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 Big Blind Bill wrote:

TompiQ wrote:
Okay, someone has to do it... How about this for a 1000pts list?

CANOPTEK FILTH

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60ptsy
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60pts
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60pts
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Total 975pts

Pretty friendly at 1k, don't you think?

This isn't a battleforged list though, and unbound is never usually friendly lol.

Why isnt it battleforged?

Destroyer Cult Heavy Destroyers and Judicator Battalion HGC/heat ray Stalkers also look to be a good choice, albeit expensive. I wouldn't advise these options unless you were already planning to take the formations anyway, though (because of how expensive they are).

The Decurion formation also makes Flayed Ones one of the best CC units in the game weighing in at 13 points am model with a 4+ , 4++, that's crazy.

They're basically super daemons. Sure they don't have rending or anything like that but still the volume of attacks and rerolling wounds is just incredible.

Stalkers and Heavy Destroyers seem made for each other. Put a TL Heavy Gauss Cannon on the Stalker, stick it in a ruin with a unit of 3 Heavy Destroyers and enjoy 4 highly accurate lascannons on pretty durable frames.

If the HDs are part of a Cult they're even more effective.

So, I'd like to ask two things that need clarification for myself.

1. What's the point of the Edge of Eternity's Executioner "(2+)" rule? How does that affect PS if at all?
2. Can one take the Decurion formations in a Mephrit Detachment by themselves, with the bonus rules? Is there some subtlety that I'm missing?

 Victory wrote:
So, I'd like to ask two things that need clarification for myself.

1. What's the point of the Edge of Eternity's Executioner "(2+)" rule? How does that affect PS if at all?
2. Can one take the Decurion formations in a Mephrit Detachment by themselves, with the bonus rules? Is there some subtlety that I'm missing?

1. RAW, it has no effect (yay GW rules-writing). RAI, however, it allows the model using it to activate the PS special rule on a To Hit roll of a 2+.
2. You can take the 'Decurion' formations with a Mephrit Detachment, however the (decurion) formations won't be able to take Mephrit relics (and unless the formations is actually a part of a Decurion Detachment they won't get the Ever-living Command Benefit)

Thanks. That about answers it. That Edge of Eternity still needs a FAQ. I'm not sure if that was really the RAI or not. Was there consensus reached on this?

 Byte wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

TompiQ wrote:
Okay, someone has to do it... How about this for a 1000pts list?

CANOPTEK FILTH

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60ptsy
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60pts
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Canpotek Swarm
- 5 Wraiths w. Whip Coils 258pts
-3 Scarabs 60pts
- Spyder 50pts
325pts

Total 975pts

Pretty friendly at 1k, don't you think?

This isn't a battleforged list though, and unbound is never usually friendly lol.

Why isnt it battleforged?

I thought you had to stick to the decurion detachment, requiring at least a character and some troops.

Apparently not. It seems even 'battleforged' is letting people take pretty much whatever they want now.

 Victory wrote:
Thanks. That about answers it. That Edge of Eternity still needs a FAQ. I'm not sure if that was really the RAI or not. Was there consensus reached on this?

Sadly I doubt there ever was or will be a consensus. People are too busy arguing wraithflight. That said what else could the 2+ possibly mean? Pretty obvious I think and I doubt anyone around my area would ever argue against it. I also doubt gw will faq such a thing.

I'm thinking about making a YMDC but I think te rules are clear on it. With Zhandrek's "counter tactics" special rule if I take an allied detatchment that are Allies of Convenience or worse and they have any/all of the special rules listed...... does Zhandrek's unit and himself have those rules too? If so looks like Zhandrekh forces his allies to share

Got my first game in vs Dark Eldar the other day.
My list was at 2k points, and was the Decurion.
The Overlord was a bargelord, with Phylactery, Phase Shifter, and Warscythe
2 units of Warriors in Ghost Arks,
1 unit of Tomb Blades, no upgrades
One unit of Immortals footslogging
Judicator Battalion with x6 and x7 Praetorains, al Rods. Heat Ray on the Stalker
Canoptek Harvest, six Wraiths no coils
Living Tomb- Obelisk
The Dark Eldar List was running Dark Eldar Primary, with a lot of venoms, some Reavers, the Grotesqiure formation, the scapal squadron, 2 Razorwings.. and that’s all I can really remember off the top of my head.

