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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




what's the best delivery platform for my purifiers? I've wrote up two lists both featuring 20 purifiers in four squads of five and am currently debating weather to use storm ravens or sink a lot of points in either BA or SW allies for some drop pods?

They will be ran as part of a NSF.

I had also considered rhinos? but is this at all viable?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

Don't purifiers have Deep Strike simply by virtue of being Grey Knights? Or is that just strike squads?
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Don't purifiers have Deep Strike simply by virtue of being Grey Knights? Or is that just strike squads?


Purifiers don't have Deep Strike. You're thinking of Strike Squads.


I usually just run purifiers in Rhinos. It's a valid tactic and you can use your NOVA power in the psychic phase and still pop-smoke or shoot psycannons in the shooting phase (or move an extra 6"). Plus Rhinos are cheap.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Zimko wrote:


Purifiers don't have Deep Strike. You're thinking of Strike Squads.


I usually just run purifiers in Rhinos. It's a valid tactic and you can use your NOVA power in the psychic phase and still pop-smoke or shoot psycannons in the shooting phase (or move an extra 6"). Plus Rhinos are cheap.


Glad to hear some one is having success with rhinos, it would certainly free some points up to spend elsewhere in the army. Any advice on how to increase the survivability in order to get close enough to the enemy to unleash cleansing flame?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/12 16:41:10


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Fantome wrote:
Zimko wrote:


Purifiers don't have Deep Strike. You're thinking of Strike Squads.


I usually just run purifiers in Rhinos. It's a valid tactic and you can use your NOVA power in the psychic phase and still pop-smoke or shoot psycannons in the shooting phase (or move an extra 6"). Plus Rhinos are cheap.


Glad to hear some one is having success with rhinos, it would certainly free some points up to spend elsewhere in the army. Any advice on how to increase the survivability in order to get close enough to the enemy to unleash cleansing flame?


Powerfield Librarian, obviously. He goes with every Imperial list.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Drop-pod allies have a secondary benefit of filling gaps in the GKs very limited bag of tricks.

I will say right now that with a lot of experience invested in playing current GK their single biggest issue is simply number of bodies in a format full of objective-based games. If you are going to run Maelstom, BAO, etc... style games, you would do VERY well to ally in Wolves or such, get the Pods for your Purifiers and as a (not-at-all)-tax you get a couple min Grey Hunter Squads (maybe with a storm-shield Pack Leader), to hold back-field objectives.

It makes the entire list work MUCH better than it ever did as pure GK.

Also, do not expect your Purifiers to be amazing. They are an incredible distraction and psychological threat, and yes, against certain armies Cleansing Flame works, but in dozens of games I have literally seen them earn back their points twice.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 AnomanderRake wrote:


Powerfield Librarian, obviously. He goes with every Imperial list.


Could you elaborate of this point? is the powerfield in SM Codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Drop-pod allies have a secondary benefit of filling gaps in the GKs very limited bag of tricks.

I will say right now that with a lot of experience invested in playing current GK their single biggest issue is simply number of bodies in a format full of objective-based games. If you are going to run Maelstom, BAO, etc... style games, you would do VERY well to ally in Wolves or such, get the Pods for your Purifiers and as a (not-at-all)-tax you get a couple min Grey Hunter Squads (maybe with a storm-shield Pack Leader), to hold back-field objectives.

It makes the entire list work MUCH better than it ever did as pure GK.

Also, do not expect your Purifiers to be amazing. They are an incredible distraction and psychological threat, and yes, against certain armies Cleansing Flame works, but in dozens of games I have literally seen them earn back their points twice.


Do you have any recommendations instead of purifiers? perhaps trying to squeeze a squad of interceptors into the list? or would you even swap the purifiers for the interceptors?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/12 17:33:44


 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

Fantome wrote:
Zimko wrote:


Purifiers don't have Deep Strike. You're thinking of Strike Squads.


I usually just run purifiers in Rhinos. It's a valid tactic and you can use your NOVA power in the psychic phase and still pop-smoke or shoot psycannons in the shooting phase (or move an extra 6"). Plus Rhinos are cheap.


