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I've seen this argument played out in one of the other posts. Some people have said that you can GoI/SoF which would trigger RoT ability to run & shoot.

GoI / SoF allows you to deploy via Deep Striking.

RoT triggers if a unit is is arriving via Deep Strike Reserves.

So can this work?

If you are required to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves, you must be in deep strike reserves.

Skies/Gate does not put the unit is deep strike reserves.

Deep strike (also referred to as Deep Strike reserve) follows the same rules.

The BRB specifically states that in either instance, either deep strike or deep strike reserve, it's the same thing.

As such, yes. Rites of Teleportation would trigger from Gate or Skies of Fury.

This was argued here... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613892.page

rites of teleportation requires you to arrive from deep strike reserves.

deep strike reserves is a unit placed in reserves and arriving by deepstrike as per the rules as written in the rulebook.

gate of infinity allows an unit on the board to be removed and arrive on the board by deepstrike.

one requires a specific form of arriving from reserves.

the other is a method of placing models onto the table.

deep striking and deep strike reserves are not the same thing. One is a method of placement, the other is a method of placement when arriving from reserves.

Are you deep striking but not in reserves? You are arriving by deepstrike.

Are you deep striking and in reserves? You are arriving from deep strike reserves.

Without being in reserves when arriving from deep strike you cannot be in deep strike reserves, as it specifically states :

When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

Please notice the requirement of being placed in reserves for deep strike reserves.

skies of fury also is not reserves based so would not trigger rites of teleportation because the squad inside the transport is not in reserves, it is embarked and out of reserves. In the case of skies of fury it does not even use the word "arrive" in regards to how it deepstrikes. The models are placed using the rules for deepstrike, but they are in no form arriving from deep strike reserves as they were not in reserves.

as such normally gate of infinity/skies of fury could not trigger Rites of Teleportation by the rules with one exception.

if you mishap and the unit ends up in ongoing reserves, when it can be placed next by deepstrike it will be arriving from reserves by deepstrike, or arriving from deep strike reserves.

You could purposefully try to mishap your unit for the 50% chance to go into ongoing reserves, but probably not worth it in most cases.

Per the BRB, Deep Strike and Deep Strike Reserves are the same thing. For both Gate of Infinity and Skies of Fury, the Deep Striking unit is arriving via Deep Strike (aka Deep Strike Reserves). In both cases, the unit is not on the table at the moment Deep Strike is occurring (Gate has the unit removed before DS, Skies has the unit embarked). Rites is triggered by a NSF unit arriving via Deep Strike (aka Deep Strike reserves). As has been argued before, Drop Pods trigger Rites, Gate triggers Rites, Skies triggers Rites, Jump Pack Assault would trigger Rites, a mole machine would trigger Rites.

GW failed to distinguish between methods of Deep Strike in 7th, and made both Deep Strike and Deep Strike Reserves the exact same thing. Per RAW, simply using the DS rules to arrive on the table will trigger Rites if the arriving unit is from an NSF.

Maybe in 8th, GW will be less clumsy with their rules, and differentiate between methods of arrival. However, in 7th, they did not.

SJ

your first statement is actually false.

per the BRB deep strike and deep strike reserves are different.

one is arriving by deep strike.

the other is arriving by deep strike from reserves.

if the model is arriving by deep strike, but was not in reserves it is not arriving from deep strike reserves as per the BRB.

Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

"Deep Strike Reserves" is completely different to a "Deep Striking Unit", and different to a Unit arriving "by Deep Strike".

Gate of Infinity allows you to remove a Unit and place it following the rules: "Arriving by Deep Strike"

It never goes into reserves.
It never starts the game in "Deep Strike Reserves"

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

Can you use Interceptor on a unit that just used GoI?

 Nyghoma wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

Can you use Interceptor on a unit that just used GoI?

No, because it did not arrive from Reserves.

 Nyghoma wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

Can you use Interceptor on a unit that just used GoI?

