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I feel with the nerf to tesla with snap shots no longer adding the benefit of extra shots it will make tesla all but useless. AP nothing makes this mostly useless, old benefit was could cause lots of saves, now 1 or 2 saves per round of shooting, maybe, kinda useless.

It's more shots at long range and let's you assault after firing without attaching a Phaeron. Its not much, but at least there's some uses.
I will admit to feeling a bit disheartened at first. I even pulled out my war machines models to remind myself of some rules.
There are definitely a lot of little things that big me still (like 6+ on scarabs now...), but I've crunched a small list out and am quite happy with what I'm seeing. I'm really looking forward to letting people know wraiths are T5 now. Resurrection protocols are also looking like lots of "fun" to screw around with, especially with the drastically cheaper elites. It's nice to have some new options to try out after a few years of nothing but barges and night scythes.

 vipoid wrote:
With regard to the nerf to Tesla, it makes me more than a little depressed that Annihilation Barges are no longer useful anti-air. Frankly, it was nice to have anti-air stuff that wasn't a) crap against everything else *cough* Hydra *cough* or b) an aircraft itself.

Also, whilst it *might* have been reasonable for the Tesla Destructor (still not convinced)... what about all our other Tesla? What's the point of even taking Tesla elsewhere? You have to trade Rapid Fire (i.e. twice the shots at close range), AP4 *and* the Gauss rule for a few more shots at 24", and no benefit whatsoever when snapshotting. I don't see the appeal.

That's so sad. An anti air vehicle that never should've been ends up not being one.

Tesla works perfectly now, it just doesn't reduce the snap fire penalty to 50% or less.

It was never meant to have a benefit when snap shooting, that was fix and that's perfect.

morgoth wrote:

Tesla works perfectly now, it just doesn't reduce the snap fire penalty to 50% or less.

It was never meant to have a benefit when snap shooting, that was fix and that's perfect.

Except that it's far from perfect because it just makes Tesla all but pointless on most units that can take it.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Tesla works perfectly now, it just doesn't reduce the snap fire penalty to 50% or less.

It was never meant to have a benefit when snap shooting, that was fix and that's perfect.

Except that it's far from perfect because it just makes Tesla all but pointless on most units that can take it.

It makes Tesla what it's supposed to be.

Your argument is that because Tesla was glitched and the glitch seemed really nice to you, it's bad now.

We'll see.

morgoth wrote:


It makes Tesla what it's supposed to be.

Your argument is that because Tesla was glitched and the glitch seemed really nice to you, it's bad now.

No, my argument is that, intentional or not, the snapshot thing was what made Tesla worthwhile on a lot of units.

With it gone, there's really no reason to ever take Tesla.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:


It makes Tesla what it's supposed to be.

Your argument is that because Tesla was glitched and the glitch seemed really nice to you, it's bad now.

No, my argument is that, intentional or not, the snapshot thing was what made Tesla worthwhile on a lot of units.

With it gone, there's really no reason to ever take Tesla.

On immortals the Gauss Weapon will almost always be better now, and i liked the idea of tesla but no extra shots when snap firing without giving it something is bad.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:


It makes Tesla what it's supposed to be.

Your argument is that because Tesla was glitched and the glitch seemed really nice to you, it's bad now.

No, my argument is that, intentional or not, the snapshot thing was what made Tesla worthwhile on a lot of units.

With it gone, there's really no reason to ever take Tesla.

On immortals the Gauss Weapon will almost always be better now, and i liked the idea of tesla but no extra shots when snap firing without giving it something is bad.

It makes sense from a design perspective though:

Idea: Let's give them a weapon that gets more hits when you roll a 6.
Implementation: gak, with v6 and snap firing, that gives them only a 50% reduction instead of 75% reduction in fire power.
Fix: That ability doesn't work when snap firing.

And now they get to test their initial idea, after which players will react and they'll know how to adapt it.

morgoth wrote:

It makes sense from a design perspective though:

Idea: Let's give them a weapon that gets more hits when you roll a 6.
Implementation: gak, with v6 and snap firing, that gives them only a 50% reduction instead of 75% reduction in fire power.
Fix: That ability doesn't work when snap firing.

