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As the title, do people feel that razorbacks are adequately priced?

Most SM razorbacks cost 20 points more than a rhino, they lose the 2 firepoints, but gain a twinlinked heavy bolter.

Is it worth taking razorbacks over rhinos, or is the cost too much?

The only time I use razorbacks is with inquisition, where they are comparatively much cheaper, so whenever I look at SM books I wonder why anyone would ever take them.

Thoughts?

Edit: Added a poll to better show opinions.

Massed assault cannon razor backs can be very effective, especially paired with combat squads with lascannons. High volume of anti-MC and anti-tank fire for the points.

I preferred the last codex’s pricing over this one’s. The up-gunned ones cost the same, but the TLHB was only 40 points. I think paying 5 points for the guns at the cost of the firing port and capacity was fair. I’m not sure it’s worth it to field the cheep guns these days, since you are already out most of the points, might as well pony up 20 more and get a real gun.

They are over priced for an armor 11 vehicle - can't move 12 and shoot normal ether is another huge drawback - esentially not allowing it to be a heavy weapons platform and a transport at the same time. Land speeders are much better fire bases, have jink saves, and are more mobile. Rhinos are much better transports as they are cheap and don't get confused about their rolls. Haven't used a razor since 5th. They were OP in 5th cause you couldn't kill them even with their light armor.

 Nevelon wrote:
I preferred the last codex’s pricing over this one’s. The up-gunned ones cost the same, but the TLHB was only 40 points. I think paying 5 points for the guns at the cost of the firing port and capacity was fair. I’m not sure it’s worth it to field the cheep guns these days, since you are already out most of the points, might as well pony up 20 more and get a real gun.

This was my thought about SM ones. In theory anyway, I wouldn't want to actually spend 75 points on an AV11 tank.

Massed assault cannon razor backs can be very effective, especially paired with combat squads with lascannons. High volume of anti-MC and anti-tank fire for the points.

This is true, but consider that Inq razorbacks can do that same thing, at str 7, and which cost 5 points cheaper.

Which one is more balanced?

I don't mind the Lascannon/TL Plasmagun version on a fast BA platform.

Even though you can't get them super cheap with assault squads any more I find sticking a 5 man tactical squad in the two weapon variant and moving 12" and still shooting can be pretty useful. Plus it pays the troop tax.
You need to field them with alot of other armour else you end up throwing away points on expensive flimsy boxes but with enough saturation (DPing Dreads, Predators, vindicator) they can avoid the worst of the anti-tank fire and do their business.

I like sticking them as a static bunker with devastator squads. If I know something is going to land a pie-plate or charge them, I move inside. Okay it's conditional and it's more an apocalypse thing but stuff it, it's fun (even if it's not economical). It also fits with my theme at least of Deathwatch having Gucci equipment with upgrades - yet remaining a small force

Plus I think they look kinda neat

Razorbacks are way too cheap and they provide a stupidly cheesy way of getting massed access to lascannons and stuff.

SGTPozy wrote:
Razorbacks are way too cheap and they provide a stupidly cheesy way of getting massed access to lascannons and stuff.

75 point LC are cheap?

Yeah, stupidly cheap. Especially since it has objective secured. I wish my Tau could take ridiculously cheap railguns (like in the previous codex with broadsides).

SGTPozy wrote:
Yeah, stupidly cheap. Especially since it has objective secured. I wish my Tau could take ridiculously cheap railguns (like in the previous codex with broadsides).

You can take a broadside with railgun for similiar points, be tougher, have ap 1, and can put up ablative wounds with sheild drones.

Well the razorback is cheaper, is more survivable, less likely to be insta-deathed, can move without snap shoting, and have objective secured.

3 units of broadsides can be taken per CAD, whilst 9 razorbacks can be taken and are all individual units.

 God In Action wrote:
Massed assault cannon razor backs can be very effective, especially paired with combat squads with lascannons. High volume of anti-MC and anti-tank fire for the points.

Assault cannons are not anti-tank. And I think the assault cannon razor back is the weakest one.


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SGTPozy wrote:
Razorbacks are way too cheap and they provide a stupidly cheesy way of getting massed access to lascannons and stuff.