I went first and The Obelisk…. It just went to down. The Dark Eldar really had no answer to it, and it ran roughshod over most of the army. He had so many units, 3 of the spheres were firing nearly all the time, and the Obelisk is very fast. It was blowing 3 vehicles up per turn.
The Army didn’t get too much use out of the +1 BS from the stalker, since most everything was in vehicles, The Praetorians did fine though, especially dealing with all the poison. They cleaned up the grots once they were dislodged from their Raiders. This shooting phase was one of the few times I used the Formation bonus, it made a huge difference. Since the Grots didn’t get the charge, they were mitigated a bit, they did get rampage though. It didn't make a huge difference, even with the poison rerolls, and the attacks, going through a 3+ and a 4+ wasn't happening that much. He rolled fleet for his bonus as well, the combat may have gone differently had he rolled something different on that table.
Bargelord did fine, but this was mostly a product of target priority, as the DE player didn't want to pour most of his lance fire into him, and poison would be useless. He wrecked a few things.
Wraiths didn't see that much action, the Scalpel squadron removed the spyder on his first turn, so I only got one turn of the super RP. They cleaned up a few squads here and there.
His Razorwings got pretty much free reign though. I didn't really have any AA, so I will need to consider a Night Scythe in the future.

It honestly, was not that much of a fight, but I think this is more due to the Obelisk, than anything. This was probably the best matchup possible for that unit, so I wouldn’t really take it as indicator for anything.

So, let's talk CCB. I've never really found a use for it as an assault unit, too many things in the game can just instagib the Chariot (Krak/EMP/Melta grenades, MCs, Powerfists, etc), and with MSS gone, that really kills his effectiveness overall. However, he still has quite a good place as a shooting unit - he's very durable against gunfire (2+/4++/5+++ which can be bumped up in the Decurion, or given rerolls with Mephrit), and he baseline has a lot of AP3 shooting. If you forgo the 2+, he can even take the Gauntlet (AP2 template), which he can deliver up front very quickly. Some test loadouts:

Unkillable
Mephrit Dynasty Detachment
CCB
Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb, Phylactery, Solar Thermasite*
270 points

*Added bonus of giving him +1S on his Staff of Light

This 2+/4++ rerollable. 5++ rerolling one phase of the game. IWND across 3 HP and 3W. Hope you roll a 1 for Eternal Warrior Warlord Trait too.

Shooty
Decurion
CCB
Phase Shifter, Gauntlet of the Conflagrator, Tachyon Arrow, Phylactery
230 points

3+/4++/4+++ IWND. Still pretty beefy. Two one-off shooting attacks and a Staff of Light, so he's able to adapt to many shooting situations. Cheaper, too.

Assault Killer
Decurion
CCB
Phase Shifter, Gauntlet of Fire, Phylactery, Void Reaper
215 points

Cheap. 3+/4++/4+++ IWND with a powerful CC Weapon. Threw on the Gauntlet of Fire for good Overwatch and extra toasting of light squads before charging in. Still doesn't have any real way to deal with hidden Powerfists or MCs smashing the Chariot, but it should shred any Infantry or non-Assault specific unit.



Overall, I think Phylactery is a must take on him. IWND on that statline (AV13 3HP, T5 W3 with good saves) is pretty beastly, and for just 15 points? Dang, that's a deal.

Soooo I vote Zhandrekh for a promotion.

Zhandrekh with the warlord trait Target priority + Stalker unit = BS10 for all non-vehicle units in range him and the stalker (and with the stalker's new 1-3 selection that can be pretty far)

How scary is this?

Now think of that with Tomb blades with their ignore cover who just need to be in range of the stalkers if they keep their TL gauss blasters. Or a Destroyer/ Heavy destroyer gun line that pretty much can not miss and have JSJ.

Flyers or drop pods or Deep strike? For flyers have a Tomb blade on a Quad gun and watch those babies burn. Deepstrike just deepstrike your own with Deathmarks(RISKY!!!!!!) and aim to be within the 12" of Zhandrek or 6" of a stalker, now you get to shoot at them with 2+ to hit 2+ to wound

Super Kitted Out Conclave
Conclave of the Burning One
C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Tank Cryptek
Nightmare Shroud, Solar Thermasite, Phase Shifter
Technology Cryptek
God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Solar Staff OR Veil of Darkness
505/515 points

Nightbringer is very good right now, and this formation basically makes him unkillable. Tank Cryptek, all the way. Tank Cryptek sits comfortably at T8 and has a 2+/4++ rerolling 1's, followed by a 4+++. The other Cryptek holds the God Shackle and either the Invisibility stick or the Teleport button. Either way, this unit can take an extreme amount of punishment and then the Nightbringer gets in range to do his thing. Solar Staff is for if you feel ok Footslogging them up the board, Veil of Darkness is for "Hi! Try to deal with 8 T8 wounds that have a 2+ rerollable until you drop the front guy". Throw on a Phylactery onto Tank Cryptek for extra laughs.

I'm leaning towards cheap CCB's.

