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Ok I don't have all the models at all for this, but as many of you are aware, I am currently starting a renegades list to ally with my CSM. After going away for a couple of days, I've come back to IA:13 and realised the previous list wasn't at the maximum it could be. Here is a new 2000pt list for me to collect towards:

Renegades:
Mutant overlord with covenant of tzeentch (with earthshakers)
4 disciples

10 mutants

10 mutants

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 spawn

3 rapier laser destroyers
Militia training

3 rapier laser deatroyers
Militia training

3 Earthshaker cannons

3 Giant Spawn (all individual units)

CSM:
Chaos Lord (with spawn)
MoK, AoBF, Jugger, Sigil, mbs

Kharn the Betrayer (in Dreadclaw)

10 cultists

5 CSMs
Bp & ccw
Dreadclaw

Sicaran

2 Bloodslaughterers

Plaguehulk

2000pts

So the noticable differences:
-Plague Hulk is basically an upgraded Soul Grinder avaliable for CSM. It is Nurgle aligned so has shrouded, and has very good weaponary.
-Dreadclaw. I discounted the Dreadclaw after reading peoples opinions on it. What a mistake that was! The problem was people were acting as if it is a drop pod due to its full name. It's not. It's an av12 3hp assault fast skimmer that can deepstrike T1 and then turbo boost 18" before releasing its cargo T2. It can then pop into flyer mode and cause d6 st5 ap5 no cover save hits against EVERY unit it passes over with its 18-36" move. All with a 4+ jink save. This thing is amazing by the looks of it! Also has OS as a DT.
-Kharn. Can utterly destroy that LR or knight that needs removing with his 7 st7 hitting on a 2+ ap2 armourbane attacks at I5. Assaulting T2 out of the dreadclaw.

I'll break that down into groups.
Backfield support: 6 laserdestroyers, 3 earthshakers and a sicaran (these come to a ridiculously cheap 440pts).
Wave 1: 4 units of 3 spawn backed up by a juggerlord (these spawn are all OS) Kharn and squad assaulting out of a dreadclaw.
Wave 2: 2 Bloodslaughterers (average 8 st10 ws5 I4 attacks EACH on the charge), a Plague Hulk and 3 MCs with 4+D6 ws4 st6 attacks each on the charge, with 1 of 3 extras; opponents at -2I, all opponents in base contact suffering a st6 hit or 2+ fnp. On T6 W4 4+ models.
Extras: 3 squads of 10 mutants/cultists and 4 disciples to provide even more OS/scoring or create speedbumps to help out artillery.

At 3000pts I would also take my beautiful new Greater Brass Scorpion and a Mayhem Pack with MMs deepstriking in.

I'm flabbergasted how good IA:13 really is!

Its amazing how much you can fit in when you try.

Let's start from the top, why the demagogue in the earthshakers? They can't snap fire


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I am apprehensive about kharne in a dreadclaw. One in every sixty games, he will be eaten before he even hits the table.


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Ok that is unlikely I guess but could happen!


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1/36 if you dont fill the claw!

For leadership mainly. Plus if he's the warlord (juggerlord and kharn will be in the fray so probably won't want these as warlord), then it will take an excessive amount of opponents firepower to get StW. What else can he go in in that list really though?
I never run vehicles with deamonic possession. Do you have to roll for eating in deployment too? If not then he'll never get eaten as I'll probably never re-embark.

Yeah actually the earthshakers is probably safest place for the warlord!

The dreadclaw comes with daemonic possession. If you check the rule in the main rules of the codex (not the summary) it says you have to test at the start of the game. Not a dealbreaker but would fill to max capacity to make sure kharn doesn't get eaten!

Ah yeh I checked the summary at the back of the CSM dex and it just said 'Roll a D6 after a unit embarks'. You would assume the summary would say the same thing. Oh well.
Still worth the 1/36 chance of losing kharn if 35 of every 36 games he roars out of the dreadclaw. It'd only be a 160pt loss anyway so only a 4.4pt loss on average.

Haha good logic

Btw what's your opinions on the 'odd' things in IA:13?
Namely:
-Spined beasts being noticably worse than Giant Spawn yet costing 60pts more in the same slot.
-Baleton shatter charge being unable to fire due to blast rules.
-Spawn being in renegades Elites section despite only being able to be taken as troops.
-Hellstrike missiles still being useless.
-Tons of weapon stats missing (some covered in IA:2, which I have fortunately)?

