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I had my 3rd game against new Wraithwing, this was using Daemons and both me and my opponent had a lot of fun playing against one another.

My List was as Follows

GUO - ML3, 2xGreater Rewards 1xLesser Reward - 280

Pink Horrors x 11 - 99
Pink Horrors x 11 - 99

Plague Drones x 6 - Plague Banner, Plague Bringe, Greater Reward on Plague Bringer, Venom Sting - 347

Daemon Prince of Nurgle - ML3, Daemonic Flight, Wings, 2 x Greater Rewards - 335

Daemon Prince of Nurgle - ML3, Daemonic Flight, Wings, 2 x Greater Rewards - 335


His list was

Anrakyr
2 x 10 Warriors inside Ghost Arks
Monoliths
2 Formations of Canoptek Harvests for a total of 12 Wraiths, 2 Spyders and 13 Scarabs.

This was a 1500 point game.


I won the roll off and chose to go second. Deployment was Vanguard Strike and he deployed his Wraiths up front as far as possible. I deployed my Horrors behind cover to fully LoS them from anything within 12". My Daemon Princes Hide behind large rock formations and are no more than 8" away from my Table corner. GUO is center at ~9" from my back Corner and behind a Forest Line and Plague Drones are off to the left of my corner on the front line of 12" I roll for my Psychic Disciplines.

Horrors Squad 1 = Incursion and Primaris Power
Horrors Squad 2 = Dark Flame and Primaris Power

GUO = Life Leech, Enfeeble and Endurance. (Not too bad, happy to see Enfeeble) and ofc Primaris for generating all from 1 discipline.

DP 1 = Dominate, Invisibility and Hallucination, Primaris
DP 2 = Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Life Leech, Primaris

Things were looking good for me from the random generator God. I took a Balesword on each DP and rolled for their remaining Greater Gifts along with my GUO

GUO had Demonic Resilience & Dark Blessing then took a plague Flail from Lesser Rewards.

Daemon Prince 1 got Corpulence
Daemon Prince 2 got Touch of Uncreation.

Turn 1

So first turn was largely uneventful. His groups of Wraith move up ~10" to keep within Range of his Spyders and his Scarabs follow suit making a Wall for cover. He has moved up to the ~22" mark leaving my Closest Daemon Prince only a measly 32" away at most. He ends his turn having fired no shots as he has no vision of any of my units.

My Turn 1, I move my Daemon Prince 1 Back and Over to my Left 12" making a 36" buffer to the closest Wraith. My Daemon Prince 2 moves up 6" to place himself inside a Forest and is 26" away from the Closest Wraith unit.

Psychic Phases begins and I roll for WC and get a 5 for a total of 18 WC. My Pink Horror squad #2 manifest Summoning on 5 Dice and succeed and I deep Strike 5 Hounds quite close to my GUO but luckily dont mishap. My Pink Horror squad #1 Use 6 Dice to cast Incursion and my opponent tries to Deny, fails and I spawn 3 Plague Drones with Banner and Plague Ridden safely. I end my turn with +5 Hounds and 3 Plague Drones more than I started with *virtual Thumbs up!*

Turn 2

The Monolith doesnt come in! My Opponent rushes forward another 10" Spyder behind but the scarabs peel off and capture an objective, the other group does the same with scarabs coming close to but not capturing a second objective. The Ghost Arks move up and pass some Dangerous Terrain Tests they are 32" away from my main Squad of Plague Drones and have visibility but not weapon range. They Disembark near the center Objective and capture it 20 man strong with Ghost Arks blocking LoS to most Warriors for a Beefy Cover Save and Charge Block. My opponent Ends his turn. His 2 Squads of Wraiths accompanied close behind by Spyders are now just 16" away from my Daemon Prince #2 and quite close to my Plague Drones.

My Turn 2 starts with my Moving my Daemon Prince #1 towards the enemy Wraiths and Spyder unit closest to him, at his max 12" leaving just a measly 4" for a charge but my opponent isn't worried and actually scoffs at my placements. I then Move my Plague Drones closer and very Near bubble Wrap his unit 1 for 1 on placement with the Drones. My Daemon Prince #1 moves slightly close and putting himself within 12" of Daemon Prince 2. My Great Fat Bastard moves up his hilarious 6" and puts himself within range of most of his abilities. Psychic Phase begins.