I think this is a troll post.


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SGTPozy wrote:
Yeah, stupidly cheap. Especially since it has objective secured. I wish my Tau could take ridiculously cheap railguns (like in the previous codex with broadsides).

Maybe he's serious. If so, that's pretty nuts. The razorback is marginal for the BA, and I wouldn't use them with the marines.


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SGTPozy wrote:
Well the razorback is cheaper, is more survivable, less likely to be insta-deathed, can move without snap shoting, and have objective secured.

3 units of broadsides can be taken per CAD, whilst 9 razorbacks can be taken and are all individual units.

I guess he's serious. Non-fast razorbacks are bad. I've tried to use them. They are just bad.

SGTPozy wrote:
Well the razorback is cheaper, is more survivable, less likely to be insta-deathed, can move without snap shoting, and have objective secured.

3 units of broadsides can be taken per CAD, whilst 9 razorbacks can be taken and are all individual units.

You could easily take 15 razors in a CAD. You can spam them from every slot on the table. Know why people don't? Because they are much easier to kill than a broadside.

You also will run into your own tanks trying to move them. A 48" gun on a razorback will at least sometimes give them range advantage. It's a form of protection.

@Martel - I've actually done some math hammering on the assault cannon.

Turns out the AC is pretty much superior to the LC verse literally every armor value. Like me...you've probably had some bad luck with the AC and said for those points why don't I just take a LC? That was my thinking until I looked at the math.

SGTPozy wrote:
Razorbacks are way too cheap and they provide a stupidly cheesy way of getting massed access to lascannons and stuff.

First time I've ever heard RBs described as cheesy! 75pts for a tl lascannon is definitely not cheap!
Neither are razorbacks cheap or cheesy in comparison to other units. Lets take an auto-las pred for instance: 40pts more, 2 lascanon and 2 autocannon shots in comparison to 1 tl lascannon shot. Av13 compared to av11. And an auto-las pred is at best considered average to decent.

15 makes it even worse! No, the real reason why people don't use them is because of all of the other cheese in the codex like grab bikers, grav centurions... So basically grab weaponry in general (and yes, I am serious).

Str3 hurts broadsides on a 5+, but not razorbacks.
Str4 hurts broadsides on a 4+, and only the razorback at the rear (which is unlikely to be exposed; therefore not effect).
Str5 hurts broadsides on a 3+, and razorbacks on a 6+.
Str6+ hurts broadsides on a 2+, and razorbacks on a 5+.
Str7 hurts razorbacks on a 4+.
Str8+ insta kills broadsides, and wounds razorbacks on a 3+.

Broadsides have 2W for 10 points more, and the Razorback has 3HPs which can only be insta killed by ap1/2 weapons (and these wouldn't give the broadside a save either).

 Xenomancers wrote:
@Martel - I've actually done some math hammering on the assault cannon.

Turns out the AC is pretty much superior to the LC verse literally every armor value. Like me...you've probably had some bad luck with the AC and said for those points why don't I just take a LC? That was my thinking until I looked at the math.

But the assault cannon doesn't start firing until 24" That's what I don't like about it. That's why I don't consider it anti-tank. I mean at 24" you are taking fire back from MM and gravcannons and every GK weapon. I don't like it. If the assault cannon was 36" I would 100% use it.

SGTPozy wrote:
15 makes it even worse! No, the real reason why people don't use them is because of all of the other cheese in the codex like grab bikers, grav centurions... So basically grab weaponry in general (and yes, I am serious).

Str3 hurts broadsides on a 5+, but not razorbacks.
Str4 hurts broadsides on a 4+, and only the razorback at the rear (which is unlikely to be exposed; therefore not effect).
Str5 hurts broadsides on a 3+, and razorbacks on a 6+.
Str6+ hurts broadsides on a 2+, and razorbacks on a 5+.
Str7 hurts razorbacks on a 4+.
Str8+ insta kills broadsides, and wounds razorbacks on a 3+.

Broadsides have 2W for 10 points more, and the Razorback has 3HPs which can only be insta killed by ap1/2 weapons (and these wouldn't give the broadside a save either).

