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Wanting to know why you think this as well. I've said no serpents as I'd rather not this dissolve into the usual serpent debate.

So in my opinion the top 5 in no particular order:
1) Servo skulls.
3pts for a model that denies infiltrate, denies scout and reduces scatter by d6". Basically countering many army builds strengths.

2) Psybolt ammo.
Avaliable for 5pts for inquisition. It seems incredibly undercosted on a razorback with an assault cannon, and on a chimera with 2 heavy bolters, as it increases all shots st by1. But on a LR crusader it increases the strength of up to 16 shots a turn, for 5pts. I personally think LRs are overcosted anyway, and this only makes it slightly undercosted as a model. But in comparison to a normal LRC it puts it at unbelievably better value!

3) Night Scythes
I believe the hellblades in IA:13 to be worth the 100pts they cost, but a Nighyscythe for the same price gets far more hits on average, an extra hp, transport capacity and the most broken transportation rules in the game.

4) Schism of mars
From IA:2. This gives tank hunter, a 4+ against haywire and extra BS against deamon engines to boot... for 25pts! This is crazy value. Put on anything with many shots such as a sicaran and I reckon it becomes completely undercosted. This legacy is what gives sicarans a bad name.

5) Renegade laser destroyer rapier
20pts for a bs2 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shot on a t7 3w platform, 2 of the wounds having a 3+. 10pts to upgrade to bs3. 3 pts for an extra wound. Makes an ork kannon (which is already really good value), look like an absolute joke.


Other honourable mentions include warpspiders, annihilation barges, wraith knights, flyrants and typhons. From what I've read, the crazy LoW C'tan too, but im not aware of his rules so I can't say.

I'm a BA/CSM/Necron player and have a small force of Inq. So I don't think im being biased against opposing armies - since they all, apart from the last come from my armies.


Obviously I take the above when looking to build a competitive list.

Valkyries. Only transport I can think of that actually competes with Wave Serpents, cheap, tough, punchy, fast (they're not Dedicated Transports and don't get Combat Drop if you aren't using Elysians which makes them less scary). Drop Pods. 35pts to put anything in the Imperium anywhere you want it turn one. Riptides. Complaints well-documented elsewhere, if anyone disagrees I will pull it up and list it off. Heralds of Tzeentch, under a hundred points for a ML3 Daemonology psyker. Land Raider Achilles, it's more expensive than a normal Land Raider but it's also straight-up immune to everything that can kill a normal Land Raider efficiently. Fire Raptor, more guns than anything in the game could ever deserve for fewer points than its fairly-priced transport cousin that can't kill much. Be'lakor, and the fact that three hundred and fifty points is too little to pay for guaranteed Invisibility is a sure sign something's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Well, I'm not going to think about IA units or models.
But Night Scythes of my beloved Necron army are really underpriced for what they can achieve.

I'll get flak for it, but my ravenwing command squads and black kknights seem slightly too cheap

The Pulse Laser upgrade for the Hornet is so under-priced that I'm convinced it's a typo.

The Jetbike upgrade for Eldar ICs, and Jetbikes in general

Wraithknights, especially when compared to Wraithlords.

Night Scythes, Annihilation Barges, Wraiths and Mindshackle Scarabs.

Riptides, and specifically the Ion Accelerator upgrade.

Neuroweb System Jammer

Space Marine Bikes, especially when compared to Tac squads. They are more durable, more shooty, and more maneuverable than the equivalent points of Tac squads even before you consider upgrades like Grav Guns.

The Schism of Mars and Battle of Keylek, especially when combined with some of the tanks in IA:vol2

Wings for Daemon Princes and Hive Tyrants.

 Formosa wrote:
I'll get flak for it, but my ravenwing command squads and black kknights seem slightly too cheap

Not going to pass on flak but honestly I think they're slightly too expensive, which is a good indication they're actually fairly priced (reasonable people agree it's close but off slightly in different directions)

 DanielBeaver wrote:


Night Scythes, Annihilation Barges, Wraiths and Mindshackle Scarabs.

All of these


That said, I'm surprised at some of the responses (Valkyries?)

But here's my list.