That's missing the wood for the trees. Increased accuracy on snapshots does not, in and of itself, cause problems. Especially when those weapon are markedly worse than comparable weapons. Hence, if you do decide to implement something like this, you have to buff that weapon in other areas instead.

Though, I'd argue the bigger problem is that the snapshot mechanic was, and still is, gak.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

It makes sense from a design perspective though:

Idea: Let's give them a weapon that gets more hits when you roll a 6.
Implementation: gak, with v6 and snap firing, that gives them only a 50% reduction instead of 75% reduction in fire power.
Fix: That ability doesn't work when snap firing.

That's missing the wood for the trees. Increased accuracy on snapshots does not, in and of itself, cause problems. Especially when those weapon are markedly worse than comparable weapons. Hence, if you do decide to implement something like this, you have to buff that weapon in other areas instead.

Though, I'd argue the bigger problem is that the snapshot mechanic was, and still is, gak.

Well yes, that's the forest (not a wood mind you) right there, the fact that Snap Firing doesn't affect everyone equally.
Orks are a very good example of army wide not giving a feth about snap firing.

Still, the first thing to do was to fix the glitch in the Tesla mechanic, and somehow the past years of tesla snap firing gave game developers the idea that even without it Tesla would still be too powerful.
Maybe they were wrong. We'll see.

I dont see the complaint about anti-air here. Dont forget that your basic troop and ghost arks are covered with a weapon that bring down flyers. Granted its not a likely thing to get a six on a six, but when compared to most armies that have zero chance of their basic guns taking down a flyer I think this is not going to be a problem. So rejoice! Nothing bad happened and all will be well, and maybe people might even use monoliths again!

Also I'm not seeing the hate for fluff like shield of Baal. If you wake up and your planet and all your great works is about to be nommed I think you take your chances with the enemy of my enemy. Besides, Anrakyr is not insane, which means he is not stupid and he we killing 2 birds with one stone. Let the Tyranids eat up all the imperials, then swoop in once the tendril has passed and reclaim some of their old tech while finishing off a greatly weakened Imperial presence. Mindlessly murdering the only chance you have to survive/free human shields is a very poor tactical choice, and guys like Anrakyr are supposed to be super intelligent beings with eons of experience in warfare, who has a track record of treating his opponents honorably if they showed him the proper respect.

Still, the first thing to do was to fix the glitch in the Tesla mechanic, and somehow the past years of tesla snap firing gave game developers the idea that even without it Tesla would still be too powerful.
Maybe they were wrong. We'll see.

What do you mean maybe. On immortals it is way better to not take tesla . AB went from good unit to meh.

I refuse to adjust and want to play every game the same way for all time.

/Sarcasm

Can't wait for the new codex. Things that got "nerfed"/changed won't bother my army too much. Quite a few things are better or had the rules more simplified.

I'm on the fence about Wraiths - Think I would prefer the 3++ over 4++ and +1T but that will have to be something I play test.

The elites slot is looking a lot better now with things I am going to proxy and play test now.

I'll still probably play my list as a large Phalanx with hordes of warriors and Immortals.

AB went from a must-have to a good unit.

I'm extremely happy with the new Codex.
I can understand that people with 4 NS's, 12 Wraiths and 3 AB's are less happy.
Though they might still be happy because Wraiths got buffed and only pay 5 points more for it.

Overall I think the new Codex is stronger, you just have to play a different list.

I think the Necron players who are going to be upset are the ones who:

1- Relied on MSS somehow being the only viable Defense in CC. I'm seeing a fair amount of Cron players who already treated it as a meh item and the loss isn't that big of a deal. Yes you're going to see some Cron players whine over it, but I don't think you're going to see very many.

2- Abused CCBs knowing, and even being warned, that it wasn't going to stay that way. Still these players went out and bought the Kit, built the CCBs, then acted like it was the only way to remain competitive.

3- Spammed ABs or Cron Air. These are still going to be around, but they're going to pay for it., while remaining fairly less effective with the changes to Tesla. I never felt that either of these were 'must haves' and did just fine W/o them.

