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 Jihadin wrote:
Wait...we just go to US/Iraq War bashing now?

I don't think there's ever been a bigger strawmen for leftists.

 Frazzled wrote:
Justin Bieber.

Okay, that one counts. But it is a threat to the entire world, not just the US, altough you guys are certainly suffering the most of it. Your bravery in this dwarves even that of Russia in the Great Patriotic War. Hordes of genocidal Germans are nothing compared to this monstrosity.
If you want some good advice, I would say you should nuke the entire area. Sure, you may lose up to 90% of your population, but it is nothing compared to what will happen if you do not destroy this greatest of all evils.

 Frazzled wrote:
Mexican incursions into SouthWestern US prior to WWI.

To be fair, those weren't carried out by the Mexican gov't but by "revoluntionary" bandits, and a whole lot more of Villa's guys died in the process, not quite anticipating how heavily armed people were here

 Smacks wrote:
That would imply that Moore's right to be a dumbass was under threat, which is doubtful, and also under threat from anyone associated with Iraq before the invasion, which is even more doubtful. At best he fought to preserve western corporate interests in the middle east, assuming they were under much threat... which is doubtful.

Yeah, I was speaking generally. As in "soldiers fight for their country to protect the rights that allow people to denigrate them". I wasn't speaking about the war in Iraq, but feel free to beat that dead horse as much as you like (or even snipe at it from a mile away, Chris Kyle style!).

Senator McCain is about to respond to Moore tweet

 Jihadin wrote:
Senator McCain is about to respond to Moore tweet

What a judicious use of his valuable time to govern.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Justin Bieber.

Okay, that one counts. But it is a threat to the entire world, not just the US, altough you guys are certainly suffering the most of it. Your bravery in this dwarves even that of Russia in the Great Patriotic War. Hordes of genocidal Germans are nothing compared to this monstrosity.
If you want some good advice, I would say you should nuke the entire area. Sure, you may lose up to 90% of your population, but it is nothing compared to what will happen if you do not destroy this greatest of all evils.

Agreed. The 10% that survive will be stronger, an entire nation of Mega Texans. Then we'll launch Waugh Queso upon an unsuspecting world.


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 Vaktathi wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Mexican incursions into SouthWestern US prior to WWI.

To be fair, those weren't carried out by the Mexican gov't but by "revoluntionary" bandits, and a whole lot more of Villa's guys died in the process, not quite anticipating how heavily armed people were here

My ancestors appreciate the complement.


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 d-usa wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Senator McCain is about to respond to Moore tweet

What a judicious use of his valuable time to govern.

Dakka Pong addendum. It fully counts if he mentions "Luke" "Light Saber" or "Deathstar."

 d-usa wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Senator McCain is about to respond to Moore tweet

What a judicious use of his valuable time to govern.

Did not respond to it being it was stupid. More focus on ISIS

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't see the relevance of the quote, tbh.

Someone utterly missed the point of the movie and somehow thinks that a quote intended to typify a character as losing their humanity and the goal of their own mission is somehow a great testament to the struggles of soldiers.

Basically another person who probably missed that Holden Caulfield is the villain of his own story.

Actually the U.S. has been under existential threat or threat of invasion since the Revolution a few times, not counting the Civil War, there's been multiple scrapes with Mexico and a knife fight with Spain in Cuba, that whole little event where the British decided they wanted a round two and they burned Washington before we sent the world's foremost powdered wig aficionados back to the land of poor dentistry, the aforementioned Pancho Villa incidents, California was an Empire for all of about 30 seconds, and of course WW2, which was supposed to start with a sucker punch from Japan taking us out from the fight in the Pacific, and end with another Invasion on our Southern border by Mexico.

And of course, as previously mentioned, the Canadian weapon of mass destruction.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Actually the U.S. has been under existential threat or threat of invasion since the Revolution a few times,

If by a few you mean once. The War of 1812, which was a war we really shared equal part in starting, cause you know. The first revolution went so well, why not have another one?

there's been multiple scrapes with Mexico

All of which we started. We we're the mean play ground bully pushing poor little Mexico around the sand box. Honestly I'm surprised people in Mexico don't hate us. They'd probably be a lot better off if they hadn't been our whipping boy for most of the 19th century.

and a knife fight with Spain in Cuba

We started it. We got tired of pushing poor Mexico around the sand box and decided the kick the poor chemo patient in the nuts (19th century Spain is the chemo patient)

the aforementioned Pancho Villa incidents

Villa couldn't invade the US anymore than a rough and tumble motorcycle gang could. Really it's kind of laughable we pay as much attention (then and now) to his antics as we do.

California was an Empire for all of about 30 seconds

I'm not even sure how that qualified as a threat of invasion since Americans were the ones who formed the Republic of California and the whole point was to take California and join the US. Somehow California managed to pull a Texas but didn't let it go to their heads, which is weird since it's California and they seem to let everything else go to their heads XD

and of course WW2, which was supposed to start with a sucker punch from Japan taking us out from the fight in the Pacific, and

Japan was never going to invade us. There was 0 capability for them to even make an attempt. The best they could do was taking some islands in Alaska that honest, we could have just let them keep those. We hardly use them for anything XD

end with another Invasion on our Southern border by Mexico.