When they had sweeping attacks, and a 3++ save, and MSS, I wouldn't mind paying the 250ish points for cost for them.

Now however they have lost a fair amount of bite, and I wouldn't want to pay the same cost.

The base cost for a CCB and Overlord with a scythe has come down 25 points, this means that you can get one for only 155 points.

The 2+ save artifact would be the best investment imo, as it lets you put more firepower onto the lord, however its cost is quite steep.

I will be using mine mostly as a an objective grabber/ anti armour/ anti artillery platform, operating mostly in the opponents backline, making the most of its fast skimmer speed.
The barge will be jinking most of the time as it gives the same save as having a phase shifter that also effects the chariot.

Oberron wrote:
I'm thinking about making a YMDC but I think te rules are clear on it. With Zhandrek's "counter tactics" special rule if I take an allied detatchment that are Allies of Convenience or worse and they have any/all of the special rules listed...... does Zhandrek's unit and himself have those rules too? If so looks like Zhandrekh forces his allies to share

This is brilliant. Thank you!

So im thinking of runnig a nightbringer in my semi competitive games. (See you make da call)

Now that is has more or less been established that gaze of death can even be used in cc i want to know for sure if he gets the 2 shooting powers in the shooting phase. In the rumour phase it didnt seem sure wether it would be one or 2 shots. Can anyone give me the answer with an explanation with it as to why it can or can not?

Overall im thinking of running a decurion with living tomb world combo in competitive games. Oh the look of horror when an obelisk and 2 monoliths land at your doorstep and immediately let the infantry into your house.. Im getting shivers of excitement XD

What's everyones view on the Doom sycthe now?

It's quite a bit different. 15 points cheaper, which is not significant, but it not insignificant either.

The real question, is about the new Death Ray.

I wouldn't say it's worse, or better than before, Just different. It's better against AV13+ Targets, and it's still pretty good at anti-infantry duty if you need it.


I'm still not completely sold on it. I think if it was 10 points cheaper, I would probably seriously consider it. The main issue is I'm running the Decurion, so I'd have to take two of them!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
So im thinking of runnig a nightbringer in my semi competitive games. (See you make da call)

Now that is has more or less been established that gaze of death can even be used in cc i want to know for sure if he gets the 2 shooting powers in the shooting phase. In the rumour phase it didnt seem sure wether it would be one or 2 shots. Can anyone give me the answer with an explanation with it as to why it can or can not?

Overall im thinking of running a decurion with living tomb world combo in competitive games. Oh the look of horror when an obelisk and 2 monoliths land at your doorstep and immediately let the infantry into your house.. Im getting shivers of excitement XD

I don't see anyway of allowing you two powers per turn.

MC rule? May fire up to two times?

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
MC rule? May fire up to two times?

You can't fire the same weapon twice.

Houseruling Dark Harvest to work wouldn't be too hard, I've been thinking: Basically the main thing is that you'd have to assume things are to new Codex standard with the following exceptions:

Overlords and Lords: As per codex, but with the option to buy Flensing Scarabs and with the rule for going nuts.

Kutlakh: As is, minus Eternal Warrior.

Toholk: Hardest to cover... I'd replace Aeonstave and Timesplinter Cloak with Staff of Light and Phase Shifter, then give him the new generic Cryptek ability, I guess?

Charnel Lychguard: As Codex, but 5 points more expensive with Rage and option to buy FS. Only one unit may be bought per Overlord or Lord.

Flayed Ones: As Codex, but troops and min size 10.

Warriors and immortals: As codex, with option to buy FS. Immortals cannot be required troops.

Charnel Scarabs: As Codex, but with 5 point per model upgrade option to swap Entropic Strike for Shred and Rend and +1 WS.

Tomb Sentinel: As in IA12, it's Heavy Support for normal Necrons but Fast Attack for Dark Harvest.

As I say, the only tricky one is Toholk.

 Sasori wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
MC rule? May fire up to two times?

You can't fire the same weapon twice.

True that i do know. But are those powers shot from a single weapon? Am i being blind or something? Am i missing something? I do not want to prove or force some belief that it can be done. I just want to know 100% sure

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
MC rule? May fire up to two times?

You can't fire the same weapon twice.

True that i do know. But are those powers shot from a single weapon? Am i being blind or something? Am i missing something? I do not want to prove or force some belief that it can be done. I just want to know 100% sure

Under wargear it lists them as "powers of the c'tan". In the description for powers of the c'tan, it says that the c'tan can use them as a ranged weapon... Which means it's just 1 weapon. So you get 1 power per turn.

I think if the intention was for c'tan to use its power 2 times per turn, then they would have made it more explicit.
I wouldn't try and use it as such unless an FAQ stated otherwise.

