Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 zombiekila707 wrote:
Why like the lion? Like Dark angels are evil as hell but the lion?! He is a pompous ass who kills his own men because he gets pissed when they talk back.

Source? Never heard him kill his own people other than the traitors. Also, how are they evil? The ones who were tainted by the warp are Chaos now, no longer true DA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I'm glad it's not just me that hate the Lion.

So the Lion doesn't get a pass on the hate but Guilliman does?

Nah, I've been through this. I agree that the Lion and Guilliman both made the same mistake not getting to Terra, but I like Guilliman for other reasons, and hate the Lion for other reasons.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Source? Never heard him kill his own people other than the traitors. Also, how are they evil? The ones who were tainted by the warp are Chaos now, no longer true DA.

In one of the stories, The Lion Beheads an Astartes for speaking out of turn.

Again, source? Searched the Lexicanum and the codex, never found that.

It's in either Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels I think.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 zombiekila707 wrote:
Why like the lion? Like Dark angels are evil as hell but the lion?! He is a pompous ass who kills his own men because he gets pissed when they talk back.

Source? Never heard him kill his own people other than the traitors. Also, how are they evil? The ones who were tainted by the warp are Chaos now, no longer true DA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I'm glad it's not just me that hate the Lion.

So the Lion doesn't get a pass on the hate but Guilliman does?

Nah, I've been through this. I agree that the Lion and Guilliman both made the same mistake not getting to Terra, but I like Guilliman for other reasons, and hate the Lion for other reasons.

We've ready established this. The Lion is a moody bipolar pubescent with an awesome background and Guilliman is a bigoted bully pubescent with a meh background. Now, let's argue about something else. For instance: why the frack is the nerdy kid starting to catch up to the flawless kid on the poll?

 dusara217 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 zombiekila707 wrote:
Why like the lion? Like Dark angels are evil as hell but the lion?! He is a pompous ass who kills his own men because he gets pissed when they talk back.

Source? Never heard him kill his own people other than the traitors. Also, how are they evil? The ones who were tainted by the warp are Chaos now, no longer true DA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I'm glad it's not just me that hate the Lion.

So the Lion doesn't get a pass on the hate but Guilliman does?

Nah, I've been through this. I agree that the Lion and Guilliman both made the same mistake not getting to Terra, but I like Guilliman for other reasons, and hate the Lion for other reasons.

We've ready established this. The Lion is an ass with an awesome background and Guilliman is a bigoted dill weed with a gakky background. Now, let's argue about something else. For instance: why the frack is the nerdy kid starting to catch up to the flawless kid on the poll?

Good way to diffuse a situation that, posting an inflammatory opinionated statement...

It's in the Primarchs that the Lion beheads a marine. It was a chaplain that was refusing to budge on the Lion reinstating the Librarians. They were being attacked by daemons and they were the only reliable weapon for the Dark Angels so the chaplain should have stood down but after he killed him the Lion was remorseful and said everyone should honor him because he died for something be believed in.

Also the Lion is awesome.

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's in either Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels I think.

It's in The Primarchs Anthology. Story, the Lion.

Lion kills Nemiel after Nemiel insists that he is breaking the Emperors Law.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's in either Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels I think.

It's in The Primarchs Anthology. Story, the Lion.

Lion kills Nemiel after Nemiel insists that he is breaking the Emperors Law.

So it is, cheers. I knew it was a HH DA story and just completely forgot that one existed.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 zombiekila707 wrote:
Why like the lion? Like Dark angels are evil as hell but the lion?! He is a pompous ass who kills his own men because he gets pissed when they talk back.

God I hate the lion...

Vulkan is my fav he and his men are equal (in his eyes) and the whole part of him bowing to his men instead of them bowing to him way cool!

I fething swear, it's like people don't even bother to actually read any Dark Angel books, and instead get everything they know from 1D4Chan. The Lion isn't pompous, he's bipolar. He's perfectly chill most of the time and accepts criticism, only his emotions swing and he lacks any grounding due to spending his childhood in a forest surrounded by Daemons.

He's also allied with chaos and would've turned on the Emperor in a second.

The Fallen know the truth! LION WAS A HERETIC!

#Lutherwasright

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's in either Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels I think.

It's in The Primarchs Anthology. Story, the Lion.

Lion kills Nemiel after Nemiel insists that he is breaking the Emperors Law.