What? Are you confusing the Zimmerman incident from WWI? Mexico was never going to invade us during WWII or WWI for that matter, so it's a moot point anyway. Especially WWII. Mexican laborers worked in US factories. Mexico cut all trade with Germany and Japan. They nominally joined the war on May 30, 1942 on our side. Hell, a Mexican foreign national was brought in to work on the Manhattan Project.

While Japan may not have intended an invasion, the Germans were certainly planning to.

 Grey Templar wrote:
the Germans were certainly planning to.

Yeah? And how were they going to do that?

Someone saying in a private meeting "lets invade America" does not constitute an actual threat of invasion if the act is impossible for them to achieve. Germany couldn't even manage to get Sea Lion past square one half.

Sure, they couldn't have done it immediately. But in 5 years after taking over all of Europe they could have.

Its a very good idea to eliminate threats before they are capable of doing harm to you. Less bloodshed overall. Better to take out an opponent while you can than wait till you're on equal footing.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they couldn't have done it immediately. But in 5 years after taking over all of Europe they could have.

That assumes they could have taken over all of Europe, another thing they were never going to do. Given that Hitler wasn't even antagonistic towards the US in any particular way, I fail to see how they'd be a threat to us even if by some miracle (or act of the devil?) they managed to do it.

Its a very good idea to eliminate threats before they are capable of doing harm to you.

And here I thought the punishment came after the crime ~ Chris Evans. American Actor

Why give this gakker press????????? Ignore that fat bastard and let this thread die.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they couldn't have done it immediately. But in 5 years after taking over all of Europe they could have.

That assumes they could have taken over all of Europe, another thing they were never going to do. Given that Hitler wasn't even antagonistic towards the US in any particular way, I fail to see how they'd be a threat to us even if by some miracle (or act of the devil?) why they'd want to.

Its a very good idea to eliminate threats before they are capable of doing harm to you.

And here I thought the punishment came after the crime ~ Chris Evans. American Actor

They could have taken over Europe if they hadn't poked the Bear.

They needed to simply fortify the eastern front against the eventual Russian attack. The Germans bit off more than they could chew at once, plus Hitler was way too impatient and impulsive. Patience would have secured them Europe(sans Russia)

Its incredibly naive to say that the Germans weren't a threat to the US. Maybe not an immediate threat, but a definite long term one.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they couldn't have done it immediately. But in 5 years after taking over all of Europe they could have.

That assumes they could have taken over all of Europe, another thing they were never going to do. Given that Hitler wasn't even antagonistic towards the US in any particular way, I fail to see how they'd be a threat to us even if by some miracle (or act of the devil?) they managed to do it.

Its a very good idea to eliminate threats before they are capable of doing harm to you.

And here I thought the punishment came after the crime ~ Chris Evans. American Actor

Europe, at least Western Europe, wasn't an issue. The problem was those pesky Russians and their gak-tons of bodies. Also, while have an invasion plan (at least not that I know of), Germany did draw up plans to bomb the eastern seaboard. They were scrapped, though more because, by the point they were drawn up, they were irrelevant.And REALLY expensive.

It didn't; Germany declared war first. Apparently the Japanese ambassador wouldn't shut about some verbal agreement they made.

That all being said, though, what does a discussion of unrelated "what ifs" have to do with a rotund jackass making inappropriate comments?

 Grey Templar wrote:


They could have taken over Europe if they hadn't poked the Bear.

And they were always going to poke the bear. Read Mein Kampf. It's got an entire section detailing poking the bear.

They needed to simply fortify the eastern front against the eventual Russian attack.

People need to abandon the ill informed notion that a country run by a mad man was every going to do the smart thing. They also need to abandon the ill informed notion that any amount of fortification could stop the bear, which eventually would have mauled Germany with or without poking. Read Stalin. His plan for mauling Germany was waaaaay better than Germany's plan for poking the bear. Poor guy had a depression fit when Hitler beat him to the punch.

Remember NATO? that military alliance formed by Western Europe when they got scared shitless at the end of WWII and realized that Russia was so insanely powerful that none of them stood a chance? Sure it turned out Russia's bad assery kind of decayed in the mid 50's and pretty much collapsed by the 60's, but hey this is why we don't make real world decisions based on 'what if in 15 years they invade us' scenarios!

Patience would have secured them Europe.

Just because someone sits in a secret meeting and says "lets be patient" doesn't mean that will actually happen. Expansionist states aren't exactly known for patience.

Its incredibly naive to say that the Germans weren't a threat to the US.

No, it's reality. They weren't a threat to us. Now granted, I have no issue with going to war to fight threats to others. Whether they are a direct threat to us is only one valid reason to go to war. But why people continually like engaging in this insanity that every ho dunk dictator is a threat to freedom in any term of time frame isn't practical, realist, sensible, or rational. It's just plain old fear mongering.


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 Stonebeard wrote:


That all being said, though, what does a discussion of unrelated "what ifs" have to do with a rotund jackass making inappropriate comments?

