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A Short Reply

1) Really depends on your point of view - but those skaven dreadnoughts were Farking Fugly

2) I don't want Fantasy Space Marines....not even a hint of it...and yes, yes, I do hate the very idea of fantasy space marines.....unless of course they were inside another fantasy space marine RIDING a fantasy space marine (In other words an idea as dumb as centurions)

3) They had a great round base skirmish game...it was call LOTR SBG and they ignored it and marginalized it until it was a shell....before that they had Mordhiem

Fantasy died in 7th when Matt Ward introduced the Daemons Armybook

Course that's just MHO, enjoy 40K in the Old World

Cheers
Papasmurf

Are people not capable of waiting for facts before conclusions anymore? Positive or negative.

 curran12 wrote:
Are people not capable of waiting for facts before conclusions anymore? Positive or negative.

What do you want? For nobody to discuss the rumors at all until the new edition is released? This is just about seeing the positives in the 9th rumors.

 Bottle wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Are people not capable of waiting for facts before conclusions anymore? Positive or negative.

What do you want? For nobody to discuss the rumors at all until the new edition is released? This is just about seeing the positives in the 9th rumors.

I apologize if I came off as a little direct, I actually do feel a bit bad about it. That said, I always advocate for more information before discussion. I know in a place like Dakka that facts are never anything to get in the way of a conclusion, but there's just nothing we know for sure now. To me, discussion and "well what is good/bad about 9th" only muddies the waters further and confuses those looking for facts.

 curran12 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Are people not capable of waiting for facts before conclusions anymore? Positive or negative.

What do you want? For nobody to discuss the rumors at all until the new edition is released? This is just about seeing the positives in the 9th rumors.

I apologize if I came off as a little direct, I actually do feel a bit bad about it. That said, I always advocate for more information before discussion. I know in a place like Dakka that facts are never anything to get in the way of a conclusion, but there's just nothing we know for sure now. To me, discussion and "well what is good/bad about 9th" only muddies the waters further and confuses those looking for facts.

I understand. I tried to be careful in the wording of my original post to highlight that these are just -rumours-. Maybe I'll edit the title too, to make it more clear.

I think there is a definite worth to discussing these rumors however, especially the positives as so many players are feeling anxious and maybe a little gloomy about them.

What about you Curran? What have you heard from the rumors that you like the sound of? Or what positives do you expect in light of the rumors?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PapaSmurf wrote:
A Short Reply

1) Really depends on your point of view - but those skaven dreadnoughts were Farking Fugly

2) I don't want Fantasy Space Marines....not even a hint of it...and yes, yes, I do hate the very idea of fantasy space marines.....unless of course they were inside another fantasy space marine RIDING a fantasy space marine (In other words an idea as dumb as centurions)

3) They had a great round base skirmish game...it was call LOTR SBG and they ignored it and marginalized it until it was a shell....before that they had Mordhiem

Fantasy died in 7th when Matt Ward introduced the Daemons Armybook

Course that's just MHO, enjoy 40K in the Old World

Cheers
Papasmurf

Thanks for your opinions as jaded as they might be! :p Do you see no positives here or is it only doom and gloom?

1. I liked the Skaven models. My favorites have been Nagash, the Spirit Hosts and the Blight Kings. What did you think of those?

2. Hmm, something tells me you don't like 40k space marines too. Are my powers of deduction right? Haha

3. Mordhiem was great, you say LOTR was great too... From that reasoning we can hope this one will be great as well, right? I Guess this one was your positive then, my bad!

I only know the broadest of rumors, and I'm not very comfortable making any decisions on them because of what I see.

As a quick example, the whole round base thing. There's something about that whole rumor that bothers me; there's only that one picture from the digital White Dwarf (the paper copy does not show the base) that shows a round base. In everything put out since, there's been not a single round base. If this was some herald of a new thing, why not show all round bases? To me, it doesn't make sense that it is a huge upheaval of rules based on one single picture from one White Dwarf where there is plenty of other pictures of new stuff as well. Throughout the entire Thanquol book, there is not a single round base, even on the stuff that is presumably brand new and most likely to have a round base assuming a rules shift. But that said, the conclusion has been made without any evidence.

The bottom line is that there's just insufficient evidence to say anything. And the rumor sites just don't have anything concrete to give us. Once we have that, I'll be happy to make changes or decisions, but until then, I don't want to contribute to the confusion.