I roll a 2 for WC :( with my 15 WCs I roll for summoning from my Pink Horrors and my Opponents doesnt Deny it. I place 5 more Hounds of the field and they arrive Safely, my other Pink Horrors attempt to summon more Plague Drones but perils and on my Perils of the Warp I roll a 6. (we laugh about beefy Pink Horrors and) I summon 3 More Plague Drones but they mishap and get placed into ongoing reserves. I now have 5 Dice left to cast my other abilities and decide to take a few chances. I cast Enfeeble on the Wraiths and succeed on 2 Dice (Thank god) leaving me with 3 dice left, I use my last 3 to attempt to cast Invisibility on my Plague Drones, viola! It goes off!

Assault Phase. I charge in with my Plague Drones into the Wraiths. I make it in easily with an 7" charge and happily pull in the Wraiths for a nice big group hug. My Daemon Prince Charges into the Spyder and manages to get in.

I roll for my Attacks against the Spyder first and ID it on 2 wounds. The Spyder keels over and my Opponent asks If I had planned on doing that from the begining with ID spam, I tell him "It wasn't really planned, but it was something I was prepared for due to both the Plague Drones AND my DPs having ID weapons" he actually gave me a look, asked politely "The drones have ID weapons?" I said "Yes, they substitute 1 of their attacks for singular Venom Sting Attacks that have ID" He says "Well crap, hopefully they cant hit me" I chuckle knowing he's probably right since they ARE WS 3.

Battle begins with the Wraiths. They strike first against my Drones dishing out 18 attacks and hit with only 4 then wounds me twice on 2 Rending wounds. I roll my Saves and fail 1. My Drones fight back. I roll my Plague Bringer with his Balesword first. I roll 5 attacks and hit with 3. I wound with 2 because of Enfeeble dropping their T to 4. I then Roll for my other attacks. I choose to roll for Venom Sting and roll 5 attacks and hit with 4. I then wound with 2 and he has 4 3++ to make. He fails 2 and the RPs nothing. Combat ended Turn 3 Rolls around. The remaining attacks form the Drones push a further 6 wounds which he saves promptly. :(

Turn 3

The monolith scatters onto a ruin and mishaps into the warp :( My Opponent Charges in with his other 6 Wraith into my Daemon Prince of Nurgle who just mulched the Spyder and succeed easily. they are locked. The second Spyder maneuvers in and gets as far, but close to combat as possible for safety. The attacks ensue with Warriors and Scarabs holding a total of 3 Objectives. The Daemon Prince of Nurgle Strikes first against the Wraith. I deal 3 ID wounds and he saves just 1. He loses 2 Wraith before he gets to strike back. He hits with just 9 attacks and wounds on 4 with 1 rend. I roll my Invulns. Fail the Rending wound, fail 2 more 5++ and manage to survive with 1 wound left. The Drones Fight with the Remaining Wraiths from before. 4 Wraith attempt to hit me and fail with only 1 hit. They fail to Wound (Hurray for invisibility!) I attack back and use Venom Sting again with 1 attack from each member of the unit. The Bringer goes first once again and hits with 2 attacks wounds with 1. The rest of the squad attacks with 12 attacks
6 attacks put aside for Venom Sting, of the 12 I hit with 5 and wound with 3, the venom sting attacks hit with 3 and wound with 2. He has 6 saves to make. He fails 4 but RPs 2 and 2 Wraith go down again.

My turn, I move my GUO to close distance between himself and the Spyder. Its still far away for him, but the other Daemon Prince is close enough to move in and get a decent charge to tie it up. forgot about my Plague Drones in reserve and my opponent graciously lets me bring them in and they Deep Strike behind some ruins near objective 5 next to his 20 some odd Warriors. I move my other Plague Drones up and they join Combat with the 6 Wraiths and Daemon Prince. The Flesh Hounds move towards center Board and cover a lot of ground moving towards the 20 Warriors as well.