No because its in the psychic phase, not the movement phase.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

Can you use Interceptor on a unit that just used GoI?

No because its in the psychic phase, not the movement phase.

Good point.

But as for reserves, the jury isn't out yet.

 Nyghoma wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nyghoma wrote:
Gate of infinity uses all the rules for deep strike, ALL. Whether you think it makes sense or doesn't, you can only arrive by reserves. When you are removed from the table with GoI, think of reserves as a temporary time pocket or the Warp.

So did you roll for the arrival of th unit, as per the reserve rules referred to by the deep strike rules?

Can you use Interceptor on a unit that just used GoI?

No because its in the psychic phase, not the movement phase.

Good point.

But as for reserves, the jury isn't out yet.

If you use all the rules for deep strike when using gate of infinity:
Every model must have the Deep Strike rule.
The unit must start the game in Reserves (and declared to be arriving by Deep Strike)
You must roll for the arrival of the unit as specified in the rules for Reserves.
They must arrive in the Movement phase.

If you use all the rules for deep strike when using gate of infinity:
Every model must have the Deep Strike rule.
The unit must start the game in Reserves (and declared to be arriving by Deep Strike)
You must roll for the arrival of the unit as specified in the rules for Reserves.
They must arrive in the Movement phase.

Not quite.

When using Gate of Infinity, all models in the unit are conferred the Deep Strike special rule per the wording of the power granting permission for the unit to arrive via Deep Strike. If permission was not granted, you would be correct. Another common example are Drop Pods granting DS to embarked units.

Units are not required to start in Reserves to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves. Arriving via Deep Strike is the same as arriving from Deep Strike Reserves per the BRB. As such, any unit arriving via Deep Strike has in fact arrived from Deep Strike Reserves. However, Reserves and Deep Strike Resrves are not the same thing per the BRB. A unit can be Reserved yet never use Deep Strike to arrive (I.e., Stormravens), while a unit can arrive via Deep Strike without ever having started in Reserves (I.e., Gate of Infinity). The hang up most people seem to have is GW's inability to differentiate similar terms. They use the word "reserves" to mean two similar yet different things in the game. "Reserves" is the place units are kept when not deployed pre-game, and confers a set of rules to determine when and how those units arrive on the table. "Deep Strike Reserses" is where units are at the start of the Deep Strike process of arriving on the table. Similar but different.

A unit arriving from Reserves must make a Reserve roll to arrive during the game. A unit not in Reserve does not. Deep Strike Reserves is not Reserves, despite using the word "Reserves". A unit in Reseves that is Deep Striking is in fact both in "Reserves" and starting in "Deep Strike Reserves". A unit using Gate of Infinity is not in "Reserves", and starts on the table, is then removed from the table and arrives "immediately" via the Deep Strike rules (I.e., Deep Strike Reserves, place one model as a marker, roll to scatter, place remaining models in BtB forming complete rings around the first model, check for mishap). No Rerseve roll is required because the unit was never in "Reserves".

A unit arriving from Reserves arrives at the beginning of the movement phase. A unit arriving by Deep Strike via Gate of Infinity is arriving immediately per the rules dictated by Gate of Infinity, which starts in the Psychic phase, is ended in the Psychic phase, and fully occurs during the activation of the power as written.

A basic understanding of the game only goes so far. Reading comprehension and the ability to work out word problems goes further, especially when trying to determine how rules in 40k interact. There is no conflict between Gate of Infinity, Deep Strike, and Reserves.

Rites of Teleportation does two things for the qualifying unit: allows a Reserved unit to roll for Reserves on turn 1, and a unit arriving via Deep Strike to use Battle Focus. GW's error is that they did not specify how the unit arrives beyond from Reserves for the roll benefit and via Deep Strike for the Battle Focus benefit. Rites of Teleportation as written is not in conflict with either Reserves, Deep Strike, or Gate of Infinity.

To reiterate, a NSF unit that uses Gate to arrive via Deep Strike will trigger Battle Focus per Rites, because all restrictions have been met.