Bikers in general. Get a boost to Toughness, gain the ability to Jink, almost universally have Twin Linked weapons (especially helps with that Jink), gain incredible speed, aren't slowed by terrain (and Dangerous terrain has been severely nerfed) and they're Relentless to boot, and they're all relatively cheap.

Drop Pods. For units that can come in turn 1, deep strike with almost complete immunity to hazard (save for the table edge), and give you an AV12 block of board control, and be taken as a dedicated transport, these things are *real* cheap, and really should be closer to 50pts.

As noted earlier, Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes. Not much needs to be said on these. In 5E they weren't so bad when the Necron book came out, but as soon as 6E came out they became a whole new thing, and 7E has only helped them more.

Tigurius. A level 3 W3 Librarian who can reroll basically anything related to psychic powers *and* reserve rolls, with access to just about any psychic lore save Daemonology IIRC, is outstandingly cheap for what he brings.

Wings for MC's, why not make your MC nigh impossible to kill for 20pts?

Fast on Blood Angels units. 10pts is cheap to the point that it's a no-brainer auto-take upgrade that nobody is ever going to pass on, that provides a significantly enhanced functionality over normal vehicles, both gun-tanks and transports.

I'm going to be that guy and say Wave Serpents. For everything a Wave Serpent can currently do it should be worth at least another 30-45 points.

And yes I did read the OP.

Serpents are OP.

Back in 6th edition I would have said Heldrakes, however with the lost of 360 arc of fire they are not quite as good.

Although they aren't that powerful, there's a strong case for the 40 point Piranha. It comes with two Gun Drones which otherwise cost 14 points each, leaving the value of the Piranha at a measely 12 points.

Hornets. Compared to a Vyper they're a bit of a joke.

A Vyper with two Shuriken Cannon's and Star Engines is 75 Points. (Star Engines are overcosted, DE pay only 5pts for Enhanced Aethersails but whatever).
At 70 points a stock Hornet comes with the same wargear AND Armour 11 AND isn't open-topped AND Scout AND Acute Senses AND Skimmer Assault, not to mention those Pulse Lasers for only 5 points each.

Night Scythe/AB/Haywire Cryptek.
Eldar Jetbike.
Wyvern (when do these ever not get their points back?)
Puretide chip (I'd pay 15 points just for Tank Hunter).

Drop pods.

Especially as they can have ObjSec. Deep Strike with no risk, on turn one. And are fairly durable. Same cost as an Ork Trukk? Ridiculous.

They should be at least 100pts each, not 35.

Wyverns

I was surprised to see the valkyrie on here, I thought it was pretty expensive?

I would put a vote in for the Wyverns. 65points that can easily kill triple that amount of points in troops, without line of sight needed. Reroll hits, reroll wounds, no cover saves, no line of sight. Against most armies 3 of these is all you need.

Intresting thoughts keep them coming. Agree with the vast majority mentioned!

Hmmm. Noone mentions the Thunderfire Cannon? Just a Tech Marine with servo harness is 75 points... the gun itself 25 points?

The TFC is good, but the unit as a whole at 100pts is about right, the Techmarine on its own is overpriced.

Space marine bikers are spectacularly more points-efficient than tactical marines, and can make incredibly good use of grav-guns. Especially with white scars chapter tactics they're the most "tactical" unit in the codex.

The AM wyvern is one of the best artillery units in the game, an absolute steal at the price of a chimera.

+1 for servo skulls.

Fire warriors.. 9 points for what they bring isn't terribly overpowered, but 11 for a model with Haywire is stupid-strong.
Tetras with Disruption Pods (60 points for two tl markerlights on a 3+ in open av10 is a little silly), Seeker Missles (8 points for a potential bs5 s8ap2 shot on a lot of the things that can take it are silly, especially since dfish can have two for whatever reason), Gun Drones and Marker Drones with a Commander holding Drone Controller (ridiculously underpriced on that model).
Kroot snipers.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hmmm. Noone mentions the Thunderfire Cannon? Just a Tech Marine with servo harness is 75 points... the gun itself 25 points?

Do you think Techmarines should actually be 75pts?

50 point techmarine, 25 point servo harness. That would be the cost of the slot less HQ option. Should it be 75 points? Probably not, but it is.

Renegade's Laser Destroyer isn't a blast weapon. its a single lascannon shot with some bells and whistles. Hardly undercosted i'd rather the kannon.