Glad to hear some one is having success with rhinos, it would certainly free some points up to spend elsewhere in the army. Any advice on how to increase the survivability in order to get close enough to the enemy to unleash cleansing flame?


Well, I usually give the Rhinos dozer blades and hide them in terrain as much as possible.

While being a fun unit, they aren't very competitive against many lists. Flying Hive Tyrants, Wave Serpents and Wraithknights are a few effective counters that are common in the current competitive meta. They're extremely strong against other types of flyers and infantry so it really depends on what you're facing.

I think allying in Space Wolves would be the most competitive way to run Purifiers. Having drop pods allows you to precisely drop them where they'll be most effective and the Space Wolves will give you more bodies for objective grabbing.

If you're looking for a pure GK list that is competitive then I wouldn't use Purifiers at all. Stick to Terminators, Librariand, Dreadknights and a single Interceptor Squad on an ADL for comms relay.

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Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Fantome wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Powerfield Librarian, obviously. He goes with every Imperial list.


Could you elaborate of this point? is the powerfield in SM Codex


The Powerfield is a Dark Angels wargear item that grants a 4+ Invulnerable save to the bearer and any friendly squad within 3" of him. Cluster up a bunch of Rhinos around a DA Librarian on a Bike and you'll have 4+ Inv Rhinos. Until the Vindicare comes along to remove the problem, of course.

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

If you are committing to Purifiers, then you really need to go all the way and get drop pods into the army. A minimum pack of Blood Claws and a naked Rune Priest will suffice.

Stormravens are horrible delivery platforms because you will be losing a 200+ point flyer to deliver, at most, two 5 man combat squads of purifiers. And you will lose your Stormraven while its in Hover mode.

Unless you are planning on dropping the Purifiers out the back, which leaves the Stormraven likely not having any enemies to shoot at because they're all behind it.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Grey Templar wrote:
If you are committing to Purifiers, then you really need to go all the way and get drop pods into the army. A minimum pack of Blood Claws and a naked Rune Priest will suffice.

Stormravens are horrible delivery platforms because you will be losing a 200+ point flyer to deliver, at most, two 5 man combat squads of purifiers. And you will lose your Stormraven while its in Hover mode.

Unless you are planning on dropping the Purifiers out the back, which leaves the Stormraven likely not having any enemies to shoot at because they're all behind it.


This was my thinking

BA libby in TA

2x 5 man tac squads with a melta and a combi-melta of the segt.

3x drop pods (2 for 2 10 man purifier squads, combat squatted. and the third for the tac marines hopefuly to crack some armour)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Fantome wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Powerfield Librarian, obviously. He goes with every Imperial list.


Could you elaborate of this point? is the powerfield in SM Codex


The Powerfield is a Dark Angels wargear item that grants a 4+ Invulnerable save to the bearer and any friendly squad within 3" of him. Cluster up a bunch of Rhinos around a DA Librarian on a Bike and you'll have 4+ Inv Rhinos. Until the Vindicare comes along to remove the problem, of course.


it's an option but I think if I'm forced to use allies I'll go the whole hog and use drop pods or even grav cents.

I have the DA dex though so I'll have a closer look and see what else they could potentially add, I'll admit I discounted them originally as they have no FA drop pods (although if the codex came out now it almost certainly would... but that's another argument..)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you stick the powerfield libby in a rhino to increase it''s footprint? I vaguely remember this getting FAQed or was a change in 7th but can't quite recall.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/12 19:05:07


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As has been said, I would reconsider Purifiers at all if you are committed to PURE GK, or go in on them with Wolves/Blood Angels Pods only if you accept that they will be part of an amazing distraction, and not the killy OMG OP tactic that some make them out to be.

If you were debating pulling them, I probably would not replace them with Interceptors, and if I did, it would be strictly ten of them, with two Incinerators manning a comms relay. Turn 1 they help ensure your entire army comes in, Turn 2 they shunt up, and lay some templates down on anything tempting that happens to be a suitable target.

Here is the Purifier problem. They, and Cleansing Flame work best on Turn 1 when units are clumped in a deployment. This way they hit a LOT of units if placed well and exponentially increase the potential they have to earn their points, or then some (and/or panic an opponent). This means them in Rhinos diminishes their potential.