The exact same argument allows NSF Purifiers in an Allied Fast choice Drop Pod to roll for Reserves on turn 1, as well as gaining Battle Focus for the turn it arrives, due to how Rites interacts with Reseves, Deep Strike, and the Combined Units rules.

Bookmark this, print it off, and show it to your TO and/or opponent if an argument occurs.

SJ

Note the exact same as drop pods.

the units arriving from deep strike reserves in drop pods are arriving from Deeep strike -RESERVES-

the units arriving by deep striking are arriving by deep strike.

the lack of reserves, which is a word and a defined set of rules is the difference.

one is following rules the other is not following.the rules for reserves.

the rites of teleporation run/shoot requires they arrive from deep strike RESERVES.

If I type

All of my sentences

Like this

It means I'm right

And you're wrong.

Apparently

Reading comprehension

Is a dying

Art

SJ

I agree w/run&shoot after gate, for the previously mentioned reasons... Gate explicitly uses the rules for deep strike, with the exception of arriving immediately.

Just like when blaktoof argues whether or not a dreadnought arriving via deep strike in a drop pod is itself arriving by DS or not, he wants to make up an imaginary location for the unit that is gating to move to when removed from the board.

Let's keep it civil and on-topic, folks.

arrivng by deep strike is not the same as arriving from deepstrike reserves, unless one of the GK players can provide a quote stating it is there is no real conversation here.

stating "all restrictions have been met" is pretty incorrect when there is the restriction that you were not in reserves, and nothing states arriving by deep strike is the same as arriving from deep strike reserves, nor does anything in GoI itself mention counting as coming from reserves or arriving from deep strike reserves.

what was your reserves roll again? oh wait you didnt make one...

blaktoof wrote:
arrivng by deep strike is not the same as arriving from deepstrike reserves, unless one of the GK players can provide a quote stating it is there is no real conversation here.

Reread the Deep Strike USR. Its right there in black and white.

reread the deep strike USR its right there in black and white.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

siege2142 wrote:
I agree w/run&shoot after gate, for the previously mentioned reasons... Gate explicitly uses the rules for deep strike, with the exception of arriving immediately.

Just like when blaktoof argues whether or not a dreadnought arriving via deep strike in a drop pod is itself arriving by DS or not, he wants to make up an imaginary location for the unit that is gating to move to when removed from the board.

agrees without quoting any rules support.

states pointless comment from another thread in their own imagination that does not even really exist.

troll = check.

Gate of Infinity, page 194

Unless the target is Zooming or Swooping, remove the target and his unit from the board. It then immediately arrives anywhere on the board using the rules for Deep Strike.

This shows that a unit using Gate of Infinity is arriving by Deep Strike, and uses all the rules pertaining to it. The word "Immediately" eliminates the need to roll for reserves.


Deep Strike, page 162

When placing a unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike(sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

This is the only place in the rules where Deep Strike Reserve is defined. And it is defined as any unit that is arriving by Deep Strike.


Therefore, a unit that uses Gate of Infinity is arriving from Deep Strike reserves. Thus triggering Teleport Homers(if they all have TDA or Interceptor packs) and the Nemesis Strike Force detachment special rule.

it is defined as any unit arriving from reserves by deepstrike.

its that reserves word that references rules that people keep leaving out.

GoI doesn't state the unit counts as being in reserves, so it isn't coming from deep strike reserves, which is probably why the RAW states "arriving by deep strikes" and not "arriving immediately from deep strike reserves"

so by the RAW you just quoted its not coming from deep strike reserves.

blaktoof wrote:
it is defined as any unit arriving from reserves by deepstrike.

its that reserves word that references rules that people keep leaving out.

GoI doesn't state the unit counts as being in reserves, so it isn't coming from deep strike reserves, which is probably why the RAW states "arriving by deep strikes" and not "arriving immediately from deep strike reserves"

so by the RAW you just quoted its not coming from deep strike reserves.