Dreadknights

Drop pods

Ion Accelerator

Razorbacks

Rhinos

 Vaktathi wrote:
Wings for MC's, why not make your MC nigh impossible to kill for 20pts?

What FMC gets wings for 20 points?

Hive Tyrant cost 35 for the upgrade and Daemon Princes cost 40. I Don't think anything else in the game has access to the winged upgrade. Lords of Change, Kairos, Aetaos'rau'keres, Be'lakor, An'ggrath, Bloodthirsters, Harpies, Crones, and Harridans all get them by default.

Surprised no-one's mentioned Severin Loth: 175 points for a ML3 Psyker who can choose his powers, meaning guaranteed Invisibility, etc. Sure, he's only restricted to a single Psychic Discipline but means you're getting an extra power from Psychic Focus. Not very survivable but can spend a Warp Charge to automatically give himself a 2++ Invulnerable save for the turn!

Gauss ... pisses me off to no end that the Necrons troops choices can wreck ANY vehicle in the game ... no upgrades required, just roll your dice.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Gauss ... pisses me off to no end that the Necrons troops choices can wreck ANY vehicle in the game ... no upgrades required, just roll your dice.

They've been able to do that since at least 4th Edition, except back then it was even easier since you could wreck a vehicle on a single glance...

 CrownAxe wrote:
Renegade's Laser Destroyer isn't a blast weapon. its a single lascannon shot with some bells and whistles. Hardly undercosted i'd rather the kannon.

Here is the reason I put that: (nothing to do with blast)
3 ork kannons with only one reroll to hit each, st8 ap3 bs3, ld5 = 63pts

3 laser destroyer rapiers with unlimited rerolls to hit (tl), st9 ap1 bs3, ld5-10, ordnance (basically tank hunter) = 70pts

Would you not pay 2.3pts per model to upgrade ork kannons by giving them unlimited rerolls to hit, +1st, 2 better ap, ld4+d6 and tank hunter? I know I would!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(It costs 10pts to upgrade the entire battery not each one - forgot to mention that). Also was comparing with the ork kannon as that is the closest example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised no-one's mentioned Severin Loth: 175 points for a ML3 Psyker who can choose his powers, meaning guaranteed Invisibility, etc. Sure, he's only restricted to a single Psychic Discipline but means you're getting an extra power from Psychic Focus. Not very survivable but can spend a Warp Charge to automatically give himself a 2++ Invulnerable save for the turn!

One of my favourite characters! Definitely too cheap. Can become a close combat monster with biomany, or a buffing king with telepathy.

I think, from that list of characters, Issodon is even more broken.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Renegade's Laser Destroyer isn't a blast weapon. its a single lascannon shot with some bells and whistles. Hardly undercosted i'd rather the kannon.

Here is the reason I put that: (nothing to do with blast)
3 ork kannons with only one reroll to hit each, st8 ap3 bs3, ld5 = 63pts

3 laser destroyer rapiers with unlimited rerolls to hit (tl), st9 ap1 bs3, ld5-10, ordnance (basically tank hunter) = 70pts

Would you not pay 2.3pts per model to upgrade ork kannons by giving them unlimited rerolls to hit, +1st, 2 better ap, ld4+d6 and tank hunter? I know I would!

No I wouldn't. Laser Destroyers are only good at shooting vehicles. Kannons are good at shooting vehicles, light infantry, heavy infantry, bikes, etc...

Kannons bring a lot more utility then Laser Destroyers. Frankly after using Laser destroyer rapier batteries a lot i don't find them very impressive.

Most laser destroyer batteries are 55pts. These are 23.3pts. Only slightly over 2/5 the cost of a normal one.

I don't understand how a single st8 ap3 shot with 1 reroll has more utility against infantry than a single st9 ap1 shot with unlimited rerolls. Both are as likely to kill normal infantry, whilst a laser destroyer is 5/6 more likely to kill 2+ infantry.

The only thing kannons can do better is shoot at fliers, which the laser destroyers cannot.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am talking about the direct comparison with a kannon. Which is 1 shot, st8 ap3 at bs3 with 1 reroll for 21pts.

Which is why most laser destroyer batteries are bad and renegade's are only ok.

I though kannons were a battle cannon blast?