4- Those that were dependent on the variety of Cryptek shenanigans to do the bulk of the work. DnD squads and Stormtek Spam are two of the ones that come to mind. If you never learned to play w/o these, then yeah you're probably going to hate the New Dex.

So far from what we've seen, Warriors remain one of the best units in the Codex, and even THEY got better. We have SEVERAL CC options to fit different army lists, player preferences, and local Metas. Most of the Core mechanics are still there even if the roles have changed, and you have to get the unit that now does what you want.

Give it a chance. I'm sure we're going to have some Netlists up soon anyways.

The Tesla / Gauss Blaster dilemma was relevant in 5th edition when you had to choose between AP4 and 2 shot rapid fire, or move and still shoot once upto 24" and 2 extra shots on every 6 to wound with the added benefit of being able to assault after shooting.

Tesla won by a small margin.

When 6th edition released and the Gauss Blaster was now also able to move and still shoot once upto max range, suddenly the Tesla wasnt so good anymore. Especially since staying put and rapid-fire overwatch was arguably the same, if not better than shooting and charging a squad.

The new edition removes tesla snapfires and settles the debate in favor of the gauss blasters, if it wasnt settled already.

partninja wrote:
I refuse to adjust and want to play every game the same way for all time.

/Sarcasm

Can't wait for the new codex. Things that got "nerfed"/changed won't bother my army too much. Quite a few things are better or had the rules more simplified.

I'm on the fence about Wraiths - Think I would prefer the 3++ over 4++ and +1T but that will have to be something I play test.

The elites slot is looking a lot better now with things I am going to proxy and play test now.

I'll still probably play my list as a large Phalanx with hordes of warriors and Immortals.

Wraiths are 3++ and +1T

I am just disappointed they didn't buff Tesla some other way, I liked the theme for it as a weapon but it would be hard to justify compared to gauss now, it is just so weak. Thankfully I think I still have the Gauss bits so i should be able to convert mine back to gauss from tesla.

Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

RP got mostly buffed really. True, it's not quite the same as it once was, but it is stronger functioning as a superior FNP

 jreilly89 wrote:
Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

i don't really see the problem with warscythes, they were basically the equivalent of a chain fist with lower strength but at initiative 2 instead of 1.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

Warscythes had to go?
They are still here, just with AP2 instead of 1 and that hardly matters.
RP is actually buffed, so is ResOrb. They just work differently now.

And Tesla didn't need a nerf.
The Tesla-rule didn't work as intended and that made AB's/NS's nearly ignore the drawback from Jinking.
AB's are still okay, though I think the increase to 130 is a bit too high.

Some things I do dislike:
-Loss of Harbingers.
-MSS works with Fear now, everything relevant ignores Fear already. When will GW ever learn that Fear sucks?
-Monoliths are still Ordnance.
-Ghost Ark limited to Warriors only.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

i don't really see the problem with warscythes, they were basically the equivalent of a chain fist with lower strength but at initiative 2 instead of 1.

Swinging at I2 murders Powerfist Terminators

 jreilly89 wrote:
Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

Warscythes are still around, and are STILL the only viable option to take on a warlord, so yeah, nothing was fixed. Also, RP didn't technically get nerfed. Quite the contrary, if you spend your points wisely, you could make whatever unit you want survive most of the game. Heck, they had to get rid of 2+ 3++ saves because it would've been obnoxious with a 4+ FNP rerolling 1s from the formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Overall, the Necron codex looks good. MSS and Warscythes had to go. They were an auto take on every lord. RP getting a Nerf seemed eh, but whatever. Wraiths didn't need a buff but I doubt it will make them OP. I don't know why Tesla got needed. I see the reason, but it never felt that OP.

Overall, I'm excited to play my Necron buddy once he gets the new codex.

Warscythes had to go?
They are still here, just with AP2 instead of 1 and that hardly matters.
RP is actually buffed, so is ResOrb. They just work differently now.

And Tesla didn't need a nerf.
The Tesla-rule didn't work as intended and that made AB's/NS's nearly ignore the drawback from Jinking.
AB's are still okay, though I think the increase to 130 is a bit too high.