So it is, cheers. I knew it was a HH DA story and just completely forgot that one existed.

Mordred was there first

Ah yeah, I missed that. Thanks Mordred too.

 Mordred wrote:
It's in the Primarchs that the Lion beheads a marine. It was a chaplain that was refusing to budge on the Lion reinstating the Librarians. They were being attacked by daemons and they were the only reliable weapon for the Dark Angels so the chaplain should have stood down but after he killed him the Lion was remorseful and said everyone should honor him because he died for something be believed in.

Also the Lion is awesome.

That actually makes sense.

The only good Primarch is a dead Primarch

 dusara217 wrote:
Sanguinius, who was the purest, uncorruptable of the Primarchs. IMHO, the Blood Angels and their successors should be uncorruptable as well. Actually, I've never heard of Traitor BA or Successors, could somebody provide examples or are the BA uncorruptable?
Sanguinius was also the wisest of the Primarchs and (arguably) the best in CQC.

Oh please, the blood angels are all closet Khorne worshipers

lustigjh wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
Sanguinius, who was the purest, uncorruptable of the Primarchs. IMHO, the Blood Angels and their successors should be uncorruptable as well. Actually, I've never heard of Traitor BA or Successors, could somebody provide examples or are the BA uncorruptable?
Sanguinius was also the wisest of the Primarchs and (arguably) the best in CQC.

Oh please, the blood angels are all closet Khorne worshipers

The Blood Angels have the restraint of the Ultramaraines, the CC power of the World Eaters and the aesthetics of the Emperor's Children as well as a humbleness all their own. They are everything Khorne is not, except for the CC bit.

Mordred wrote:It's in the Primarchs that the Lion beheads a marine. It was a chaplain that was refusing to budge on the Lion reinstating the Librarians. They were being attacked by daemons and they were the only reliable weapon for the Dark Angels so the chaplain should have stood down but after he killed him the Lion was remorseful and said everyone should honor him because he died for something be believed in.

Also the Lion is awesome.

Thanks for making me hate the Lion even more, Nemiel was my second favorite Dark Angel Space Marine.

lustigjh wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
Sanguinius, who was the purest, uncorruptable of the Primarchs. IMHO, the Blood Angels and their successors should be uncorruptable as well. Actually, I've never heard of Traitor BA or Successors, could somebody provide examples or are the BA uncorruptable?
Sanguinius was also the wisest of the Primarchs and (arguably) the best in CQC.

Oh please, the blood angels are all closet Khorne worshipers

Blood for the Emperor God?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mordred wrote:
It's in the Primarchs that the Lion beheads a marine. It was a chaplain that was refusing to budge on the Lion reinstating the Librarians. They were being attacked by daemons and they were the only reliable weapon for the Dark Angels so the chaplain should have stood down but after he killed him the Lion was remorseful and said everyone should honor him because he died for something be believed in.

Also the Lion is awesome.

Ah, cheers. Also, sounds like he had reasons for killing the Chaplain.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Chief Sneakiness himself Alpharius, the guy wields a Necron weapon is able to almost take Horus's ship with a handful of people and may still be alive......Hydra Dominatus!

Wait, he wields a Necron weapon?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Chief Sneakiness himself Alpharius, the guy wields a Necron weapon is able to almost take Horus's ship with a handful of people and may still be alive......Hydra Dominatus!

Wait, he wields a Necron weapon?

It's heavily implied

The Pale Spear

This was one of a number of strange and esoteric weapons associated with the Primarch and rumoured to be a strange xenos artefact whose forging predated even the rise of the Eldar. This double-bladed spear flickered seemingly out of phase with the material universe when wielded, emitting an eerie and otherworldly howling, and was able to piece any physical defence it encountered without impediment, ripping them apart at a molecular level. Against living matter, it inflicted hideously gaping bloodless wounds as the flesh where it struck dissolved into oily smoke.

And then it's proflie has it at AP1, has armourbane, and is two handed, similarities shared with the Necron Warscythe.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Khonsu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
No Primarchs (maybe Perturabo) wanted their soldiers to die meaningless deaths, that's hardly unique to the Lion.

Huh?
Perturabo?
What a load of horsecrap.
Source?

Erm, Extermination by FW, he had one tenth of his legion beaten to death by the rest of the Legionnaires when he assumed command of the Iron Warriors, because they weren't the best legion.