BUT... if on Turn 1 you don't happen to also drop a bunch of other tempting threats into your opponents lines (say bad rolls) they will get torn to shreds immediately.

As such, the Purifier drop is one of the most random "strong" moves I have seen in recent 40k. IF you manage to succeed getting it off/don't get denied, you're making a bunch of rolls, and your opponent will usually get a mountain of saves to make. You get that one shot for the randomness Gods to either make you feel like a king or a chump.

Great players usually build lists and work hard to mitigate randomness as a factor in victory, so... yeah. :-p

Honestly, three Dreadknights on the table (no reserve rolls), shunting into the enemy front-line will cause all the alpha strike terror you usually need. And if those Purifier points are spent on an Imperial Knight, you know he'll likely be earning back his points.

Hell, i've even allied in Wolves and taken some TWC as a scary "second wave" and seen better results than Purifiers.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Do you not find that the extra attack on the purifiers profile helps justify their price a little more? or do you find they simply get shot off the board before it has time to have much effect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/12 20:39:49


 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







Purifiers bring SOOO much to the table. But we run into two issues, delivery and tax.

You want a fast way to deliver them so they are effective, they don't have deepstrike base though which instantly mean you have to pay some kind of cost. 35 points for a rhino which is... meh, an ally if your serious but that's more points and if you're taking allies there are already stronger builds.

So most lists don't see them because a fluffy list with them is gimped to such an extent and competitive lists there are better builds.

If they were troops (I wish) or had deepstrike they would be instant takes, but they don't. Just like Purgators who also needed deepstrike.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Quickjager wrote:
Purifiers bring SOOO much to the table. But we run into two issues, delivery and tax.

You want a fast way to deliver them so they are effective, they don't have deepstrike base though which instantly mean you have to pay some kind of cost. 35 points for a rhino which is... meh, an ally if your serious but that's more points and if you're taking allies there are already stronger builds.

So most lists don't see them because a fluffy list with them is gimped to such an extent and competitive lists there are better builds.

If they were troops (I wish) or had deepstrike they would be instant takes, but they don't. Just like Purgators who also needed deepstrike.


What stronger allied builds do you refer to? a Draigo Cent star? or something else?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Fantome wrote:
 Quickjager wrote:
Purifiers bring SOOO much to the table. But we run into two issues, delivery and tax.

You want a fast way to deliver them so they are effective, they don't have deepstrike base though which instantly mean you have to pay some kind of cost. 35 points for a rhino which is... meh, an ally if your serious but that's more points and if you're taking allies there are already stronger builds.

So most lists don't see them because a fluffy list with them is gimped to such an extent and competitive lists there are better builds.

If they were troops (I wish) or had deepstrike they would be instant takes, but they don't. Just like Purgators who also needed deepstrike.


What stronger allied builds do you refer to? a Draigo Cent star? or something else?


In terms of formats where you can only take one ally, an Imperial Knight, or Sisters of Battle arguably fill gaps in GK tactics, more than anything else. Luckily the Pods come with close-second options in Space Wolves or Blood Angels.

Sad, but honest truth, is that GK is NOT a full Codex. Its an amazing book to ally with, or have as allies, but it has very, very very few options of worth on its own and has huge gaps strategically.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Fantome wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you stick the powerfield libby in a rhino to increase it''s footprint? I vaguely remember this getting FAQed or was a change in 7th but can't quite recall.


That's been FAQed out. (I ran a flying circus army with a mix of DA and Elysians with a powerfield-bubble Valkyrie once, apparently that army concept was too much)

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






I'm not a huge fan of Stormraven with GK, but not because I don't like Stormravens -- it's just that they are expensive units (200 points) and with GK, your unit count is already so low.

I like Stormravens because they bring reasonable antiair, decent air-to-ground, reasonable transportaion (the extra dreadnought slot in the back is cool), and high durability (being a flyer). Plus it's physically large unit that you can use to block access to objectives. But 200 is a lot of points, when you're talking about what's left to spend in a GK army.

Just me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/13 04:21:54


 
   
 
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