Psychic Phase begins. I roll a 4 with 17 WC dice I use 5 to summon 3 more Plague Drones and my opponent attempts to deny it, fails and I use another 5 to summon 5 more flesh hounds but perils again. they lose a member of the squad and forget how to use Dark Flame? Ooookay. Hah. The GUO Casts Enfeeble on the 4 Wraith in combat with the Daemon Prince and 3 Drones. I use my last two dice to no avail at invisibility. I proceed with attacks in both Assaults and wipe the squads with poor rolls not worth mentioning.

My Second Daemon Prince attacked the second Spyder and IDd it again with his Balesword.

The rest of the game which I wont bother going turn by turn into was me pushing forward and summoning more Hounds. I ended up losing in total 6 Drones from small squads with 4 remaining from my main squad, hilariously due to Life Leech my Daemon Prince made it back up to Full Wounds at the end of the match and pushed warriors and Ghost Arks off objectives. I won the match near the end of turn 6 when my Opponent conceded with only a few scarabs and 1 ghost ark left. He almost forgot he had even taken an HQ choice since he had him sitting in the back capturing 1 objective all game. To be honest, even I had forgotten all game he was even there.

It was a fun match and I had a blast. This was my 3rd game now against New Crons.

I am sure you math types can hammer it out but point for point What about Devourer Guants for Tyranids?

kellymatthew37 wrote:
I am sure you math types can hammer it out but point for point What about Devourer Guants for Tyranids?

What do they do again exactly?

They are the ones that get like three shots each for ten points
assault 3 for like 8 points each only strength three though. At BS Three, so I don't know maybe not. I just like to dump buckets of dice for the momentary glimmer of hope.

Well Whats the gun stats?

Assault three strength four range 18

Then you would need 36 shots at Bs3 to get 18 hits to deal 6 wounds that they will fail 2.
54 shots with regular reanimation protocal
72 shots for 4+++

So all that is to just kill 1 full wraith.
good luck

 Red Corsair wrote:
He was talking about the rest of their infantry actually, which definitely is the most efficient way to kill them.

19 pages yet still nobody has actually posted an 1850 Necron list spamming these wraiths. Wraiths are more durable, yet no more killy then they were a month ago when they had access to double the firepower at least for support. Why all of a sudden are wraiths a problem again? My marines didn't have an issue beating them on missions before and they didn't have the means to efficiently kill T4 wraiths then. All I see is a distinct lack of MSS and a warscythe, the two things they leaned on in order to scare away units like wraith knights.

If you want 4+++ wraiths you need a decurion which has massive limitations on what you can take in support, want tesla barges? Sorry, you need two and a DDarc, only 400pts. Gone are the days of old where 3 AB's only set you back a measly 270 and had better firepower.

This discussion is just going in circles where someone posts a unit that can hold them up or kill a few, and some smart ass just says "But not in a decurion, or better yet with cryptek support!" Yea, now find me points.

Decrurions, harvests, D-lords and crypteks are all going to add up so incredibly fast I'd be impressed if you crammed 18 actual wraiths in and didn't leave something naked and useless.

This is everything I was going to type myself! top work spot on.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635241.page

There's a 2k list using 3 harvests in a more msu fashion, as support for the rest of the army and general enemy disruption, rather than the Killy part of the force. I believe they make more sense to run this way. I don't think the harvest wraith units benefit much by having more models.

niv-mizzet wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635241.page

There's a 2k list using 3 harvests in a more msu fashion, as support for the rest of the army and general enemy disruption, rather than the Killy part of the force. I believe they make more sense to run this way. I don't think the harvest wraith units benefit much by having more models.

Re-posting your list here:

Decurion

Rec legion
Overlord with staff of light and veil of darkness
2 10 man warrior squads
1 5 man immortal squad
1 3 man tomb blade squad with n scopes
10 lychguard w/ warscythes

Canoptek harvest x 3
Spyder, 3 wraiths, and 3 scarabs each

Destroyer cult
Destroyer lord with solar staff, res orb, phylactery, and phase shifter as warlord
3 units of 3 destroyers

So first off, this is 2K. Try and make a list at 1850.
Secondly, you proved my point rather well. All your reclamation legion units are minimum with no transport and you only managed 9 of these killer wraiths at 2k even.