1. Ya, I've been loving all their kits lately.

2. I think the whole thing with the "Fantasy Space Marine" is a newer version/incarnation of Grail Knights. Teclis stealing Ulric's flame makes me think that he does something with that to strengthen select Empire soldiery, or some such, similar with how Lileath has been using Grail Knights to protect her and her new pocket realm.

3. I look forward to skirmish mode. Some of my most fun GW moments have been with their skirmish games. Round bases, I'll believe it when I see it.

Nagash was alright I guess but I just cannot really like anything about the giant models with game breaking rules.....seriously I was a red shirt at one time and unfortunately GW has driven me completely away

No I was an avid Space marine player I just see absolutely no need for space marines in fantasy

No unfortunately given the state of the rules that have been produced by GDUB in recent years I see no room for optimism about my once favorite game

Sad but that is what I see....maybe you will be right but Matt Ward still writes for them and I have not seen porcine air aces yet

cheers
Papasmurf

Thanks for the input everyone, the 3 points I made were just my personal positives. If there are other things about the rumors that have you feeling positive please post away

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what they come up with fluff wise, especially if it's an on going storyline rather than a permanent 5mins to midnight setting.

I'm pretty sure I'll dive into wfb again if it becomes more accessible to start a force, plus something fresh miniature wise.

I do get that doom and gloom feeling WH fans are going through...

But if you think about it, even if GW kills off the WH settings to reboot everything into this 'war of the bubbles', at least you got a sendoff for the setting and characters.

It's better than many miniature lines who were discontinued and that was it.

My .02

I do not want to see any form of fantasy version of SM, if I want to have that I will play 40k! I enjoyed the setting that was before some cave gnome in GW decided they needed to wreck the setting.
They had two very, very good skirmish games beforehand, witch they then proceded to wreck and leave for dead. LOTR( the old game) and Mordheim.
The moddels they have relased for End Tims has been foul, even by GW standars( looking at Nagash & Co alongside Skaven "Dreads")

 Trondheim wrote:
I do not want to see any form of fantasy version of SM, if I want to have that I will play 40k! I enjoyed the setting that was before some cave gnome in GW decided they needed to wreck the setting.
They had two very, very good skirmish games beforehand, witch they then proceded to wreck and leave for dead. LOTR( the old game) and Mordheim.
The moddels they have relased for End Tims has been foul, even by GW standars( looking at Nagash & Co alongside Skaven "Dreads")

Hey Trondheim, we're trying to be positive here. Surely you can't hate all the End Times models? What about the Spirt Hosts? They look great to me and a vast improvement over the old:

Old



New

As a non-Fantasy player, I find the rumours to be very enticing. I hate square bases, and hate blocks of units, but the fantasy setting is a cool one. If, by this time next year, I can have a full army of 30-50 models, all on round bases and a truly skirmish ruleset, that mught just be what brings me back to the Fantasy fold. Bring it on, I say!

 Paradigm wrote:
As a non-Fantasy player, I find the rumours to be very enticing. I hate square bases, and hate blocks of units, but the fantasy setting is a cool one. If, by this time next year, I can have a full army of 30-50 models, all on round bases and a truly skirmish ruleset, that mught just be what brings me back to the Fantasy fold. Bring it on, I say!

So what you actually want is 40k, just using fantasy models? Make a counts-as army.

 Bottle wrote:
So this will contradict many of my previous threads, but I think that is a good representation of the turmoil all Warhammer fans are facing. Change is coming, and although many of the rumors make me feel anxious or sad, perhaps we can see this in a positive light.

So let's post some things we are excited about, or perhaps things we are hopeful for in light of the rumors

1. Amazing new models.


Really it's the draw for GW. They make fantastic models and the End Times kits have been some of the best ever. I really can't wait for my armies to get some cool new kits for them!

I like the 13k of amazing models that are about to become obsolete.

2. The new faction. (Warriors of Order).

So, yes, on paper fantasy space marines sounds lame as.

Yes. Yes it does, on this we agree...

But do you actually dislike 40k marines? I have a soft spot for a number of chapters. I'm sure if there is a much diversity in the new faction there will be something for most to enjoy! (Combined with great new models).

...Oh, you were setting up a rhetorical question...

I don't dislike Space Marines in 40k. I do dislike them, yes, already, in Fantasy.

