them) Dataslates, the campaign books with pretty starter boxes. GW actually has to work and make us want to throw our money at them

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And sad to say, 1 is looking a lot more likely than 2.

Even if they do drop the SoB, we still have the digidex to go from. They'd never really be dropped, just never updated. Give me dataslates, I don't see a new codex coming anytime soon and am honestly afraid of what it might be if it does show up.

 fox-light713 wrote:
@ClockworkZionMade

DE were in a similar boat prior to their re-boot and their players probably had similar thoughts of either drop the army or update it.

Though if GW droppes the SoB they will most likely relagate the SoB to background characters like the Arbites. There in the background but not on the table top.

DE didn't get two half-assed codexes that removed options, one of which was WD only and was OOP for about two years before the second came along.

And I agree, they'd be relegated to Arbite or Mechanicus status.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And some speculation from the comments on Faeit that I think makes sense (based on rumors of releases) by Chris Royles:

GW are simply responding to mArket and competitor risk.

GW Knights = Dreamforge Leviathon
GW Greater Deamon = Creature Caster
GW SoB = Raging Heroes Sisters if Mercy.

Timing is far too coincidental.
GW cannot afford for any one of the above to gain market share and do a better job.

Those were my thoughts exactly.

Why are we hearing rumours about Sisters but nothing specific yet? Because Raging Heroes are delaying the start of their Sisters of Mercy project, but it should be anytime soon (latest was "start of 2015").

A White Dwarf preview / Hint / release when Sisters of Mercy Kickstarter launches would not be a surprise for me at all....

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Except, Dreamforge already does do a better job. I have DFG's Leviathan model and it's clearly better engineered than what GW produces. Seriously, it's an amazing kit. What's holding DFG back is the fact that it's still a 1-man shop, so it can't scale like GW can. But with WGF's plastic production and distribution capability, they're definitely deserving to be on the radar.

I'm not sure about Creature Caster, I don't follow them.

As for Raging Heroes - I do know RH is/was way behind on their TGG Kickstarter, and I don't think their Sisters project has even started. Besides, isn't RH only metal / resin? They're not doing plastic, so they can't ever hit the price/quality point that GW does. If they're just going to match the current GW AS pricing, they'll be cut off at the knees if/when GW ever does plastic Sisters.

Still, competition is good. I'd love for DFG to go after the Reaver as their next trick.

I think that it's more of a case of availability: sure Dreamforge's one is cheaper, but GW have their "own" new and shiny. Not so much with Adepta Sororitas when the RH Sisters come out...

I mean, put it this way, before the Digi-Codex came out for sisters and it was the Dual-White-Dwarf set up, i played in at least 2 GW stores with a paper-printed remake of that awful thing. No complaints, more like a bit of pity...
But if you rocked up and placed your Leviathan on the board, i'm not sure they'd agree...

Same here for Sisters. I doubt they'd comment too much on a Raging Heroes army being fielded UNLESS new GW plastic sisters are released (regardless of 200% price hikes)...

As for:

Besides, isn't RH only metal / resin? They're not doing plastic, so they can't ever hit the price/quality point that GW does. If they're just going to match the current GW AS pricing, they'll be cut off at the knees if/when GW ever does plastic Sisters.

As fox-light said:
"RH Tough Girls kickstarter the most expensive troop option was $25 USD for 5 Models [$50 for 10]"

They're actually "reasonably priced" (compared to GW) and yes metal/resin only, but from the first set i have already received, definitely good quality (and SO MUCH better than current GW Sisters. Probably aproximate the new Dark Elves in quality).
Only downside: the brittleness (weakness) of resin. They would be in pieces if carried in a Icecream box. But i do not see much issue if they are in a standard well-packed Carry-case.
Might be of interest:
http://www.tggks.com/metal-or-resin-heroines/
They make a compelling argument for metal :p

 pretre wrote:
Warlord trait, fearless, hit and run, etc. so on.

Well, none of those strikes me as really that useful. I mean, fearless is nice, yes. Hit and run will not add anything to the only unit that can keep pace with Celestine, as the seraphim already have it. The warlord trait is very meh. Especially on a character that will likely not stay in the middle of your army.

 pretre wrote:
Not to mention you can guarantee your opponent can't get slay the warlord.

Uh? They can, and quite easily. Inflict 1 S6 wound to Celestine. Then do it again next turn. Bang, she is dead.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I really don't want to see Sisters go away, but even more than that I don't want to be stuck wasting my time hoping that something is coming out when it never will be.