On top of all that you only have 9 destroyers worth of ranged threat... Again, at 2k.
Scariest unit hilariously enough is the lychguard and not the wraiths.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So first off, this is 2K. Try and make a list at 1850.
Secondly, you proved my point rather well. All your reclamation legion units are minimum with no transport and you only managed 9 of these killer wraiths at 2k even.

On top of all that you only have 9 destroyers worth of ranged threat... Again, at 2k.
Scariest unit hilariously enough is the lychguard and not the wraiths.

Completely agree. Compare a 5 man unit of sword and board Lychguard + Orikan (225 points) to a unit of 5 x Wraiths + Spyder + scarabs (310 points).

I'm not sure what to do with the over lord in a decurion wraith list.

After the reclamation legion and wraith units are purchased the list is out of points for mech so a command barge would be the only av13 target on the board.

Without the barge the over lord is slow and stuck inside warrior , immortal, scarab, or wraith units. The advantage of doing so is t4 t5 target saturation with absolutely no AV targets on the field.

With the barge the over lord has speed but he is the only AV target on the field for all of an opponent's anti tank weapons. Also the flesh bane relic war scythe needs to be hidden inside a unit to take down wraith knights. I don't trust a 4+ involved and -1 to rp when the s10 instant death wraith knight swings hit.

This is a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I'm leaning towards a foot deployment and including flayed ones to add the possibility of out flanking with the over lord.

Well I have again drawn the conclusion that Wraiths are not overpowered, but boring.

It is not hard to tie them up for the whole game or a significant part of it, thereby removing them from the game effectively. This also removes the unit that is tying them up from the game. Meaning you both might as well have not taken those units.

Move to location, stay in that location for the whole game. Boring.

As for tactics, it's pretty clear that "shoot the Spyder" (and there is only 1, dammit) is the winning strategy for the CH. Without RP in play they are not _that_ durable. (taking 18 bolter hits to down one).

Alcibiades wrote:
Well I have again drawn the conclusion that Wraiths are not overpowered, but boring.

It is not hard to tie them up for the whole game or a significant part of it, thereby removing them from the game effectively. This also removes the unit that is tying them up from the game. Meaning you both might as well have not taken those units.

Move to location, stay in that location for the whole game. Boring.

As for tactics, it's pretty clear that "shoot the Spyder" (and there is only 1, dammit) is the winning strategy for the CH. Without RP in play they are not _that_ durable. (taking 18 bolter hits to down one).

Spiders are a great unit. They can also use rp to negate wounds from creating scarabs, and they can make them at any point in the movement phase.. Seems to me there should be at least 2 spiders for every group of wraiths.

NewCrons (1849pts)
Necrons: Codex (2015) (Decurion Detachment)
Core
Reclamation Legion
Catacomb Command Barge, Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter, Warscythe
Immortals
5x Immortal
Tomb Blades
3 x Tomb Blade, Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Gauss Blasters

Warriors
10x Necron Warrior
Warriors
10x Necron Warrior
Auxiliary
Canoptek Harvest
Canoptek Scarabs
3x Canoptek Scarab
Canoptek Spyder
6 x Canoptek Wraith, Whip Coils

Conclave of the Burning One
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Cryptek, Staff of Light, The God Shackle
Cryptek, Staff of Light, The Veil of Darkness


Necrons: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ
Destroyer Lord, Phase Shifter, The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Orikan the Diviner
5x Immortal
5x Immortal


This list is more indicative of the kind of stuff you can face with Necrons. This list has got a wraithstar led by a D Lord, a bargeLord, a Nightbringer Conclave that will deepstrike into your backfield, and Orikan for serious heavy duty brutality. As long as I force the matchups I want I will win.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spiders are a great unit. They can also use rp to negate wounds from creating scarabs, and they can make them at any point in the movement phase.. Seems to me there should be at least 2 spiders for every group of wraiths.