Probably nothing. I'm just a know it all XD

This made my day, and to all my brothers.
http://www.tpnn.com/2015/01/20/green-beret-sniper-pens-awesome-letter-to-crisco-sweating-michael-moore/

Someone tell Michael Moore to sharpen his pencil and pull up some paper, he just got School'd

Now THAT is how you burn someone. Damn.

Scoring a sick burn on someone as irrelevant as Michael Moore? That's kind of like...

I am no fan of Michael Moore, but lets be honest, starting off your letter with a couple fat jokes is hardly a "sick burn."

He was showing a lot of anger for a person that only laughed off the comments.

I feel like, for as many people as there are who aren't taking Moore seriously, there are a lot of people in that group clearly taking Moore seriously.

I'm kind of bewildered anyone cares. Really. It's pointless drama so that a particular person who thrives on attention gets given attention. You want him to go away? Let him.

Didnt germany have submarines and bombers designed specifically to come to america and launch a direct attack on us? Its been years but I swear I saw a documentary on it once


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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think pointing out that the US fight in Iraq wasn't actually protecting American freedoms is exactly "American bashing", and I think that kind of simplistic thinking is what has lead to exactly the situation that other thread is about.

When has the US ever needed to wage war in order to protect American freedom? What is the last time the US was invaded by an enemy with the intent to conquer? Since the Revolutionary War, the US has never had to protect its freedom from foreign agression. "Protecting American freedom" is just government propaganda. The US wages war in order to defend its international interests, not to defend its people and their values.

war of 1812?

There were also some Germans captured who had been preliminarily trained to be administrators of captured American territory.

They were planning well in advance, a little too much but planning nonetheless. Nazi Germany was a huge threat, one that had to be destroyed before it grew the teeth it needed to carry out that threat.

And while Hitler was crazy, his followers were not. If he had simply left the detail work to his advisers it would have gone much better for them. He should have remained an idealistic figurehead who didn't get involved in the details.

Didnt germany have submarines and bombers designed specifically to come to america and launch a direct attack on us? Its been years but I swear I saw a documentary on it once

Germany had no long range bomber program. The one man who wanted to develop one, Walther Wever, died in a plane crash before he could sell the idea to anyone. Not that it mattered. Germany didn't have the resources to build a meaningful long range bombing force anyway. They didn't even have an aircraft carrier, let along bombers that could cross the Atlantic and back. The US didn't even have those until after the war.

German U-Boats were frequent in American coastal waters, present even before we entered the war. But these boats were not for attacking so much as tracking shipping movements During the planning for Sea Lion the idea of 'what if we have to fight America' came up several times, which is often taken as a sign they intended the fight us, when really they were just discussing the inherent risk that America would intervene in a prolonged war or join the war if the UK was invaded. No one in the German military (outside the SS) thought America could be invaded. I think in one of their planning sessions they discussed the idea of submarines carrying troops, since they couldn't figure a way around Royal Navy superiority, but they never designed anything along those lines.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And while Hitler was crazy, his followers were not.

Crazy men do not end up in charge because they're followers are sane. The military command of Germany was saner than Hitler and his Nazi party stooges, and most of the leaders of the SS, (Himmler, who is kind of both crazy and sane at the same time. Depended on his mood ), but then they didn't get to make any decisions past 1943.

He should have remained an idealistic figurehead who didn't get involved in the details.

Again. Megalomaniacs are known for doing the smart thing. He would have never ended up running Germany as anyone less crazy.

But they were still a long term threat. A direct one to our freedom and way of life. Do you really think Hitler would have been satisfied with Europe and Africa? They would have eventually become a direct threat.

Pretending that we were not fighting for our freedom in WW2 is beyond stupid.

Pretending that we were not fighting for our freedom in WW2 is beyond stupid.

No, it's reality (granted, I often find reality stupid but that's the world we live in ). Our Freedom wasn't in danger during WWII. The freedom of others, certainly. Not ours. WWII could have ended with us doing nothing and we'd have been just fine. Whatever may have come after after the 50,000 'What ifs' necessary to make Germany actually come out of that war on top, is not WWII. It's not even reality. It's so far outside the realm of reality it's fantasy.

The very idea that WWII was even about 'Freedom' was laughable. You know what the Allies were after WWII? Of the big five, two were communist states, and France was political chaos. The UK and the US were still imperial powers with oversea colonies. Poland was under a puppet government. The post war Baltic states were either Soviet Satellites or Dictatorships. We split Germany in two (completely ignoring German right of self determination). North Africa largely remained colonial territories into the late forties and fifties. Yep. We sure spread that Freedom (and by that, we liberated France and sent it into 12 years of might as well not have had a government while Russia bent most of the rest of Europe under it's thumb). WWII was the last vestige of the Imperial era of Western Europe. We can paint as being about 'Freedom' all we want. But it wasn't and the results really do speak for themselves. All we got was 'better than Nazi Germany and at least we stopped Russia from going all the way to Spain.'

About the only liberating we really did was transitioning Imperial Japan to a constitutional system and freeing Korea and Manchuria. Compared to Europe, the scuffle in Asia actually went somewhat okay on the Freedom front until we got obsessed with that whole domino theory thing.