And if the new range is even half as popular as 40k marines that will safeguard the game from being dropped.

Lotta ifs there. Fantasy admittedly isn't doing so hot. However GW is about to royally and violently piss the feth off the current fan base. This whole "Vets dont buy anything, hurr hurr!" logic is asinine. Every last veteran player i know blows around a hundred bucks on their fantasy army a month, in addition to other stuff. Hell i have 2 armies, and contemplating if i want to build a third. Also, the fantasy skirmish market has a LOT of competition. A lot. There is no guarantee of capturing market share. People that have left GW usually are rabid about not going back. And with this move, GW is about to create a lot more people in that category. It's by no means a guarantee that this skirmish 9th is going to capture the market share required to make it a success.

I am still hoping that the lines have been crossed somehow, and this fantasy skirmish game is a specialty game, and 9th is going to stay mass combat, even if it means less support for WHFB than we're typically used to over the last couple years.

3. The focus on skirmish...

Dude. If i want to play a skirmish game, i have nigh infinitely better rules making companies i can turn to. I like WHFB because it's a large army scale game, and its beer and pretzel-y large army scale game. If i want to play a skirmish game in a quasi-fantasy setting, why am i not playing Warmachine ?

... and possibly round bases....

Again useful in skirmish games. Probably something i'd be excited for if 1) 13k points of elves werne't about to be wallpapered for the next edition. 2) i was interested in a skirmish game made by GW that didn't rhyme with Fecromunda or Nordheim, and 3) on what planet is any current fantasy player actually excited about base geometry changing !?

I'm hoping that this will mean terrain will become much more interactive. We could have games with ruined temples or crampt tunnels, bridges, walkways, lots of interesting possiblities.

Okay this one i'll grant. I have made a TON of really cool terrain pieces that are all but useless in mass scale armies. Fair.

So what do you guys think will be great about 9th?

The fact my group has agreed to play 8th in perpetuity if even half the stupid gak about 9th we've heard is true ?

I dunno... new models i guess that will make cool conversions / champs / lords ? I am really reaching here. I am not, currently, seeing much to be positive about. 9th is a barbed phallus smeared with honey, rolled in broken glass, waiting to be applied to veterans of the game.


-- Haight

Lol Haight your thoughts and mine coincide beautifully and the imagery generated by your last statement would make Slaanesh very proud

cheers
Papasmurf

1) I've disliked all the models when I came out...then saw them unprimed in person and thought "actually those aren't so bad." And then saw them painted on line and thought "actually those are pretty bad ass."

...seriously, am I the only person who hates most of the work GW's studio painters are putting out these days? Stop with the cartoon colours!

2) I gak on space marines constantly. The overabundance of space marines is the primary factor that drove me away from 40K. I played a whole WH40K tournament and played NOT ONE SINGLE army save space marines. Different brands of space marines...but still space marines.

I also own some 6,000 points of them.

I strongly expect that these new "WHFB marines" will be the new incarnation of Bretonnia. And good! I've been saying for ages that a grittier, meaner looking Bretonnia would be an awesome, inspiring faction. Give it some of that "crusading monastic knightly order" vibe that armies like Black Templars have and they'd be a shoe-in for the most popular race in fantasy.

I suspect that's what we'll get. The Grail Knights will come out in force, with their raison d'etre destroyed upon the rumoured destruction of the old world, and they'll accumulate knights from other factions to become a new faction of armoured badassery.

...instead of a poncy motley of garish colours and silly parade dress.

3) I doubt there will be as much emphasis on skirmish as people say. But quite frankly, if you look at what most people are running these days in the competitive scene it's all highly mobile fast cav units, solo chariots/monsters/characters, and cav buses. Things that are fast, mobile, and make for a fun and dynamic play experience.

I have no problem with round bases and skirmish in principle. My only concern is that they not undermine the line of sight rules that make WHFB so much deeper and more complex than WH40K. 360* line of sight is a blight upon any strategy game, and without it WHFB wouldn't be half the game it is today.

Hopefully they're only putting models onto round bases so that they can fit into better movement trays (i.e. ones that don't need to be magnetized to rest on a hill). You can't do skirmish with hundreds of models on the table though. Unless they're fundamentally altering the way the game is played I think that round bases will end up being comparable to square bases in everything but appearance.