That they are a great unit is specifically why there should be only 1 for each group of Wraiths. Otherwise the formation becomes completely unmanageable.

Alcibiades wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spiders are a great unit. They can also use rp to negate wounds from creating scarabs, and they can make them at any point in the movement phase.. Seems to me there should be at least 2 spiders for every group of wraiths.

That they are a great unit is specifically why there should be only 1 for each group of Wraiths. Otherwise the formation becomes completely unmanageable.

8 models is hardly an unmanageable formation.

Goes up to 11 with the scarabs. Still not an unmanageable formation. Try running a 45 blob of conscripts screening 20 guardsmen and a pcs.

I think players are thinking about the wrong things when it comes to wraiths. We are trying to find units in our codex that can single handily take them out and we are getting upset because there are few. Also realize that the burden of taking on wraiths is not placed on one unit but an entire army. Unit selection is pivotal in 40k but tactics is more important and this is especially true with wraiths. Several players have already mentioned the most effective tactic which is to either tie them up or take them out with str 10 or D attacks.

All of your energy should go into figuring out how your army can handle his army not just his wraiths. Tieing them up with 2+ saves such as terminators is an option, large bike squads(4's to hit 3's to wound usually mean 6 saves), blob squads, or you can attempt to kill them with thunderwolves, hammerhead str 10 thunderhammers, dreadknights, wraithcannons, wraithknights, and warboss powerclaws. Their damage output is low so its not like the unit dishes out alot of damage.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spiders are a great unit. They can also use rp to negate wounds from creating scarabs, and they can make them at any point in the movement phase.. Seems to me there should be at least 2 spiders for every group of wraiths.

That they are a great unit is specifically why there should be only 1 for each group of Wraiths. Otherwise the formation becomes completely unmanageable.

8 models is hardly an unmanageable formation.

Goes up to 11 with the scarabs. Still not an unmanageable formation. Try running a 45 blob of conscripts screening 20 guardsmen and a pcs.

I mean unmanageable by the enemy. It's too good.

 Red Corsair wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635241.page

There's a 2k list using 3 harvests in a more msu fashion, as support for the rest of the army and general enemy disruption, rather than the Killy part of the force. I believe they make more sense to run this way. I don't think the harvest wraith units benefit much by having more models.

Re-posting your list here:

Decurion

Rec legion
Overlord with staff of light and veil of darkness
2 10 man warrior squads
1 5 man immortal squad
1 3 man tomb blade squad with n scopes
10 lychguard w/ warscythes

Canoptek harvest x 3
Spyder, 3 wraiths, and 3 scarabs each

Destroyer cult
Destroyer lord with solar staff, res orb, phylactery, and phase shifter as warlord
3 units of 3 destroyers

So first off, this is 2K. Try and make a list at 1850.
Secondly, you proved my point rather well. All your reclamation legion units are minimum with no transport and you only managed 9 of these killer wraiths at 2k even.

On top of all that you only have 9 destroyers worth of ranged threat... Again, at 2k.
Scariest unit hilariously enough is the lychguard and not the wraiths.

The wraiths aren't "killer" is the issue. They can take punishment, they're fast, they can theoretically threaten anything even if their damage output isn't actually that high, they're fearless, they can tarpit shockingly well for so few models, they have a tiny footprint, they ignore terrain... With 3 units of 3, I can (and did twice now) use them to dictate parts of the game. Units that I don't like running free? They're bogged down in wraith from turn 3 til game end. I leave the rec legion without any gear because I don't WANT any gear on them. With their own 4++ RP, they make a great steady shooting advance that doesn't die to the return fire. We play objective games here. I want some foot troops to hold the ones on my table half so the destroyers, canopteks and lychee can go wild. If I DID give them transports, I would be undermining the list's toughness saturation. As it is, any anti-vehicle or tank hunting weapons are just trying to hurt one model that gets at least an RP roll.