Those are the 5 things I think are the only downsides of the book.


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(Maybe im just being greedy wanting 3 more slots for spawn from elites :-p)

Poly Ranger wrote:
Btw what's your opinions on the 'odd' things in IA:13?
Namely:
-Spined beasts being noticably worse than Giant Spawn yet costing 60pts more in the same slot.
Well, the spined beasts are proper daemons, which comes with some advantages, like deep strike and invul buffing. They also get S8 on the charge, which is pretty good. Not 60- points worth. (and they are different slots, although supposedly fw got them the wrong way around)

-Baleton shatter charge being unable to fire due to blast rules.
FW have ruled in an email that these roll to hit, instead of using a blast. yes that means they are totally useless.

-Spawn being in renegades Elites section despite only being able to be taken as troops.
Sigh, yeah stupid.


-Hellstrike missiles still being useless.
Not totally useless. (tho questionable rules) The weapon pods can still fire normally. Also as weapons are fired sequentially, if you fire one missile last, i think its fine.

-Tons of weapon stats missing (some covered in IA:2, which I have fortunately)
-Very frustrating.

I've spotted a few more mistakes, and loads of very dubious points costs (maelific ammo wtf?). Its stilll a good book. If I owned a daemon lord I would be furious.


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I also love how tyhe book references out to IA: apocalypse for the spined chaos beast, even tho the rules are in it!

As far as the spawn being elite that's a lot like CSM taking noise marines (elite slot) as troops with a slaneesh lord. Maybe the new CSM codex will also do the same thing.

The spined beast can be upgraded to specific demons which might be useful but I'm not sure.

For me the most puzzling thing are the psykers. Does anyone know how to get the rogue psykers to be useful??!?

Really cool list... However I'd take the Mayhem Pack with three
Multi Meltas instead of the Kharn / Dreadclaws combo.

Yeh the fact you need to play a 4k game for some deamon lords is crazy. Allthough they are exceptionally strong.

Too right - the psykers are incredibly pants!

Mayhem pack would be a good shout, but im trying to keep it at 2 detachments at 2k or under. Means I can take out the plague hulk without changing anything else for 1850pt tournament play. At 3k the mayhem pack would definitely join the carnage :-D!

Good point, most tournemants are two detachments only right? It's really a crazy list I cant wait to hear some battle reports and how your strategy works in practice.

If instead of the biker lord you took a sorc you could take more of the cool stuff in ia13. maybe the anti air stuff in the book is better than the other stuff you are taking in the csm detachment. I am thinking of a similar list but instead of another CAD taking CSM allies.

Yes. It's stilll an excellent guide. Easily held a daemon lord I'd end up being mad.

 Opera wrote:
Good point, most tournemants are two detachments only right? It's really a crazy list I cant wait to hear some battle reports and how your strategy works in practice.

It'll be a while unfortunately as I'm only just starting to collect it. On a positive note though, I've just opened 12 ebay bought spawn from 2 different sellers, 4 expertly painted and based, the other 8 consisting of some epically good conversions.


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rama1229 wrote:
If instead of the biker lord you took a sorc you could take more of the cool stuff in ia13. maybe the anti air stuff in the book is better than the other stuff you are taking in the csm detachment. I am thinking of a similar list but instead of another CAD taking CSM allies.

Awww, but I like my juggerlord... plus he's another something from the list I already own ;-).
I've gone for no AA as a strategy. If the opponent has invested in tons of airpower, then he will have to bring his flyers/FMCs into hover/landing as otherwise I have enough in this list to table a point wise numerically inferior ground force easily. If he's invested in only one or 2 flyers, then I have so many units that I'm hoping these should only prove an irritant.


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Shopping list:
- 20 ccw cultists as mutants (cheap from ebay)
- 3 earthshakers from a cheap WW2 model website
- 6 laser destroyers from FW
- Kharn (although I suppose I could use a counts as CL until a tournament)
- Dreadclaw from FW
- 3 Giant Spawn (from ???)
- Plague Hulk from FW.

These purchased then it's done. Cultists and earthshakers next stop. Where to get Giant Spawn though?

Hmm giant spawn are tricky. I like the maggoth lords for fantasy. that probably isn't cheaper Haha.


There is potential in other toys. I've seen nice macfarlane spawn stuff, or hell-raiser.

Wow! Maggoth lords look perfect!


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And there's 3 of them! Sorted! :-D