On an unrelated note, nobody has pointed out yet that relentless in the reclamation legion formation has great synergy with ghost arks.
Being relentless would allow necron warriors to use their ghost arks as a combat vehicle, whilst still shooting the target in the same turn.

A potential of 40 str 4 attacks from 1 squad in a turn has the chance to cause quite a lot of damage.

Now of course they are not the best cc unit in the world, but with improved RP and the buffs from the formation, they should be more than a match for all non-MEQ units, and be on at least equal footing with most MEQs.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
MC rule? May fire up to two times?

You can't fire the same weapon twice.

True that i do know. But are those powers shot from a single weapon? Am i being blind or something? Am i missing something? I do not want to prove or force some belief that it can be done. I just want to know 100% sure

Under wargear it lists them as "powers of the c'tan". In the description for powers of the c'tan, it says that the c'tan can use them as a ranged weapon... Which means it's just 1 weapon. So you get 1 power per turn.

Clear.! Thanks

The CCB is gonna be beastly in combat. It was only just now I noticed that CC attacks aimed at a chariot roll penetration vs the front armor. I missed that change from 6th.

 BarBoBot wrote:
The CCB is gonna be beastly in combat. It was only just now I noticed that CC attacks aimed at a chariot roll penetration vs the front armor. I missed that change from 6th.

I think it's still pretty good, and a lot cheaper.

For example, if you take it for your reclamation legion Overlord, you get rerolls of 1's on RP too.

So, you can get the Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Phalatery and a War Scythe for 55 points cheaper than the Old loadout. That's not bad at all. If you want to skip the shroud, you can clock it an 195 points.

This gives you a 2+/4++/4++ rerolling 1's. Not too shaby at all!

Requizen wrote:Super Kitted Out Conclave
Conclave of the Burning One
C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Tank Cryptek
Nightmare Shroud, Solar Thermasite, Phase Shifter
Technology Cryptek
God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Solar Staff OR Veil of Darkness
505/515 points

Nightbringer is very good right now, and this formation basically makes him unkillable. Tank Cryptek, all the way. Tank Cryptek sits comfortably at T8 and has a 2+/4++ rerolling 1's, followed by a 4+++. The other Cryptek holds the God Shackle and either the Invisibility stick or the Teleport button. Either way, this unit can take an extreme amount of punishment and then the Nightbringer gets in range to do his thing. Solar Staff is for if you feel ok Footslogging them up the board, Veil of Darkness is for "Hi! Try to deal with 8 T8 wounds that have a 2+ rerollable until you drop the front guy". Throw on a Phylactery onto Tank Cryptek for extra laughs.

That's just so pricey for the limited mobility though. Don't forget that the C'tan terrain interaction doesn't work with the Crypteks. The best IMO way to run it is cheaply, with a mandatory Veil of Darkness on one Cryptek, and maybe a chronometron/Solar Pulse for the Deep Strike turn. I'd put God-shackle (and Thermasite or Shroud) onto a third Cryptek, tucked far away in another unit, as these two will get targeted.

However, I think that the Nightbringer is back in style, just thankfully not so much to be an auto-include. Such utility, such power. His biggest MC rival will be the Wraithknight no doubt, and that's a match up in the air thanks to the mobility of the latter.
And the Knights will be his other arch-nemeses. That's just a one sided curb-stomp on their part.

What do you guys think? Can a Nightbringer successfully claim a Wraithknight versus a competent player? Does he have a chance versus Imp Knights? I dunno.

EDIT: Does the Veil of Darkness confer Deep Strike to the unit? Or just the model? What do you think was intended? Does this need to be in the included FAQ?

Going by my initial reading of the Veil of Darkness, it only confers the "Deep Strike" rule to its bearer. However, it allows an entire unit to relocate once per game using the deep strike rules, which bypasses the unit's need to have the Deep Strike rule for that purpose.

I could see a conclave of the burning one teleporting a Nightbringer shard across the table on turn 1, then popping a solar staff on the enemy turn to keep it from being shot to death. Seems pretty legit. Imperial knights would still eat its breakfast, but most other armies would have trouble with it.

Just the model, so you cannot keep the entire unit in DS-Reserve.
But you can field them and re-DS them to the enemy.
My build has the following:
-Nightbringer
1: God Shackle + Veil
2: Solar Staff

I would let the C'tan tank stuff.
With a T8, 4++ and 5+ FNP ánd Solar Staff he will hardly feel anything.
And if he loses a wound, you will use Gaze of Death and regain it before you attack. (After the 6 shots with S5AP3)

I would only take more if I happen to have points left and nothing else to spend them on.