It's called Decimation, The Romans came up with it, It's not meaningless at all when you remember the Imperial/Late Republican Roman Army was the most polished and efficient instrument of war in its time.

Magnus has just the right mix of hubris, tragedy, sympathy and nobility for me. I liked how, even at the Battle of the Fang, when he's already ascended(?) he expresses admiration for his archfoes, the Space Wolves.

Plus I loathe Space Vikings. That makes things a lot easier.

Here's a summary of the events.

Khonsu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Khonsu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
No Primarchs (maybe Perturabo) wanted their soldiers to die meaningless deaths, that's hardly unique to the Lion.

Huh?
Perturabo?
What a load of horsecrap.
Source?

Erm, Extermination by FW, he had one tenth of his legion beaten to death by the rest of the Legionnaires when he assumed command of the Iron Warriors, because they weren't the best legion.

It's called Decimation, The Romans came up with it, It's not meaningless at all when you remember the Imperial/Late Republican Roman Army was the most polished and efficient instrument of war in its time.

I know what Decimation is, and it's origins, thanks. It's pretty pointless in the IW case though. It didn't really achieve much. And I'm an IW fan.

The Romans used it to punish large groups of men for things like desertion. Perturabo did it because 'the IW weren't the best legion'. See the difference?

 Wyzilla wrote:

Spoiler:

Here's a summary of the events.

Pretty much lol. That character was kinda important though. Such a waste...

Khonsu wrote:
It's called Decimation, The Romans came up with it, It's not meaningless at all when you remember the Imperial/Late Republican Roman Army was the most polished and efficient instrument of war in its time.

Uh, it does seem pretty meaningless. We're talking about Space Marines here, just think of how difficult and expensive they are to make. And they're already disciplined. Not to mention the Great Crusade was in full swing so they had to ramp up recruitment. And a tenth of a LEGION? I'd smack his head off if I was the Emperor.

The Emperor let it happen, strangely. Guilliman tried to stop it and Empy basically told him not to meddle.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Emperor let it happen, strangely. Guilliman tried to stop it and Empy basically told him not to meddle.

The Emperor coddled his children, he did. Couldn't bring himself to kill Horus right away either.

I guess it kinda makes sense since he wanted his Primarchs to have full control in shaping their legions. But still, decimation seems like such an overreaction. Just think of all the recruits they had to go through to get that many Astartes. At least they harvested back the organs I hope...

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Emperor let it happen, strangely. Guilliman tried to stop it and Empy basically told him not to meddle.

The Emperor coddled his children, he did. Couldn't bring himself to kill Horus right away either.

I guess it kinda makes sense since he wanted his Primarchs to have full control in shaping their legions. But still, decimation seems like such an overreaction. Just think of all the recruits they had to go through to get that many Astartes. At least they harvested back the organs I hope...

They hadn't done anything wrong. They were one of the most renowned legions at that point. They just weren't the number one. It's definitly meaningless deaths, because it's not like they then became the number one legion haha, so I don't really know what it achieved.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The Emperor let it happen, strangely. Guilliman tried to stop it and Empy basically told him not to meddle.

Where did Guilliman try to act?

It's in HH3: Extermination from FW.

'At this bloody edict some within the Imperial Court protested, believing that the Emperor had given absolute power of a Space Marine Legion to a madman, while others, more guarded in their criticism, opined only that command had been given too soon to the Primarch -- unused as he was to the ways of the Imperium. Loudest of these critics was Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, who bridled at the ignominy of the deaths to which valiant Astartes -- warriors alongside which his own Legion had often fought -- had been thus consigned. It was a spur of discord between the two Primarchs that, though later eclipsed by other rancours and feuds among the Emperor's sons, would be one that neither would ever forget. All such criticism the Emperor silenced.'

Odd. Very odd. This makes Perturabo sound extremely petty. Seems like an interesting read though.

It's probably the only misstep I've noticed from FW HH stuff, and I don't mind it too much, he's pretty ruthless. But it is rather pointless.

The HH books from forge world are superb.

This is the explanation for the decimation 'Their sin was not that they had failed in the Great Crusade's service -- for by no measure had this been the case, but instead that they had not reached their full potential. It was not enough for Perturabo that they were merely superior, their fault lay in that among the Legions they were not already supreme.'