Broadsides have a save (making your comparisons moot), more shots, JSJ, don't lose weapons/get immobilised/stunned if they lose a wound, are pretty much immune to haywire, have no real fear of massed st6/7 firepower at middling ap...

"(and yes, I am serious)"

Well I know not to take you seriously on the Tau thread, then.

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
@Martel - I've actually done some math hammering on the assault cannon.

Turns out the AC is pretty much superior to the LC verse literally every armor value. Like me...you've probably had some bad luck with the AC and said for those points why don't I just take a LC? That was my thinking until I looked at the math.

But the assault cannon doesn't start firing until 24" That's what I don't like about it. That's why I don't consider it anti-tank. I mean at 24" you are taking fire back from MM and gravcannons and every GK weapon. I don't like it. If the assault cannon was 36" I would 100% use it.

Yeah - razors are probably best with laz plas anyways. They don't even make a modle for it anymore though and it's still armor 11 and dead first turn...50% of the time before it ever shoots.

Poly Ranger wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
15 makes it even worse! No, the real reason why people don't use them is because of all of the other cheese in the codex like grab bikers, grav centurions... So basically grab weaponry in general (and yes, I am serious).

Str3 hurts broadsides on a 5+, but not razorbacks.
Str4 hurts broadsides on a 4+, and only the razorback at the rear (which is unlikely to be exposed; therefore not effect).
Str5 hurts broadsides on a 3+, and razorbacks on a 6+.
Str6+ hurts broadsides on a 2+, and razorbacks on a 5+.
Str7 hurts razorbacks on a 4+.
Str8+ insta kills broadsides, and wounds razorbacks on a 3+.

Broadsides have 2W for 10 points more, and the Razorback has 3HPs which can only be insta killed by ap1/2 weapons (and these wouldn't give the broadside a save either).

Broadsides have a save (making your comparisons moot), more shots, JSJ, don't lose weapons/get immobilised/stunned if they lose a wound, are pretty much immune to haywire, have no real fear of massed st6/7 firepower at middling ap...

Razorbacks can have a save if you put them behind cover, the HRR has 1 shot and the SMS wouldn't do much against a vehicle. They do not have JSJ (no idea who told you they did), broadsides are vulnerable to poison (like the entire DE army),


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Martel732 wrote:
"(and yes, I am serious)"

Well I know not to take you seriously on the Tau thread, then.

Read what I have aid in the Tau thread. I do not defend the Riptide, I just defend it when it is compared to like-units such as IK, DK, WK as they are all equally powerful, survivable etc.

Yeah - razors are probably best with laz plas anyways. They don't even make a modle for it anymore though and it's still armor 11 and dead first turn...50% of the time before it ever shoots.

I would agree with you, but only for BA, otherwise you are going to be snap shooting 1 of the guns most of the time.
Also this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/RAZORBACK_LASCANNON_AND_PLASMA_GUN_TURRET.html
Looks nice, but I do think the FW assault cannon looks nicer.

SGTPozy, I can only presume you have been trapped in cryo since 5th edition, when SWs with waves of razorbacks were a common sight.
Things have changed, razorbacks are not what they used to be.

Either this or you are trolling.

I think it does fine, but is a little overpriced for its cost. I usually use them as more cover for my Devs rather than any actual firepower. The Las cannon is a little overpriced with only one shot. I may give it a try for some tank hunting, but I'd rather take some better AT than a one shot AV11 transport.

Sorry - getting my suits mixed up. The rest still applies though.

I didn't really play in 5th, well I did but not properly (I was young and only played against my brother).

I'm not saying that they are OP, I'm just saying that they're a bit cheap.

SGTPozy wrote:
I didn't really play in 5th, well I did but not properly (I was young and only played against my brother).

I'm not saying that they are OP, I'm just saying that they're a bit cheap.

People rarely take Razorbacks. Even when they do, it's usually only one for a Dev squad. At 55 points for a 6 capacity transport, I'd hardly call them cheap.

There was one guy (he left) in my meta who spammed them in 6th and he always did really well (he plays Iron Hands).

I think it is same league with a land speeder.