I know I talked about this already, but just stop wasting your time by hoping for some release, and start using that time to think about the next awesome addition to your new Tyranid project (or whatever wargaming projects get you excited). If for some reason you cannot play your Tyranid, or want a change of pace, you still have your Sisters.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I really don't want to see Sisters go away, but even more than that I don't want to be stuck wasting my time hoping that something is coming out when it never will be.

I know I talked about this already, but just stop wasting your time by hoping for some release, and start using that time to think about the next awesome addition to your new Tyranid project (or whatever wargaming projects get you excited). If for some reason you cannot play your Tyranid, or want a change of pace, you still have your Sisters.

You do understand that I can be doing other projects and still be hoping for Sisters to get released right? Doing one doesn't keep the other from being a thing. I mean I'm on here right now in the wee hours of the morning before work while eating breakfast talking about an army I really like but keep seeing being kicking in the ribs for no reason by the company that owns it and still have Tyranids to paint when I have more time later in the day, and have some new X-Wing stuff.

And inversely, just because I want to see something happen with the Sisters doesn't mean my gaming and hobby life is on hold.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You do understand that I can be doing other projects and still be hoping for Sisters to get released right?

Of course. I hope that the Sisters will get released too. I just do not feel like I am wasting time doing so. You do, apparently.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I love Celestine and she is my default Warlord. There was ways to help keep her alive such as keeping some searaphim around her to be the closest to the enemy so they can get shot first.

Also I find her to not be a melee beatstick. She works best as a basic infantry killer not as a character killer.

She doesn't go after Chaptermaster MC Hammer she kills the devastator squad or thunderfire cannon hiding in the enemy's DZ. Her high mobility and str 5 ap 3 sword that is also a heavy flamer allows her to really remove certain battlefield threats well.

Pretty much. Is a 2+/4++ so worthless these days?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
I think they're more likely to kill the SoBs than give'em a dex. Compete with third party competition or...Marbo'em?

Well if they kill them then we finally have an answer on what they'll do with them. It won't be one we like, but it'll be an answer. And at this point that's all I want from them.

Eh, if they do, then Raging Heroes will get my money. The ball's in your court, GW.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Is a 2+/4++ so worthless these days?

It is very good on a T5/6 model, sure. On a T3 model… not sufficient to survive much if the opponent has a lot of S6+ available.

In my last 5 games I only lost her permanently once and that was because I was tabled

I learned really quickly how to keep her alive. One such trick is to leap frog her through CC so you don't get shot and then Hit and Run out and keep going where you need her to go. This is one of the many ways Hit and Run helps her.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


Except, Dreamforge already does do a better job. I have DFG's Leviathan model and it's clearly better engineered than what GW produces. Seriously, it's an amazing kit. What's holding DFG back is the fact that it's still a 1-man shop, so it can't scale like GW can. But with WGF's plastic production and distribution capability, they're definitely deserving to be on the radar.

+1 for DFG. I own 3 Leviathans - 2 std and 1 Mortis. I absolutely love them. They're engineered so well, and are lots of fun to both build and paint up. Even though I can't use them at my local GW store, the guy who runs it said "Damn... those are pretty sweet man" in comparison to the Knights.

I own a bunch of Eisenkern also, not doing much with them, other than maybe making a FLGS IG army out of 'em

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You do understand that I can be doing other projects and still be hoping for Sisters to get released right?

Of course. I hope that the Sisters will get released too. I just do not feel like I am wasting time doing so. You do, apparently.

If the army gets dropped the waste is the time I spent work on an army that's dead. Don't get me wrong, I love the army but when it keeps looking more and more likely that they'll get dropped it's hard to feel like the time you give the army is being used well.

Well, I do not work on my Sisters anymore. I guess that is why we have differing views. I feel like my army is complete enough as is, that is why I would rather be able to continue to use it if I fancy that.
How many Sisters do you have?

Squats vanished in the change from 2nd to 3rd edtion, no models, no rules, no mentions in the fiction. I'm of the opinion that if they going to squat Sisters they wouldn't mention them in any 7th edition books. They'd pretend they never existed.

Adepta Sororitas do have a digital codex, that they bothered to updates after 7th edition came out, and 27 other products in the GW store. They were in the Shield of Baal Campaign fiction.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, I do not work on my Sisters anymore. I guess that is why we have differing views. I feel like my army is complete enough as is, that is why I would rather be able to continue to use it if I fancy that.
How many Sisters do you have?

I'll give you 50$ for the no longer loved ladies. It's a good deal...you should take it...

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, I do not work on my Sisters anymore. I guess that is why we have differing views. I feel like my army is complete enough as is, that is why I would rather be able to continue to use it if I fancy that.
How many Sisters do you have?