People seem to keep misunderstanding that wraiths aren't god units in that they win the game by themselves. They're god units in that they make the rest of your army have a hilariously easy time winning because of how good they are at doing support jobs.

 CKO wrote:
I think players are thinking about the wrong things when it comes to wraiths. We are trying to find units in our codex that can single handily take them out and we are getting upset because there are few. Also realize that the burden of taking on wraiths is not placed on one unit but an entire army. Unit selection is pivotal in 40k but tactics is more important and this is especially true with wraiths. Several players have already mentioned the most effective tactic which is to either tie them up or take them out with str 10 or D attacks.

All of your energy should go into figuring out how your army can handle his army not just his wraiths. Tieing them up with 2+ saves such as terminators is an option, large bike squads(4's to hit 3's to wound usually mean 6 saves), blob squads, or you can attempt to kill them with thunderwolves, hammerhead str 10 thunderhammers, dreadknights, wraithcannons, wraithknights, and warboss powerclaws. Their damage output is low so its not like the unit dishes out alot of damage.

Thats true,

Recently played a test game against a Necron List with: Teleporting Lord, cryptek with "big blind staff", 2x wraiths,1 spider, 3 scarabs, 2x scythe with 5 immortals, 2x8 tomb blades, 2x2 heavy destroyers
I used a list with 3x flying hive tyrant devourer + Allies: Daemon Fateweaver, 2x horrors and Daemon Prince.

Without the old "tesla snap shot" shots its very hard for Necron to kill those FMC's. I got first turn and moved all these FMC forward to kill that spider first. I specially reserved that Fateweaver D6 reroll in case theirs a slight chance a FMC would get a wound and crash down. I only used 2 warp dice for those 1 warp charge powers to try to kill of that spider to make sure I get no perils. Yes, those wraiths got great board control but I controlled the SKY!
(BTW: a simple "terrify" or "horror" power could block a 8x tomb blade unit, easily.)

Alcibiades wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Spiders are a great unit. They can also use rp to negate wounds from creating scarabs, and they can make them at any point in the movement phase.. Seems to me there should be at least 2 spiders for every group of wraiths.

That they are a great unit is specifically why there should be only 1 for each group of Wraiths. Otherwise the formation becomes completely unmanageable.

8 models is hardly an unmanageable formation.

Goes up to 11 with the scarabs. Still not an unmanageable formation. Try running a 45 blob of conscripts screening 20 guardsmen and a pcs.

I mean unmanageable by the enemy. It's too good.

I see your point. A ruthless tier 1 list is not FLGS appropriate.

Why are Wraiths seen as not killy?

One of the hardest hitting units in the OP Eldar dex short of an MC, is a Shining Spear.

Shining Spears cost a little more than half a Wraith.
They have 1 attack, s6ap3 on the charge, otherwise s3ap-.
Wraiths have *3* s6 rending. That's much better than twice as good.

So, if I have 3 enemy units killing anything they want of mine by turn 3, and taking one round for most things, two rounds for bigger units, I have to beat the rest of the Necron list with the remainder, and that'll be the least threatening parts of my army.

So, optimal is MSU, every unit being about equal? So I have about 500 points out of 1850 to face over 1000 points of necrons? I'm sorry, I don't think it really matters how they spend those 1000 points.

.......no one I know runs shining spears competatively.....

Shining spears dont hit hard at all for their points, nothing in the eldar book is really comparable to wraiths.

Most competitive melee outside MCs/HQs would be Scorpions, right?

2xs4ap- for 1/3 the price?
Vs 3xS6 Rending? Wraiths hit much harder per point.
Wraiths move much further per round
Wraiths are absurdly more durable (1w t3 3+ vs 2w t*5* 3*++*).

Point remains the same. Wraiths are hard hitters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's my point. The 'tarpit' outright kills things faster than most CC units. While being faster. And more durable.

Anything without Fearless or other shenanigans and lots of wounds simply can't tarpit them. So, if nothing can slow them down, and nothing can kill them, they can kill what they want when they want. The only counter play for some armies is just assuming you lose one unit a turn to them. And hope the remainder can stop the bulk of the enemy army.