I think the bottom line is if they manage to totally screw up Fantasy and alienate the current player base, we'll just keep playing 8th.

I'm interested in seeing what they do. I think it's pretty ballsy what they are doing with advancing the story with End Times. If I didn't know better I would say they may be testing the waters to a major revision of Fantasy with an eye towards making it profitable.

Put it this way; most of the major capital investment is making those molds, not pressing the models or printing the books (I'll let you guess as to which product of the 2 makes them more money). Lopping off model lines does them no favors (at least when we're talking plastics that are already in production).

If 9th really sucks and tanks it could get the 6th edition 40K treatment and just have new fluff written where some savvy hero manages to fix the all the wrongs and gets the old world remade in its old glory.

Thanks for your comments Haight. Although I didn't intend for this thread to be about shooting down my attempts at putting a positive spin on the rumors, but more an exercise in forcing the players to try and place their own positive spin in a way to relieve anxiety of the game changing.

I agree with a lot of your points, by the way.

With regards to the "space marine" army. I imagine them to be a great looking army of elite paladin style troops. Perhaps with different orders to mirror the idea of chapters. I don't imagine them all being bright primary colours however. I think GW will do them justice

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
As a non-Fantasy player, I find the rumours to be very enticing. I hate square bases, and hate blocks of units, but the fantasy setting is a cool one. If, by this time next year, I can have a full army of 30-50 models, all on round bases and a truly skirmish ruleset, that mught just be what brings me back to the Fantasy fold. Bring it on, I say!

So what you actually want is 40k, just using fantasy models? Make a counts-as army.

No he wants a skirmish game in a Warhammer Fantasy setting. 40k isn't the only way to do a skirmish game.

I am personally looking forward to a skirmish ruleset that works specifically for a Warhammer Fantasy setting. I don't dislike whats coming, but I am not fond of what we'd be losing. I want both game styles to exist (I'm greedy like that).

I can and I will loath the models with passion. As for the spirit hosts..... Never liked the old ones and the new ones, well they are not any better. Sure if your 13 I would assume they looked cool but for someone whom demands a bit of effort from the developers of a game, I do.

I will stick to the playing 8th or some other version if this pans out as feared. Or simply store my models until I find a game system that dose not ruin a system, just to compensate for the companys oafish ways

Ah, the good old "I don't like them, so they are for children!" criticism. Thereby implying that anyone that likes them is either a child, or has the mindset of a child... Usually used when someone can't articulate their criticism in a mature way, ironically enough.

Stay classy dude.

 nels1031 wrote:
Ah, the good old "I don't like them, so they are for children!" criticism. Thereby implying that anyone that likes them is either a child, or has the mindset of a child... Usually used when someone can't articulate their criticism in a mature way, ironically enough.

Stay classy dude.

always

Well, at least you embrace it.

Sweet Dreadnaught in your gallery btw! I had one when I was 13.

 nels1031 wrote:
Well, at least you embrace it.

Sweet Dreadnaught in your gallery btw! I had one when I was 13.

Yes one must do so

And yes, cant say I am very good at painting Dreads. Power armour is more my nature, must be a reason why I leave the painting of them to profesionals that can be trusted with paint

 PapaSmurf wrote:
Lol Haight your thoughts and mine coincide beautifully and the imagery generated by your last statement would make Slaanesh very proud

cheers
Papasmurf

Thanks Papasmurf! He / she / it / shim always was my favorite chaos god !

Huh...

...hard to be positive about the changes, if they're really going to be anything like the ones I've been hearing about. I guess it's very positive that most people I know are like me, and it'll still be easy to wrassle up games of 8th edition after whatever happens this summer.

And some of the models will probably be pretty, although I'm definitely never going to buy any new books that invalidate my current armies or rebase my miniatures. Depending on what they release, it could still be used as proxies for stuff in 8th edition, though.

I think 9th has grate potential, if properly implemented a scalable system that allows you to play both a skirmish and army size battle would be awesome, cutting back unit sizes back to something like 6th and 7th, keeping blocks but getting rid of wheeling, this are all very good opportunities, the risks are that failing at properly implement this, it would alienate a good size (likely most of it) of the fantasy player base and likely kill the game.

Were any other company doing this move i would feel confident, this is something the people form FFG and PP could likely pull of. GW on the other hand, has a track record of screwing it self out of opportunities over and over and over again.