I'll give you 50$ for the no longer loved ladies. It's a good deal...you should take it...

I'd take him up on that offer.

For even zealous, xenophobic, hateful, kill all who don't agree with you fanatical chicks need love too.

dracpanzer wrote:Even if they do drop the SoB, we still have the digidex to go from. They'd never really be dropped, just never updated.

Based on my WFB Dogs of War experience, this works for about 1 edition. Then GW tweaks the power curve, and the army simply cannot keep up on an even points basis. And then there are the new rules introductions - at some point, the effort in Houseruling exceeds ones desire to keep plugging away.
____

BlackTalos wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Except, Dreamforge already does do a better job. I have DFG's Leviathan model and it's clearly better engineered than what GW produces. Seriously, it's an amazing kit. What's holding DFG back is the fact that it's still a 1-man shop, so it can't scale like GW can. But with WGF's plastic production and distribution capability, they're definitely deserving to be on the radar.

As for Raging Heroes - I do know RH is/was way behind on their TGG Kickstarter, and I don't think their Sisters project has even started. Besides, isn't RH only metal / resin? They're not doing plastic, so they can't ever hit the price/quality point that GW does. If they're just going to match the current GW AS pricing, they'll be cut off at the knees if/when GW ever does plastic Sisters.

Still, competition is good. I'd love for DFG to go after the Reaver as their next trick.

I think that it's more of a case of availability: sure Dreamforge's one is cheaper, but GW have their "own" new and shiny. Not so much with Adepta Sororitas when the RH Sisters come out...

I mean, put it this way, before the Digi-Codex came out for sisters and it was the Dual-White-Dwarf set up, i played in at least 2 GW stores with a paper-printed remake of that awful thing. No complaints, more like a bit of pity...
But if you rocked up and placed your Leviathan on the board, i'm not sure they'd agree...

Same here for Sisters. I doubt they'd comment too much on a Raging Heroes army being fielded UNLESS new GW plastic sisters are released (regardless of 200% price hikes)...

As for:

Besides, isn't RH only metal / resin? They're not doing plastic, so they can't ever hit the price/quality point that GW does.

As fox-light said:
"RH Tough Girls kickstarter the most expensive troop option was $25 USD for 5 Models [$50 for 10]"

They're actually "reasonably priced" (compared to GW) and yes metal/resin only, but from the first set i have already received, definitely good quality (and SO MUCH better than current GW Sisters. Probably aproximate the new Dark Elves in quality).

They make a compelling argument for metal :p

GW has a shiny new Warhound? Or are you talking about the smaller, static and merely adequate Knight?

And really, I don't even need new Sisters - the 1000 pts I have is more than adequate when paired with other Imperial support. If Jes ain't sculpting 'em, I don't want 'em.

I don't play at GW stores, so I can't say for sure. The Leviathan has the Rule of Cool, tho. RH's Sisters are still "wait and see".

Aside from Sisters of Battle, GW metal infantry is still cheaper (and better): 10 Tallarn for $40; 10 Valhallan / Vostroyan / Mordian / ASAL for $35; 12 Chancers for $35.. I'm still on the fence whether I should order a set of Last Chancers for completeness sake - they're very well-priced compared to that overpriced RH trash.

Seriously, though, metal Sisters are grossly overpriced, but that's because they're priced per point compared to Guardsmen. When you consider that $80 worth of Sisters and $35 worth of Guardsmen are points-equivalent, Sisters are fairly priced. If RH ever gets their Sisters project off the ground, GW may even revisit their Sisters pricing.

All of my Eldar and Guard are metal. Nobody needs to sell me on that!
____

ncshooter426 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Except, Dreamforge already does do a better job. I have DFG's Leviathan model and it's clearly better engineered than what GW produces. Seriously, it's an amazing kit. What's holding DFG back is the fact that it's still a 1-man shop, so it can't scale like GW can. But with WGF's plastic production and distribution capability, they're definitely deserving to be on the radar.

+1 for DFG. I own 3 Leviathans - 2 std and 1 Mortis. I absolutely love them. They're engineered so well, and are lots of fun to both build and paint up. Even though I can't use them at my local GW store, the guy who runs it said "Damn... those are pretty sweet man" in comparison to the Knights.

I own a bunch of Eisenkern also, not doing much with them, other than maybe making a FLGS IG army out of 'em

I have just the one, and wish I had gotten more of the arm options. It's just such a sweet, sweet kit.