Bharring wrote:
Why are Wraiths seen as not killy?
.

They're not. 3 assault marines (about the same cost as a Wraith with WCs, I think?) have more damage output on the charge against MEQ than a Wraith does.

Behold!

3 pistol shots = 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/9 x 3 = 1/3 .33
3 hammer of wrath = 1/2 x 1/3 x = 1/6 x 3 = 1/2 .5
9 CC attacks = 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12 x 9 = 3/4 .75

total a little over 1.5

vs

rending part of attacks = 1/2 x 1/6 = 1/12 x 4 = 1/3
other part of attacks = 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 2/9 x 4 = 8/9

total about 1.25

albeit the wraith will go earlier

So best case ASM assaulting MEQ outdoes Wraiths by a whole 20%? ( (6/4)/(5/4) = (6/5) )

Against anything t5+, Wraiths start to pull ahead.
Against anything 2+, Wraiths destroy.
Against anything I4, Wraiths strike first.

In the second round - and later - Wraiths out DPS ASM:
Wraiths get (3/4) of their initial (5/4), so (15/16ths). Not amazing.
ASM get 2/3rds of their 9 attacks, so (2/3)(3/4), or (1/2).

After the first round of combat, assuming both are unhurt, a Wraith does nearly double 3xASM damage to MEQs, where 3xASM cost more.

So, best case, a relatively paper assault unit with worse mobility can edge out Wraiths in the first round of combat, but get destroyed afterwords.

So, again, Wraith damage outshines most CC units. In some circumstances they can pull head (assaulting grots!), but its quite clear Wraiths are, by large, simply more killy.

Bharring wrote:
So best case ASM assaulting MEQ outdoes Wraiths by a whole 20%? ( (6/4)/(5/4) = (6/5) )

Against anything t5+, Wraiths start to pull ahead.
Against anything 2+, Wraiths destroy.
Against anything I4, Wraiths strike first.

In the second round - and later - Wraiths out DPS ASM:
Wraiths get (3/4) of their initial (5/4), so (15/16ths). Not amazing.
ASM get 2/3rds of their 9 attacks, so (2/3)(3/4), or (1/2).

After the first round of combat, assuming both are unhurt, a Wraith does nearly double 3xASM damage to MEQs, where 3xASM cost more.

So, best case, a relatively paper assault unit with worse mobility can edge out Wraiths in the first round of combat, but get destroyed afterwords.

Which does not change that wraiths are not very killy. Assault marines aren't either, as you correctly note, which is why I used them as an example.

Killy is, say, equivalent points worth of Meganobs, Triarch Praetorians, Flayed Ones (brr), or TH/SS Terminators.

Wraith vs. MEQ = .583 wounds
Meganob vs. MEQ = 1.25
1 (28 points) Praetorian with Rod = 0.667
3 Flayed Ones = 1.5
4 Bloodletters = 1.33

Are Wraiths killy compared to a DC squad with a couple of power fists? Or some sanguinary guard? I don't think so. Relying on rending to punch through armor is very meh.

The people describing them as the ultimate tarpit have the right of it. They will beat down troop choices and shooting units and tarpit everything else Very solid, yes. Broken? We'll see.

They're not superkilly, no. But they can tear anything with average durability - like most infantry or most vehicles - apart easily. They hit too hard to be considered just a tarpit. And, against most targets, are ready to rip something else up next turn.

The super killy things - Wraithlords, meganobz, Termies, etc - still die far too quickly at the hands of Wraiths. And Wraiths don't die too quickly to them at all. And are cheaper.

So they hard counter those killy units. Some of them even take wraiths a while to chew through. Which would make sense, if that were their role.

The problem is, Wraiths hard counter everything else, too. And have the mobility to pick their targets. So, they win big if they hold TH/SS Termies for a while before killing them, but they win bigger by attacking anything else.

For most armies, there just isn't a counter, and MSU tarpitting doesn't work, because (1) even most MSU is still too expensive, (2) Wraiths can pick their target with their mobility, and (3), Wraiths are too killy, so countercharging them is unlikely to hold them.