It actually is arriving from reserves because the power says "arrives immediately using the rules for Deep Strike"

The Deep Strike rules require you to be arriving from reserves. Ergo, the power makes you count as arriving from reserves.

This is the only interpretation which allows the rules to function. Your interpretation breaks the rules and prevents the game from continuing because there is no way to resolve the power. Thus its a flat out wrong interpretation.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Gate of Infinity, page 194

Unless the target is Zooming or Swooping, remove the target and his unit from the board. It then immediately arrives anywhere on the board using the rules for Deep Strike.

This shows that a unit using Gate of Infinity is arriving by Deep Strike, and uses all the rules pertaining to it. The word "Immediately" eliminates the need to roll for reserves.


Deep Strike, page 162

When placing a unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike(sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

This is the only place in the rules where Deep Strike Reserve is defined. And it is defined as any unit that is arriving by Deep Strike.


Therefore, a unit that uses Gate of Infinity is arriving from Deep Strike reserves. Thus triggering Teleport Homers(if they all have TDA or Interceptor packs) and the Nemesis Strike Force detachment special rule.

Incorrect, because the models from GoI are not put in reserves. Whether Deep Strike Reserves, Ongoing Reserves or Reserves....
They are removed from the board.
What happens to embarked passengers? They are removed from the board.

Are you arguing that Passengers are in Reserves?

"immediately arrives (...) using the rules for Deep Strike" means you use the rules under the subtitle:
"Arriving by Deep Strike"

Which does not mention any Reserves past "Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves"
Which, as you say, is ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Units are not required to start in Reserves to arrive from Deep Strike Reserves. Arriving via Deep Strike is the same as arriving from Deep Strike Reserves per the BRB. As such, any unit arriving via Deep Strike has in fact arrived from Deep Strike Reserves. However, Reserves and Deep Strike Resrves are not the same thing per the BRB. A unit can be Reserved yet never use Deep Strike to arrive (I.e., Stormravens), while a unit can arrive via Deep Strike without ever having started in Reserves (I.e., Gate of Infinity). The hang up most people seem to have is GW's inability to differentiate similar terms. They use the word "reserves" to mean two similar yet different things in the game. "Reserves" is the place units are kept when not deployed pre-game, and confers a set of rules to determine when and how those units arrive on the table. "Deep Strike Reserses" is where units are at the start of the Deep Strike process of arriving on the table. Similar but different.

SJ

This is also an incorrect view, and, as you say, "the hang up most people seem to have is GW's inability to differentiate similar terms". They use 3 terms:"Deep Strike Reserves"; "Deep Striking"; and arriving "by Deep Strike", which might seem the same, but are actually different things, and can be proven as such if required.

Arriving from "Deep Strike Reserves" does not fully equate to arriving via/"by Deep Strike" in the Rulebook, no. Specific example: Drop Pods. Their rules clearly state that the Pod and the Unit embarked, are in "Deep Strike Reserves". The Unit embarked, however, has no way of following the Deep Strike process, and thus no way of arriving "via Deep Strike"...

As for "Deep Strike Reserves" being different from "Reserves", the Deep Strike rules contradicts this fact:
"When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)"
A Deep Striking Unit is actually placed in "standard" Reserves, but is labelled as "will be arriving by Deep Strike". Technically "Deep Strike Reserves" sometimes doesn't even exist, despite Codices now relating to it as if it were a defined game term....

I have already shown that they are indeed put into Deep Strike Reserves and are arriving from it.

Your stubborn refusal to see it is your business, but you are wrong.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Gate of Infinity, page 194

Unless the target is Zooming or Swooping, remove the target and his unit from the board. It then immediately arrives anywhere on the board using the rules for Deep Strike.

Removed from the board (same as "in a transport").

I agree with "immediately" removes the need for a Roll.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Deep Strike, page 162

When placing a unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike(sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

This will not apply to any unit following GoI as they are never going into Reserves.

You have not shown much and it has been disproved. Provide some rules instead of "you are wrong"