I do want to convert mine into more of a robot than a Titan, so there is some insanity there.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, I do not work on my Sisters anymore. I guess that is why we have differing views. I feel like my army is complete enough as is, that is why I would rather be able to continue to use it if I fancy that.
How many Sisters do you have?

I keep an inventory actually:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I love Celestine and she is my default Warlord. There was ways to help keep her alive such as keeping some searaphim around her to be the closest to the enemy so they can get shot first.

Also I find her to not be a melee beatstick. She works best as a basic infantry killer not as a character killer.

She doesn't go after Chaptermaster MC Hammer she kills the devastator squad or thunderfire cannon hiding in the enemy's DZ. Her high mobility and str 5 ap 3 sword that is also a heavy flamer allows her to really remove certain battlefield threats well.

Pretty much. Is a 2+/4++ so worthless these days?

Nah, it's good, but Celestine isn't on par with the big boys 1v1. 4 wounds, 3++, eternal warrior is kind of a minimum.

 DarkLink wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I love Celestine and she is my default Warlord. There was ways to help keep her alive such as keeping some searaphim around her to be the closest to the enemy so they can get shot first.

Also I find her to not be a melee beatstick. She works best as a basic infantry killer not as a character killer.

She doesn't go after Chaptermaster MC Hammer she kills the devastator squad or thunderfire cannon hiding in the enemy's DZ. Her high mobility and str 5 ap 3 sword that is also a heavy flamer allows her to really remove certain battlefield threats well.

Pretty much. Is a 2+/4++ so worthless these days?

Nah, it's good, but Celestine isn't on par with the big boys 1v1. 4 wounds, 3++, eternal warrior is kind of a minimum.

Exactly! Keep her away from the enemies big scary beatsticks and watch her clear out chaff like no tomorrow

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
How many Sisters do you have?

I keep an inventory actually:

Spoiler:

Nice! I have roughly half as many Sisters infantry, but no vehicles allocated to mine; no Repentia, either. My Inquisition support is very different, though. Still, good stuff there!

But wait, no slave Sisters? I have a few of those that I got as bitz, for Objective Markers.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I keep an inventory actually:

Spoiler:

Woah, you have some strange model counts. Only 3 flamers, 3 heavy bolters, 2 bolt pistols seraphims, yet two Celestine?

I do not know how you play them, but I just love my 4-flamers squad. Just so thematic, and so cool when it works right! Did I told you that last time I played, the 4 flamers removed a full 5-man Grey Knight terminator unit from the table in one shooting phase? I guess I did, but that was so cool I cannot stop talking about it!
Similar stuff for heavy bolters. With rending they are pretty cool!

But honestly, apart from getting a few more flamers, seraphims, and on extra heavy bolter, do you really need to add new stuff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
But wait, no slave Sisters? I have a few of those that I got as bitz, for Objective Markers.

This does not exist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ncshooter426 wrote:
I'll give you 50$ for the no longer loved ladies.

It is not only a terrible deal (I could get many times that easily!), but I still do love them. Even if GW squat them, I would still like to play them from time to time with marines rules or something. I painted them, I converted most of the Superior models, the tanks and Celestine, I even got them some awesome, awesome DCA count-as. I really like the models. I am not letting them go. And I will be jumping back to them if they get an update. I am just not waiting in despair for it to happen anymore.

 adamsouza wrote:
Squats vanished in the change from 2nd to 3rd edtion, no models, no rules, no mentions in the fiction. I'm of the opinion that if they going to squat Sisters they wouldn't mention them in any 7th edition books. They'd pretend they never existed.

Adepta Sororitas do have a digital codex, that they bothered to updates after 7th edition came out, and 27 other products in the GW store. They were in the Shield of Baal Campaign fiction.

1 click bundles are not products.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I keep an inventory actually:

Spoiler:

Woah, you have some strange model counts. Only 3 flamers, 3 heavy bolters, 2 bolt pistols seraphims, yet two Celestine?

2nd Celestine was picked up to be a conversion. She actually just needs to be painted and based and she's playable.

I never ran Retributors and with how limited their AoF are now I don't see a reason to pick up more. I ran Heavy Flamer/Melta in my BSS squads hence that model count. I probably am actually wrong on the count for Seraphim as I know I can run a decent sized squad, or it's the separation of the different types I have that makes the count seem low.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But honestly, apart from getting a few more flamers, seraphims, and on extra heavy bolter, do you really need to add new stuff?

If Sisters get plastics I'm doing a full on re-start on my army and relegating the metal ones to Apoc only (to buff my numbers for big games).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
But wait, no slave Sisters? I have a few of those that I got as bitz, for Objective Markers.

This does not exist.

They were a Dark Eldar thing only.