Some things I do dislike:
-Loss of Harbingers.
-MSS works with Fear now, everything relevant ignores Fear already. When will GW ever learn that Fear sucks?
-Monoliths are still Ordnance.
-Ghost Ark limited to Warriors only.

Also, Warriors are min squad 10 now, so no putting characters with them right off the bat.

But yes, I agree with these points. The only reason I'd probably use the Monolith now is because A barges aren't worth anything other than being a paperweight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:

Still, the first thing to do was to fix the glitch in the Tesla mechanic, and somehow the past years of tesla snap firing gave game developers the idea that even without it Tesla would still be too powerful.
Maybe they were wrong. We'll see.

Yes, and we've seen how smart the game designers are with all of this Fear going around.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Filch wrote:
You know what, I have nothing personal against you but i think you should sell your necron army. If you are complaining about a dex that is tournament worthy (nightscythe spam) then I think you need to quit. You can use that money to buy a new army or restart a new necron army.

My grief, good sir, is not that Necrons are bad. If anything, they got better in a lot of areas, and their playstyle shifted. This is fine, and to be expected with a new codex. I don't give two gaks about competitive play in a game that is so widely unbalanced, even though Necrons weren't the best army out there. My grief is mostly with the fact that they managed to take away even more flavor from an already flavorless army IMO. Hence my disinterest with the book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
That's a typical reaction to changes. Panic.

This is why I don't come to this forum anymore. You guys are missing the point.

krodarklorr wrote:


My grief, good sir, is not that Necrons are bad. If anything, they got better in a lot of areas, and their playstyle shifted. This is fine, and to be expected with a new codex. I don't give two gaks about competitive play in a game that is so widely unbalanced, even though Necrons weren't the best army out there. My grief is mostly with the fact that they managed to take away even more flavor from an already flavorless army IMO. Hence my disinterest with the book.

So basically you object to the changes for thematic and fluff reasons?

You really should have clarified this in the first post and listed what you did & didn't like. Since it was vague, naturally people just jumped in to point out all of the positive changes to RP and formations and what not.

I've been playing Necrons since the black codex - what 4th ed or 5th Ed. I loved the last codex and - I don't think this one is that much different from it.

Crypteks are still in the army - although I will grant you they lost some of their diversity. It felt like they didn't want to make a multipart plastic kit for them so they just made them more generic. I'll miss that aspect.

All other changes have either been "no change" or "positive" IMO. Honestly what else did they lose? Nothing really. All the units are still there... most of the same powers...
Other than Crypteks I can't think of one change that resulted in loss of flavor... certainly not enough to quit the entire game over. Can you list the ones you dislike?

 King Pariah wrote:

partninja wrote:
I refuse to adjust and want to play every game the same way for all time.

/Sarcasm

Can't wait for the new codex. Things that got "nerfed"/changed won't bother my army too much. Quite a few things are better or had the rules more simplified.

I'm on the fence about Wraiths - Think I would prefer the 3++ over 4++ and +1T but that will have to be something I play test.

The elites slot is looking a lot better now with things I am going to proxy and play test now.

I'll still probably play my list as a large Phalanx with hordes of warriors and Immortals.

Wraiths are 3++ and +1T

Phase Shifters are 4++ now. Previously this is what Wraiths had. Unless they get a new piece of wargear that gives them 3++ and I missed it?

With the nerf to tesla it made the AB pretty much useless. The only killing power/ survivability it had was the ability to jink and still be able to cause wounds. Now with the fact that tesla doesnt add extra for snapshots. What is the point in taking AB anymore, fluff wise or it you like it that is a completely different animal. But competitively it has no use.

Don't jink - take the hits and fire as normal. Heal the HP with living armor. If you are taking a lot of fire, then Jink.

Don't like either of these competitively? Switch to the other flavor of the month competitive army.

If quantum shielding works the same as 5th then fine take the hit, get penned, then you have a gunboat that is armor 11 all around, with a 24" range gun. Which means it will die and die quick.

partninja wrote:
Don't jink - take the hits and fire as normal. Heal the HP with living armor. If you are taking a lot of fire, then Jink.

Don't like either of these competitively? Switch to the other flavor of the month competitive army.

Living Metal only does that to Heavy or Super Heavy vehicles.